Iran Vs Portugal

[Alf Bentley]

16 minutes ago, MattP said:

Didn't he always say a piss was a terrible thing to waste?

 

Reminds me of another of my Dad's many sayings: "He wouldn't give you the shteam off his piss!"

[Max Wall]

14 hours ago, Max Wall said:

 

Call me a cynic, it's my age. Having seen American culture increasingly take over here. I expect a point in the future where football is played in 4 quarters with ad breaks and some twat like Chris Martin singing on the pitch in the intervals.

First school proms and trick or treat, overuse and misuse of the word literally, next four 22 minute quarters.

 

 

14 hours ago, Max Wall said:

I agree Col. I suppose that's my point really. Americans (USA) routinely used to describe football as boring because there wasn't enough goals or incident. That's why the American leagues for years refused to have draws and used to decide games all square at full time by shoot-offs from 35 yards. They needed an ending those with minimal wit would accept and some artificial excitement at the end of the game.. 

Far from clarifying incidents, VAR has lead to some extraordinary decisions.

I used to be amazed in the USA when they whooped and hollered in cinemas and stood and applauded the saccharine endings but I've actually started to see similar things here in the last 15 years.

We follow the USA whether people like it or not. That does not bode well for football as we know it.

 

 

13 hours ago, Max Wall said:

The inconsistency is the problem. The last of those decisions you mention only serves to highlight the problem. Never a pen.

It's easy to focus on your own team but look at what Kane had to put up with at corners,other players and other teams have had to  put up with similar, yet they stop the game to give that pile of shite penalty tonight.

 

 

1 hour ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

Don't really see what that has to do with it, direct involvement in clubs is something different to what we've been discussing, or at least what I thought we were discussing. The PL attracts world wide interest and owners of clubs come from all over the shop and its no surprise to American influence in big clubs (but then there are British franchises popping up in the MLS conversely) . We still have our pyramid system, rules, there are more sponsors  but nothing on a American level, we still play in halfs have capped away ticket prices and 3pm Saturday kick offs are blocked from TV coverage, game 39 got kicked into touch as soon as it was suggested and you can still draw a game without some silly over time periods. You could argue in 30 years time in may be different as Amazons experiment could  be the start of something I don't particularly want to see but for me at this moment in time the PL is still very British and has made money without it's product being compromised by American sporting ideology.  

 

It was more the snooker and darts than boxing as boxing is a global sport but even then we do still do things differently to them in terms of what fights we put on, how much we charge for them (very significant difference)  and how much time is given to on air advertising. And Eddie Hearn is actually making decent in roads into the American boxing market himself but this is a different story. Again it is not about direct American involvement in snooker or darts it is the business model used to make money and it remains very different to a typical American sporting model. 

 

Not that a particularly think there is anything wrong with the way the Americans run their sports anyway it's horses for courses. 

 

VAR- yes I agree and the game last night was a demonstration on what needs to be avoided, gaps in play were to long and as I said elsewhere I'm not a fan on pens being given 90 sec 2 mins after the incident and play has resumed.

It possibly is different to what you thought we were discussing. That has been a thread throughout our replies to each other as I didn't bring up business plans and models. My initial post above simply mentions a cultural change and Americanisms increasingly taking over here. That will spill over into sport, hence my statement that I expect 4 quarters to be played at some point in the future. You even seem to accept Amazons involvement is likely to lead to change that you won't like.

 

There are 1000's of examples of American culture taking over here, but lets go to a trivial and base examples for the sake of ease. Given that I work with quite a few young people (where the influence of the USA is at it's most potent), let's start with language.

 

Two, suburban, white, stockbrokers sons from Surrey calling each other 'G' and 'Blood'.

The continual use of the word literally (mostly used incorrectly) This has it's origins in 90's American sitcoms and has become an epidemic in this country. You can see it on this site every day.

The same can be said of many British youngsters use of the phrase 'my bad' these days. This term has it's origins in 'pick up' basketball when a mistake is made.

How many adverts do you see for cars these days that will mention SUV or other similar Americanisms that weren't used here even a decade ago.

 

Let's go for child/teen culture next.

We never had trick or treat here, in fact, many will remember when we didn't have halloween. It was never a British thing at all. We had Guy Fawkes night. Everything else is adopted American culture.

We never had school proms here, where parents are forced to hire ever more ridiculous and costly transport to get their kids to the prom and impress their own kids and other parents. Not to mention ridiculously expensive prom dresses and the like. This is an example of the 'look at me' or 'look how much money we have' culture so prevalent in the USA

 

These are all rather unimportant examples but part of the wider issue as I see it and they are examples nonetheless. American culture is taking over here, not just in language but in everything and it will do so in sport. Especially when you consider the upcoming Amazon involvement (as you stated).

The Americans have tried to change the sport before, as I mentioned, with 35 yard shoot offs. That didn't work in the 70's yet they still brought it back and tried it again in the 90's. Do you honestly think, as American involvement (and monetary involvement especially) in football increases, they won't try to bring in more changes to suit their agenda, I don't. Just 18 months ago we had an Charlie Stillitano saying 'no one wants to see Leicester in the Champions league'. Opprobrium rained down on him on that occasion but Americans don't do losing well and they will try again. 

 

If you look at my OP, I was simply bemoaning what I see as a probable shift of football towards multi break sports like baseball and American football (which I believe will happen eventually). That stop/start 2nd half last night is just the beginning.

With regards to business models and blueprints, if you follow the thread, you brought these things up, not me. The fact is, I still don't agree with you and I believe all money making on sport is based on the American blueprint.  They were the first to do it on a massive scale and those models are followed regardless of certain changes and updates to suit whichever audience/sport/country you are serving.

 

Let's examine your examples of 'British' sports untouched by American culture Can you honestly tell me that the way Hearn has darts players coming into the hall like some kind of gladiators is not American influenced? In your mind that's a British approach to sport is it? I also wouldn't be surprised if snookers latest idea, the one frame shootout tournament implemented by Hearn has it's origins in American pool though I don't know that for sure. I get your point about boxing but there's a reason why Hearn has made some in roads, they have no choice over there, boxing has been dying on it's arse and generally on the wane in America since the 80's. They still have ridiculous mega fights, charging punters pay per view for idiotic match ups (pay per view, another American 'invention' that's now an institution here) but they don't rule the sport in the way they used to, especially the coveted heavyweight title, so interest in the USA isn't so big. 

 

As for ticket prices, maybe you're younger than me but I used to go to hundreds of concerts in my teens and early 20's. Concerts were always inexpensive. The cost of concert tickets has absolutely exploded over the last 3 decades. Whilst we don't pay as much as the Americans (yet), we do now pay a lot for any event in comparative terms. 

 

I think the USA has an ever increasing influence in everything we do, more so in the generation coming up behind. You don't agree with regards to sport (maybe you don't agree with regards to culture either). As you said, we can't all agree on everything.

I sincerely hope you're right with regards to sport. At least for the next 25 years or so. After that, I don't give a toss tbh as I won't be around. 

 

With regards to VAR and for the sake of clarity, in my 2nd post I made a statement about VAR leading to extraordinary decisions. I didn't really word that very well. I was really referring to the decisions it was there to make but wasn't used for. The best example being the wrestling to the floor of Kane during the Panama match (though it's happened in other teams matches also). It was then used last night on a much less obvious situation and they still managed to come up with what most people think is an obvious mistake. 

[Manwell Pablo]

2 hours ago, Max Wall said:

 

 

 

It possibly is different to what you thought we were discussing. That has been a thread throughout our replies to each other as I didn't bring up business plans and models. My initial post above simply mentions a cultural change and Americanisms increasingly taking over here. That will spill over into sport, hence my statement that I expect 4 quarters to be played at some point in the future. You even seem to accept Amazons involvement is likely to lead to change that you won't like.

 

There are 1000's of examples of American culture taking over here, but lets go to a trivial and base examples for the sake of ease. Given that I work with quite a few young people (where the influence of the USA is at it's most potent), let's start with language.

 

Two, suburban, white, stockbrokers sons from Surrey calling each other 'G' and 'Blood'.

The continual use of the word literally (mostly used incorrectly) This has it's origins in 90's American sitcoms and has become an epidemic in this country. You can see it on this site every day.

The same can be said of many British youngsters use of the phrase 'my bad' these days. This term has it's origins in 'pick up' basketball when a mistake is made.

How many adverts do you see for cars these days that will mention SUV or other similar Americanisms that weren't used here even a decade ago.

 

Let's go for child/teen culture next.

We never had trick or treat here, in fact, many will remember when we didn't have halloween. It was never a British thing at all. We had Guy Fawkes night. Everything else is adopted American culture.

We never had school proms here, where parents are forced to hire ever more ridiculous and costly transport to get their kids to the prom and impress their own kids and other parents. Not to mention ridiculously expensive prom dresses and the like. This is an example of the 'look at me' or 'look how much money we have' culture so prevalent in the USA

 

These are all rather unimportant examples but part of the wider issue as I see it and they are examples nonetheless. American culture is taking over here, not just in language but in everything and it will do so in sport. Especially when you consider the upcoming Amazon involvement (as you stated).

The Americans have tried to change the sport before, as I mentioned, with 35 yard shoot offs. That didn't work in the 70's yet they still brought it back and tried it again in the 90's. Do you honestly think, as American involvement (and monetary involvement especially) in football increases, they won't try to bring in more changes to suit their agenda, I don't. Just 18 months ago we had an Charlie Stillitano saying 'no one wants to see Leicester in the Champions league'. Opprobrium rained down on him on that occasion but Americans don't do losing well and they will try again. 

 

If you look at my OP, I was simply bemoaning what I see as a probable shift of football towards multi break sports like baseball and American football (which I believe will happen eventually). That stop/start 2nd half last night is just the beginning.

With regards to business models and blueprints, if you follow the thread, you brought these things up, not me. The fact is, I still don't agree with you and I believe all money making on sport is based on the American blueprint.  They were the first to do it on a massive scale and those models are followed regardless of certain changes and updates to suit whichever audience/sport/country you are serving.

 

Let's examine your examples of 'British' sports untouched by American culture Can you honestly tell me that the way Hearn has darts players coming into the hall like some kind of gladiators is not American influenced? In your mind that's a British approach to sport is it? I also wouldn't be surprised if snookers latest idea, the one frame shootout tournament implemented by Hearn has it's origins in American pool though I don't know that for sure. I get your point about boxing but there's a reason why Hearn has made some in roads, they have no choice over there, boxing has been dying on it's arse and generally on the wane in America since the 80's. They still have ridiculous mega fights, charging punters pay per view for idiotic match ups (pay per view, another American 'invention' that's now an institution here) but they don't rule the sport in the way they used to, especially the coveted heavyweight title, so interest in the USA isn't so big. 

 

As for ticket prices, maybe you're younger than me but I used to go to hundreds of concerts in my teens and early 20's. Concerts were always inexpensive. The cost of concert tickets has absolutely exploded over the last 3 decades. Whilst we don't pay as much as the Americans (yet), we do now pay a lot for any event in comparative terms. 

 

I think the USA has an ever increasing influence in everything we do, more so in the generation coming up behind. You don't agree with regards to sport (maybe you don't agree with regards to culture either). As you said, we can't all agree on everything.

I sincerely hope you're right with regards to sport. At least for the next 25 years or so. After that, I don't give a toss tbh as I won't be around. 

 

With regards to VAR and for the sake of clarity, in my 2nd post I made a statement about VAR leading to extraordinary decisions. I didn't really word that very well. I was really referring to the decisions it was there to make but wasn't used for. The best example being the wrestling to the floor of Kane during the Panama match (though it's happened in other teams matches also). It was then used last night on a much less obvious situation and they still managed to come up with what most people think is an obvious mistake. 

 

It's clearly a subject you feel very strongly about and I've said everything I have to say really  and you make some valid points however I think there is a big difference between celebrating Halloween and small bits of American slang leaking in to the language, and football turning into something that resembles the NFL, personally.

 

Pretty sure the shootout pre dates Barry Hearns involvement in snooker originally although I believe he was responsible for bringing it back. It's symptomatic of a lot of sports attempting to increase interest in sport by shortening it or dumbing versions of it which I'm not sure is strictly and US problem as much as a western world problem. Technology seems to have made everyone much less patient.

 

 

Edited 26 June 2018 by Manwell Pablo

[Max Wall]

9 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

It's clearly a subject you feel very strongly about and I've said everything I have to say really  and you make some valid points however I think there is a big difference between celebrating Halloween and small bits of American slang leaking in to the language, and football turning into something that resembles the NFL, personally.

 

Pretty sure the shootout pre dates Barry Hearns involvement in snooker originally although I believe he was responsible for bringing it back. It's symptomatic of a lot of sports attempting to increase interest in sport by shortening it or dumbing versions of it which I'm not sure is strictly and US problem as much as a western world problem. Technology seems to have made everyone much less patient.

 

 

 

I did say those were trivial examples made to keep the post from reaching Tolstoy type length tbf. They are far from the only things.

Yeah, I do feel really strongly about it  How did you guess?

 

The final point you've made I probably agree with in it's entirety to be fair.

However, when the first quarter of a football match finishes after 22 minutes at some point in the future, I'll come looking for you again though. 

Edited 26 June 2018 by Max Wall

[Guest Col city fan]

4 hours ago, Max Wall said:

 

 

 

It possibly is different to what you thought we were discussing. That has been a thread throughout our replies to each other as I didn't bring up business plans and models. My initial post above simply mentions a cultural change and Americanisms increasingly taking over here. That will spill over into sport, hence my statement that I expect 4 quarters to be played at some point in the future. You even seem to accept Amazons involvement is likely to lead to change that you won't like.

 

There are 1000's of examples of American culture taking over here, but lets go to a trivial and base examples for the sake of ease. Given that I work with quite a few young people (where the influence of the USA is at it's most potent), let's start with language.

 

Two, suburban, white, stockbrokers sons from Surrey calling each other 'G' and 'Blood'.

The continual use of the word literally (mostly used incorrectly) This has it's origins in 90's American sitcoms and has become an epidemic in this country. You can see it on this site every day.

The same can be said of many British youngsters use of the phrase 'my bad' these days. This term has it's origins in 'pick up' basketball when a mistake is made.

How many adverts do you see for cars these days that will mention SUV or other similar Americanisms that weren't used here even a decade ago.

 

Let's go for child/teen culture next.

We never had trick or treat here, in fact, many will remember when we didn't have halloween. It was never a British thing at all. We had Guy Fawkes night. Everything else is adopted American culture.

We never had school proms here, where parents are forced to hire ever more ridiculous and costly transport to get their kids to the prom and impress their own kids and other parents. Not to mention ridiculously expensive prom dresses and the like. This is an example of the 'look at me' or 'look how much money we have' culture so prevalent in the USA

 

These are all rather unimportant examples but part of the wider issue as I see it and they are examples nonetheless. American culture is taking over here, not just in language but in everything and it will do so in sport. Especially when you consider the upcoming Amazon involvement (as you stated).

The Americans have tried to change the sport before, as I mentioned, with 35 yard shoot offs. That didn't work in the 70's yet they still brought it back and tried it again in the 90's. Do you honestly think, as American involvement (and monetary involvement especially) in football increases, they won't try to bring in more changes to suit their agenda, I don't. Just 18 months ago we had an Charlie Stillitano saying 'no one wants to see Leicester in the Champions league'. Opprobrium rained down on him on that occasion but Americans don't do losing well and they will try again. 

 

If you look at my OP, I was simply bemoaning what I see as a probable shift of football towards multi break sports like baseball and American football (which I believe will happen eventually). That stop/start 2nd half last night is just the beginning.

With regards to business models and blueprints, if you follow the thread, you brought these things up, not me. The fact is, I still don't agree with you and I believe all money making on sport is based on the American blueprint.  They were the first to do it on a massive scale and those models are followed regardless of certain changes and updates to suit whichever audience/sport/country you are serving.

 

Let's examine your examples of 'British' sports untouched by American culture Can you honestly tell me that the way Hearn has darts players coming into the hall like some kind of gladiators is not American influenced? In your mind that's a British approach to sport is it? I also wouldn't be surprised if snookers latest idea, the one frame shootout tournament implemented by Hearn has it's origins in American pool though I don't know that for sure. I get your point about boxing but there's a reason why Hearn has made some in roads, they have no choice over there, boxing has been dying on it's arse and generally on the wane in America since the 80's. They still have ridiculous mega fights, charging punters pay per view for idiotic match ups (pay per view, another American 'invention' that's now an institution here) but they don't rule the sport in the way they used to, especially the coveted heavyweight title, so interest in the USA isn't so big. 

 

As for ticket prices, maybe you're younger than me but I used to go to hundreds of concerts in my teens and early 20's. Concerts were always inexpensive. The cost of concert tickets has absolutely exploded over the last 3 decades. Whilst we don't pay as much as the Americans (yet), we do now pay a lot for any event in comparative terms. 

 

I think the USA has an ever increasing influence in everything we do, more so in the generation coming up behind. You don't agree with regards to sport (maybe you don't agree with regards to culture either). As you said, we can't all agree on everything.

I sincerely hope you're right with regards to sport. At least for the next 25 years or so. After that, I don't give a toss tbh as I won't be around. 

 

With regards to VAR and for the sake of clarity, in my 2nd post I made a statement about VAR leading to extraordinary decisions. I didn't really word that very well. I was really referring to the decisions it was there to make but wasn't used for. The best example being the wrestling to the floor of Kane during the Panama match (though it's happened in other teams matches also). It was then used last night on a much less obvious situation and they still managed to come up with what most people think is an obvious mistake. 

 

[Leeds Fox]

4 hours ago, Max Wall said:

 

 

 

It possibly is different to what you thought we were discussing. That has been a thread throughout our replies to each other as I didn't bring up business plans and models. My initial post above simply mentions a cultural change and Americanisms increasingly taking over here. That will spill over into sport, hence my statement that I expect 4 quarters to be played at some point in the future. You even seem to accept Amazons involvement is likely to lead to change that you won't like.

 

There are 1000's of examples of American culture taking over here, but lets go to a trivial and base examples for the sake of ease. Given that I work with quite a few young people (where the influence of the USA is at it's most potent), let's start with language.

 

Two, suburban, white, stockbrokers sons from Surrey calling each other 'G' and 'Blood'.

The continual use of the word literally (mostly used incorrectly) This has it's origins in 90's American sitcoms and has become an epidemic in this country. You can see it on this site every day.

The same can be said of many British youngsters use of the phrase 'my bad' these days. This term has it's origins in 'pick up' basketball when a mistake is made.

How many adverts do you see for cars these days that will mention SUV or other similar Americanisms that weren't used here even a decade ago.

 

Let's go for child/teen culture next.

We never had trick or treat here, in fact, many will remember when we didn't have halloween. It was never a British thing at all. We had Guy Fawkes night. Everything else is adopted American culture.

We never had school proms here, where parents are forced to hire ever more ridiculous and costly transport to get their kids to the prom and impress their own kids and other parents. Not to mention ridiculously expensive prom dresses and the like. This is an example of the 'look at me' or 'look how much money we have' culture so prevalent in the USA

 

These are all rather unimportant examples but part of the wider issue as I see it and they are examples nonetheless. American culture is taking over here, not just in language but in everything and it will do so in sport. Especially when you consider the upcoming Amazon involvement (as you stated).

The Americans have tried to change the sport before, as I mentioned, with 35 yard shoot offs. That didn't work in the 70's yet they still brought it back and tried it again in the 90's. Do you honestly think, as American involvement (and monetary involvement especially) in football increases, they won't try to bring in more changes to suit their agenda, I don't. Just 18 months ago we had an Charlie Stillitano saying 'no one wants to see Leicester in the Champions league'. Opprobrium rained down on him on that occasion but Americans don't do losing well and they will try again. 

 

If you look at my OP, I was simply bemoaning what I see as a probable shift of football towards multi break sports like baseball and American football (which I believe will happen eventually). That stop/start 2nd half last night is just the beginning.

With regards to business models and blueprints, if you follow the thread, you brought these things up, not me. The fact is, I still don't agree with you and I believe all money making on sport is based on the American blueprint.  They were the first to do it on a massive scale and those models are followed regardless of certain changes and updates to suit whichever audience/sport/country you are serving.

 

Let's examine your examples of 'British' sports untouched by American culture Can you honestly tell me that the way Hearn has darts players coming into the hall like some kind of gladiators is not American influenced? In your mind that's a British approach to sport is it? I also wouldn't be surprised if snookers latest idea, the one frame shootout tournament implemented by Hearn has it's origins in American pool though I don't know that for sure. I get your point about boxing but there's a reason why Hearn has made some in roads, they have no choice over there, boxing has been dying on it's arse and generally on the wane in America since the 80's. They still have ridiculous mega fights, charging punters pay per view for idiotic match ups (pay per view, another American 'invention' that's now an institution here) but they don't rule the sport in the way they used to, especially the coveted heavyweight title, so interest in the USA isn't so big. 

 

As for ticket prices, maybe you're younger than me but I used to go to hundreds of concerts in my teens and early 20's. Concerts were always inexpensive. The cost of concert tickets has absolutely exploded over the last 3 decades. Whilst we don't pay as much as the Americans (yet), we do now pay a lot for any event in comparative terms. 

 

I think the USA has an ever increasing influence in everything we do, more so in the generation coming up behind. You don't agree with regards to sport (maybe you don't agree with regards to culture either). As you said, we can't all agree on everything.

I sincerely hope you're right with regards to sport. At least for the next 25 years or so. After that, I don't give a toss tbh as I won't be around. 

 

With regards to VAR and for the sake of clarity, in my 2nd post I made a statement about VAR leading to extraordinary decisions. I didn't really word that very well. I was really referring to the decisions it was there to make but wasn't used for. The best example being the wrestling to the floor of Kane during the Panama match (though it's happened in other teams matches also). It was then used last night on a much less obvious situation and they still managed to come up with what most people think is an obvious mistake. 

 

Absolutely no idea where that came from but great post. 

[Iran]

9 hours ago, stripeyfox said:

That would have been some moment if he'd scored the winner at the end.!!!

 

Yes, and I genuinely do feel sorry for him given the unfortunate timing of it happening. I bet he feels more gutted than we did as fans, but we are still proud of him and his efforts regardless!