IDEA OR IKEA Posted 18 October 2005 Posted 18 October 2005 I would have everybody would agree that we should kick Racism Out Of Football. Yes and end the thread on that note....
Thracian Posted 18 October 2005 Posted 18 October 2005 I would have everybody would agree that we should kick Racism Out Of Football. Is that all racism or selected racism?
Katy Posted 18 October 2005 Posted 18 October 2005 They have Union Jacks flying in The Old Horse on London Road and nobody has complained as far as I know. The Union Jack is seen as acceptable unfortunately the St Georges Cross is not. My mum lives in Wales (North) and its perfectly fine to dangle your Welsh flag out of your window but its not ok to hang your England flag in England, thats fair! As you enter my mums village the sign says Croeso Llan Ffestiniog and welcome in English underneath which is spray painted out, it also says 'English Scum out' that makes me feel great when I visit my mother although she is Welsh and I am not.
Head Honcho Posted 18 October 2005 Posted 18 October 2005 I would have thought everybody would agree that we should kick Racism Out Of Football. Absolutely! But do we need yet another campaign? The police have the power to arrest and charge anyone accused of Racism, all we need to do is report any racist comments heard within the ground to an Official, When the Police start arresting people they will soon get the message. Racism or Racist chanting will not be tolerated.
Thracian Posted 18 October 2005 Posted 18 October 2005 The Union Jack is seen as acceptable unfortunately the St Georges Cross is not. My mum lives in Wales (North) and its perfectly fine to dangle your Welsh flag out of your window but its not ok to hang your England flag in England, thats fair! As you enter my mums village the sign says Croeso Llan Ffestiniog and welcome in English underneath which is spray painted out, it also says 'English Scum out' that makes me feel great when I visit my mother although she is Welsh and I am not. Yes, the ancient Brits are known for their tolerance. They'll take our money for all they're worth (especially when we're on holiday) but, apart from that, there's a lot of em happy to see the back of us. Very pronounced around Portmadog and a bit hypocritical really. Having said that they really are keen to preseve their culture and I admire them for that. You'll find it very hard to get a job in Wales without speaking Welsh and the signposts reflect their determination to preserve their language. Our politicians, of course, would shit on anything English given half a chance, having already conceded so much to that European monolith full of jobsworths. Does pride in their nation make the Welsh racist?. Some of them, undoubtedly, and that's racist against the English just as much and sometimes more than anyone else, but it doesn't need to be like that at all. Traditions should be maintained, different cultures should have their individual celebrations and idiocyncracies and others sholuld be encouraged to admire and respect them. Is their anything worse in England than the same shops in the same high streets in every city? Individuality should be encouraged and respected not sacrificed on the altar of Corporate convenience and blanket political solutions. It's what makes a country attractive and its what boosts a mighty tourist industry. If only those souless politicians could see it. But what do we get? Centralised sameness. Result: towns and cities that all start to look the alike, that are all run to the same formula. So here's to the Welsh in the fight for their culture. But not to the hypocrisy or their bigotry. A man should be able to fly whatever flag he chooses - but he should also respect where he is. For instance, were I living in Wales (and inclined to fly flags which I am not, generally) then I would fly both the English and the Welsh flags, the one out of pride and the other out of respect for the hospitality of a foreign land.
IDEA OR IKEA Posted 18 October 2005 Posted 18 October 2005 Yes, the ancient Brits are known for their tolerance. Does pride in their nation make the Welsh racist?. Some of them, undoubtedly, and that's racist against the English just as much and sometimes more than anyone else, but it doesn't need to be like that at all. For instance, were I living in Wales (and inclined to fly flags which I am not, generally) then I would fly both the English and the Welsh flags, the one out of pride and the other out of respect for the hospitality of a foreign land. Head, nail, hit
Rincewind Posted 18 October 2005 Posted 18 October 2005 When I said Union Jacks at the Old Horse It was just to make a point that the banning story could be OTT. There are also St George flags displayed. In fact some of them are joint flags with the two symbols on one flag. There is even a Stars and Stripes flag above the bar. The area Highfields/Stoneygate has a high populace of Asian living there. I just think some of the stories are blown out of proportion. My thoughts are that if the minority started displaying the flag themselves for whatever reason they deem fit it would devalue the racists meaning and attitude. Goodness Gracious Me was a fine example of this. It exaggerated the stereotyping attitude that has been around for years. All that Foxes Against Racism is doing is making people aware that racism exists. A black footballer was shown in the picture because they have been the targets over recent years. I don't think the impact would be the same if a white footballer was shown. In fact the campaign would most likely be laughed at and it would collapse. We must put away this 'them and us' 'I'm as much as a victim as they are' ' people are out to get me' mentality and just try to get along with each other. After all we only have one life. The flags are for Trafalgar Day BTW. Yet another day when we Brits celebrate our past war-fairing triumphs over our foreign neighbours.
Head Honcho Posted 18 October 2005 Posted 18 October 2005 When I said Union Jacks at the Old Horse It was just to make a point that the banning story could be OTT. There are also St George flags displayed. In fact some of them are joint flags with the two symbols on one flag. There is even a Stars and Stripes flag above the bar. The area Highfields/Stoneygate has a high populace of Asian living there. I just think some of the stories are blown out of proportion. My thoughts are that if the minority started displaying the flag themselves for whatever reason they deem fit it would devalue the racists meaning and attitude. Goodness Gracious Me was a fine example of this. It exaggerated the stereotyping attitude that has been around for years. All that Foxes Against Racism is doing is making people aware that racism exists. A black footballer was shown in the picture because they have been the targets over recent years. I don't think the impact would be the same if a white footballer was shown. In fact the campaign would most likely be laughed at and it would collapse. We must put away this 'them and us' 'I'm as much as a victim as they are' ' people are out to get me' mentality and just try to get along with each other. After all we only have one life. We all know it exists, these organisations wont let us forget it ffs! How long do we have to kow tow to all these organisations for the appalling behaviour of our ancestors 200 years ago. I know racism still exists, but it always will exist in some form or another Let bygones be bygones and stop using the race card everytime you don't get your own way, that way we'll all get along.
Thracian Posted 18 October 2005 Posted 18 October 2005 When I said Union Jacks at the Old Horse It was just to make a point that the banning story could be OTT. There are also St George flags displayed. In fact some of them are joint flags with the two symbols on one flag. There is even a Stars and Stripes flag above the bar. The area Highfields/Stoneygate has a high populace of Asian living there. I just think some of the stories are blown out of proportion. My thoughts are that if the minority started displaying the flag themselves for whatever reason they deem fit it would devalue the racists meaning and attitude. Goodness Gracious Me was a fine example of this. It exaggerated the stereotyping attitude that has been around for years. All that Foxes Against Racism is doing is making people aware that racism exists. A black footballer was shown in the picture because they have been the targets over recent years. I don't think the impact would be the same if a white footballer was shown. In fact the campaign would most likely be laughed at and it would collapse. We must put away this 'them and us' 'I'm as much as a victim as they are' ' people are out to get me' mentality and just try to get along with each other. After all we only have one life. The flags are for Trafalgar Day BTW. Yet another day when we Brits celebrate our past war-fairing triumphs over our foreign neighbours. Regarding your last paragraph, this country was forever under threat from foreign invaders, be it the French, the Spanish, the Vikings and there were times they would have been scared shitless. Little wonder they celebrated their victories and remembered (at the time and afterwards) all the members of their families who lost their lives. Every nation celebrates its triumphs whether in war, sport, nobel-prizewinning whatever. We don't celebrate our many defeats because, like City fans, they don't lift the spirit. However, on the campaign topic all you say only emphasises to me how much bettter it would have been to have both black and white representation on the image. I was in the Hinckley stand recently when a young black teenager sat together with a young white lad eating a burger and passing the time of time entirely on their own. I thought at the time what an outstanding image of unaffected multi-racial comeraderie it was. Nothing staged, nothing rehearsed and nothing strained. Just two pals enjoying their food and talking football as the match went on.
Head Honcho Posted 18 October 2005 Posted 18 October 2005 Regarding your last paragraph, this country was forever under threat from foreign invaders, be it the French, the Spanish, the Vikings and there were times they would have been scared shitless. Little wonder they celebrated their victories and remembered (at the time and afterwards) all the members of their families who lost their lives. Every nation celebrates its triumphs whether in war, sport, nobel-prizewinning whatever. We don't celebrate our many defeats because, like City fans, they don't lift the spirit. However, on the campaign topic all you say only emphasises to me how much bettter it would have been to have both black and white representation on the image. I was in the Hinckley stand recently when a young black teenager sat together with a young white lad eating a burger and passing the time of time entirely on their own. I thought at the time what an outstanding image of unaffected multi-racial comeraderie it was. Nothing staged, nothing rehearsed and nothing strained. Just two pals enjoying their food and talking football as the match went on. This is typical every second of the day up and down the country, although if you listen to the CRE you wouldn't think so. Did they need an Anti Racism day to become friends! No they did not.
Rincewind Posted 18 October 2005 Posted 18 October 2005 Sorry I was being a little tongue in cheek about the victory celebrations. When I think back to my schooldays and the history lessons of how great we were in these campaigns I sometimes have to smile cos as I've grown older I've learnt that like all wars there are many bad as well as good things to come out of it. I agree with the picture in a way. Children do not have any thoughts like their elders. I wonder what sort of parents those playmates have though? Are they the sort who would say 'I told you not to play with that sort, they are trouble.' or put them on the birthday party list? It may have made a great picture but it is up to the older more mature of us to set an example and not to install prejudices into their minds. A picture of slush and Swissfox walking with their arms around each other would do a world of good for this forum as well.
Fez of Mahrez Posted 18 October 2005 Posted 18 October 2005 In my opinion, Leicester fans have real cause to be extremely proud of this aspect of our club. We have had to endure decades of racist chanting from opposition supporters with, I would venture, far fewer examples of similar behaviour in the other direction. The marketing of this sort of anti-racism initiative can be a little naive. We don't need a picture of an Asian bloke wearing a Leicester shirt to realise that our club is among the best there is for welcoming supporters of all different backgrounds, surely? I feel that a far more effective picture could be taken by going out to the training ground and getting one of the players. After all, this is a picture we see every weekend - whites, blacks, Englishmen, Scotsmen, Welshmen, Irishmen, Aussies, a Canadian, not to mention blokes from Surinam, Guinea and Ghana. Football Against Racism is a positive initiative and should be viewed as such, not torn to shreds by bitter white people who 99.99 times out of 100 have never had to put up with racial abuse at football matches.
Head Honcho Posted 18 October 2005 Posted 18 October 2005 In my opinion, Leicester fans have real cause to be extremely proud of this aspect of our club. We have had to endure decades of racist chanting from opposition supporters with, I would venture, far fewer examples of similar behaviour in the other direction. The marketing of this sort of anti-racism initiative can be a little naive. We don't need a picture of an Asian bloke wearing a Leicester shirt to realise that our club is among the best there is for welcoming supporters of all different backgrounds, surely? I feel that a far more effective picture could be taken by going out to the training ground and getting one of the players. After all, this is a picture we see every weekend - whites, blacks, Englishmen, Scotsmen, Welshmen, Irishmen, Aussies, a Canadian, not to mention blokes from Surinam, Guinea and Ghana. Football Against Racism is a positive initiative and should be viewed as such, not torn to shreds by bitter white people who 99.99 times out of 100 have never had to put up with racial abuse at football matches. My Beef is not with the initiative which as you say is a little naive. My Beef is with all these Anti-Racism Lobbyists who would have us think that we have a major Racism problem in this Country. We do not! It is very minor compared to much of Europe. If the press started reporting on how well we do get on together it would be a step in the right direction, but then that doesn't sell newspapers does it!
CasinoGee Posted 18 October 2005 Posted 18 October 2005 At every Vale home game where we play a team from a town/city with a large number of non-whites, there a chants of "Your just a town full of pakis!". To me that's a pretty big problem.
Head Honcho Posted 18 October 2005 Posted 18 October 2005 At every Vale home game where we play a team from a town/city with a large number of non-whites, there a chants of "Your just a town full of pakis!". To me that's a pretty big problem. So you reported it to the Police i take it?
Gamesmaster Posted 18 October 2005 Posted 18 October 2005 well i thought tonights kick racism out of football was a disapointment. i didnt see any thing different to a normal matchday, apart from a collection for the earthquake, which is what Lush explained.
CasinoGee Posted 19 October 2005 Posted 19 October 2005 So you reported it to the Police i take it? I would've done as many other Vale fans did, if I had been to either game. The fact that I live 200 miles away kinda stops that.Oh, and apparently the stewards didn't care about it, but just said they would tell the police.
Head Honcho Posted 19 October 2005 Posted 19 October 2005 I would've done as many other Vale fans did, if I had been to either game. The fact that I live 200 miles away kinda stops that. Oh, and apparently the stewards didn't care about it, but just said they would tell the police. you mean you were not at the matches. You are trying to convince me of something based on hearsay!
Babylon Posted 19 October 2005 Posted 19 October 2005 There isn't a problem with racially motivated attacks on white people in England Are you kidding me!!! I've seen more fights with groups of asians attacking single white men than I have the other way round while out in Leicester!!
CasinoGee Posted 19 October 2005 Posted 19 October 2005 you mean you were not at the matches. You are trying to convince me of something based on hearsay! Hmm, how about club statements, hearing it on the radio (it was very clear) etc...Why are you trying to concinve yourself so badly that white people are never racist?! There are just as many racists whatever race you look at (yes, we are all equal, I know that might be hard for you to come to terms with), it's just certain circumstances bring it out more. Surely involving people of different races can only be beneficial for ball parties. If, per say, asians are more involved with football (a predominately white and black sport in this country) then they too have the oppertunity to understand people from a more "English" "culture" as well as the other way around.
Head Honcho Posted 19 October 2005 Posted 19 October 2005 Police apathy is the biggest obstacle in tackling Racism at City games. They have powers of arrest but 99 times out of a 100 they don't or won't use them. Leicester City pay a lot of money for the Police presence, and should be asking why they don't respond to complaints about racism from the fan's. Please don't say they do, because i have complained on several occasions, all to no avail.
Willis Posted 19 October 2005 Posted 19 October 2005 Are you kidding me!!! I've seen more fights with groups of asians attacking single white men than I have the other way round while out in Leicester!! Well maybe, but you've got to ask who or what started the confrontation. While overt racism is in decline (no more rivers of blood, thankyou Mr Powell), I think racism is still a major problem ( I come from Stoke and some attitudes there are positively archaic). And yeah, it exists from ethnic minority groups to whites, but in the main, it is the ethnic minorities who are discriminated agianst. That is why campaigns such as Kick... exist. Where there is racism from the minority groups, it is probably largely from a sense of being victims of frustration, social exclusion and discrimination. Campaigns like these seek to boost inclusion and break down barriers. This in turn can reduce racism from all groups. That i presume is the aim. However that's not to say some people are not just tw@s and will always be prejudiced. I think it is a little crass for people to come on and say "what about us poor whites", when we are the prominent "group" in this country. Do we suffer discrimination on the same level as ethnic groups? No of course not. We are more socially aspirational, we get the best jobs, we get paid more, we don't get attacked for looking like terrorists, we don't get scapegoated if we are seeking asylum...the list goes on. To be honest, walking through Brixton and feeling a bit vulnerable when some huge black guy offers me weed is not comparable. Have there been any cases like Stephen Lawrence in which a white guy was the victim of a racist attack and institutional racism? Nope Time to get some perspective and stop complaining about campaigns and groups that actually try and do a little good
CasinoGee Posted 19 October 2005 Posted 19 October 2005 Stoke is pretty bad, the BNP is quite big there and a lot of Vale fans I know are quite concerned. I don't know about the lardy Stoke fans though
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