Sobering Thought for the Sack Him Brigade

[Isopen]

If you had a free choice of the ideal person to take over, many City fans would say MON.

So as a reminder of the consequences of a management change MON's early record was:

1. Grimsby Town 2 v 2 Leicester City 23 December 1995

2. Millwall 1 v 1 Leicester City 01 January 1996

3. Leicester City 0 v 0 Manchester City 06 January 1996

4. Stoke City 1 v 0 Leicester 13 January 1996

5. Manchester City 5 v 0 Leicester City 17 January 1996

6. Leicester City 0 v 0 Sunderland 21 January 1996

7. Leicester City 1 v 1 Luton Town 03 February 1996

8. Portsmouth 2 v 1 Leicester City 10 February 1996

9. Leicester 1 v 1 Port Vale 17 February 1996

10. Wolves 2 v 3 Leicester City 21 February 1996

So no win for 10 games, so as tomorrow would be too early, the same now would equal no win until March and leave 10 League games left.

MON's next six then read

11. Reading 1 v 1 Leicester City 24 February 1996

12. Leicester City 0 v 0 Derby County 28 February 1996

13. Ipswich Town 4 v 2 Leicester City 03 March 1996

14. Leicester City 2 v 1 grimsby Town 09 March 1996

15. Leicester City 0 v 2 Ipswich Town 13 March 1996

16. Oldham Athletic 3 v 1 Leicester City 16 March 1996

So only 1 more victory before then beating Millwall in match 17 and then the famous loss against Sheff Utd when fans turned on the board and him and things started to happen for him.

So 3 wins in 18.

Change does not give any certainty to an improvement in fortunes

[Hitesh]

True, any change would be a gamble but i think that CL has taken the club as far as possible. I think he has a decent long term strategy but he isnt concentrating on the situation at the moment which is getting desperate! I also think that he doesnt have the motivational skills to and the power in the dressing room. Thats why he needs to go. We need someone who will install discipline and grind out the results!

[Bert]

Face it - he won't quit and the board aren't going to sack him.... yet.

[Ultra]

That proves nothing.

I could quote Peter Taylor's record after 16 games when we were THIRD in the Premiership. It doesn't mean anything because it wasn't his team and as he shipped players out and brought in vastly inferior replacements the team went into decline.

Levein has had 56 games in charge, from which we have gained just 62 points. He has also had ample opportunity to build his own side.

That side is currently performing a lot worse than the one he inherited.

Does he have what it takes to bring about an improvement? I very much doubt it.

Unless the board are brave enough to swing the axe before it's too late, we had better prepare for visits to Hartleppol and Colchester! :eek:

[The People's Hero]

That proves nothing.

I could quote Peter Taylor's record after 16 games when we were THIRD in the Premiership. It doesn't mean anything because it wasn't his team and as he shipped players out and brought in vastly inferior replacements the team went into decline.

Levein has had 56 games in charge, from which we have gained just 62 points. He has also had ample opportunity to build his own side.

That side is currently performing a lot worse than the one he inherited.

Does he have what it takes to bring about an improvement? I very much doubt it.

Unless the board are brave enough to swing the axe before it's too late, we had better prepare for visits to Hartleppol and Colchester! :eek:

Very true.

For every example suggesting that one thing is true, there is another which suggests the exact opposite.

In my opinion, Levein has lost it. He has the look, sound and manner of a beaten man. He's out of ideas and he doesn't know what to do about it. Now, it might be the case that if we bring someone else in, they don't turn it round... but that doesn't mean we should stick with Levein because things just aren't getting better, are they?

In football, comparisons are often very unfair and I think that is the case in this example.

[ROSSINDA]

If you had a free choice of the ideal person to take over, many City fans would say MON.

So as a reminder of the consequences of a management change MON's early record was:

1. Grimsby Town 2 v 2 Leicester City 23 December 1995

2. Millwall 1 v 1 Leicester City 01 January 1996

3. Leicester City 0 v 0 Manchester City 06 January 1996

4. Stoke City 1 v 0 Leicester 13 January 1996

5. Manchester City 5 v 0 Leicester City 17 January 1996

6. Leicester City 0 v 0 Sunderland 21 January 1996

7. Leicester City 1 v 1 Luton Town 03 February 1996

8. Portsmouth 2 v 1 Leicester City 10 February 1996

9. Leicester 1 v 1 Port Vale 17 February 1996

10. Wolves 2 v 3 Leicester City 21 February 1996

So no win for 10 games, so as tomorrow would be too early, the same now would equal no win until March and leave 10 League games left.

MON's next six then read

11. Reading 1 v 1 Leicester City 24 February 1996

12. Leicester City 0 v 0 Derby County 28 February 1996

13. Ipswich Town 4 v 2 Leicester City 03 March 1996

14. Leicester City 2 v 1 grimsby Town 09 March 1996

15. Leicester City 0 v 2 Ipswich Town 13 March 1996

16. Oldham Athletic 3 v 1 Leicester City 16 March 1996

So only 1 more victory before then beating Millwall in match 17 and then the famous loss against Sheff Utd when fans turned on the board and him and things started to happen for him.

So 3 wins in 18.

Change does not give any certainty to an improvement in fortunes

Good research and correct the facts and the history is/are in black and white, but I make the total time around 3 ½ to 4 months, than as we all know things did get better (oh those where the days) now C L has been her over a year and WE ARE NO BETTER (Sorry to shout) in fact we are worse off than when M A did the decent and noble thing and parted company with our great club. So to put it bluntly C L doesn’t even show any signs of improvement and INO over a year is long enough.

[City Fan]

Those stats were 10 years ago, this is now, they mean absolutely nothing.

[george_holmes]

I will cry if we stoop as low as forest

[Isopen]

Those stats were 10 years ago, this is now, they mean absolutely nothing.

Still stand regardless of time.

The point being made is that it is easy to sack (if you want to spend potential transfer money in compo) but it gives no certainty that a new man can improve things quickly

Ok want a recent comparison - Megson was employed at Forest last season in early Jan - he didn't save them !

[Ultra]

But nobody's saying that Gary Megson should take over here!

[The People's Hero]

No, I don't want Megson.

He'd do a better job than Levein though, I expect.

[Ultra]

His record at the copse to date doesn't suggest that!

[The People's Hero]

His record at the copse to date doesn't suggest that!

Hmm.. he's bound to be 'luckier' than Levein though.

Levein is the unluckiest manager in the world. When we win, it's skill obviously, when we lose, it's misfortune.

[Isopen]

But nobody's saying that Gary Megson should take over here!

Would hope not, it was just another example of a change of manager not changing a clubs fortune in the timeframe we face.

Many were saying Burley would be a great choice, but he has managed 3 defeats in 3 games so far for Saints

[The People's Hero]

Well if eighteen months in to his reign and Southampton are just off the bottom three, I expect Burley would quit/be sacked.

I think three games in, it's a bit soon to criticise him when you're so quick to defend Levein.

[Anish]

If you want to compare MON's early record to Levein, then at least compare their records at the same time - i.e. you've said what MON's record was after his first 18 games, you should compare that with Levein's record after his first 18 games.

Then compare the two's respective records thereafter.

I don't buy your argument Isopen, MON had a poor start but turned it around. Levein had a poor start too, but has made it worse more than a year after his appointment

[ithuriel]

whatever happens now we are in deep trouble.

we need to double our games won column but with six games less remaining than what we needed to get five wins.

[Ultra]

But the bloke at Millwall has managed five points in 3 games since taking over, and took them off the bottom of the league.

So sometimes change CAN be for the better!

[ithuriel]

shame they let cotterill go to burnley.

[Isopen]

Well if eighteen months in to his reign and Southampton are just off the bottom three, I expect Burley would quit/be sacked.

I think three games in, it's a bit soon to criticise him when you're so quick to defend Levein.

I'm not criticising him, I agree its too soon, but that's the point - how quickly would you expect a new manager to be installed & make a real difference = that timeframe could be too late for us this season

[Isopen]

But the bloke at Millwall has managed five points in 3 games since taking over, and took them off the bottom of the league.

So sometimes change CAN be for the better!

Not the same situation, unless you are suggesting one of the existing staff takes over.

A new man in needs to get to know the players, Tuttle already knows what they are capable of

[Isopen]

If you want to compare MON's early record to Levein, then at least compare their records at the same time - i.e. you've said what MON's record was after his first 18 games, you should compare that with Levein's record after his first 18 games.

Then compare the two's respective records thereafter.

I don't buy your argument Isopen, MON had a poor start but turned it around. Levein had a poor start too, but has made it worse more than a year after his appointment

Not comparing their 2 records - I'm looking at it from the perspective of what a new manager can be expected to deliver in his early months, MON didn't set the world on fire initially, so how confident are we that someone else could?

[ivarti]

I'm not criticising him, I agree its too soon, but that's the point - how quickly would you expect a new manager to be installed & make a real difference = that timeframe could be too late for us this season

The problem isn't the time, it's what CL does to his team and what signings he's done. He is now in search for a new striker after signing three allready. He shuffles the team around and he doesn't have a momentum in his build up. Players are thrown in and out and there is no sign of any progress at all. It's gone a long time since he came here and he hasn't sorted out a bit. But again he might sort it out, and turn the tide, you will never now. No manager has used as much time as Levein to change things to the better before it gets worse. David Pleat (a well respected manager in other clubs) tried and tried, but never got it right, and things never happened for him at Leicester. It can happen to everyone.

[Bert]

Not comparing their 2 records - I'm looking at it from the perspective of what a new manager can be expected to deliver in his early months, MON didn't set the world on fire initially, so how confident are we that someone else could?

Levein isn't a new manager and he isn't in his early months here, he's been here for 15 months and things are only going down. And how can anyone gain any confidence from our results or position, we've won 1 game in two months, and currently lay at our lowest league position for 15 years, questions MUST be asked.

[sonia jackson]

good stats, but lets face it o'neill is a totally different breed. like others have mentioned he's out of ideas. What will he do in this transfer window, waste more money on useless left backs or strikers that in their lifetime won't score 20 goals, let alone in one season. Don't get me wrong like any other fan i desparately wanted the man to succeed but his lack of knowledge in the transfer market, amongst other things will unfortunately cost him his job.