davieG Posted 20 August 2006 Posted 20 August 2006 I think it maybe has something to do with entry and visa stamps. It's 2006 can't they do it electronically.
l444ry Posted 20 August 2006 Posted 20 August 2006 It's 2006 can't they do it electronically. Chance would be a fine thing. Our antiquated politicians can't even bring electronic voting into their antiquated House of Commons. After all the wasted hours filing half-pissed through their antiquated Lobbies they then complain that they have hardly any time for debating and legislating.
Steven Posted 20 August 2006 Posted 20 August 2006 You said it yourself though Steven "as a non criminal" Well as a non criminal you wouldn't have to worry! Personally I'd go further and stick everyone's DNA profile on the card. If I am not a criminal why must I let my Government treat me like one. The Government has introduced an extra 3,000 criminal offences since it got into power.
Head Honcho Posted 20 August 2006 Posted 20 August 2006 It's 2006 can't they do it electronically. Can you imagine 240 odd countries all trying to implement a system where all we use for international travel is an ID card. We can't even live on the same planet together!
golden gordon Posted 20 August 2006 Posted 20 August 2006 If I am not a criminal why must I let my Government treat me like one. The Government has introduced an extra 3,000 criminal offences since it got into power. how the **** is carrying an ID being treated like a criminal , how is it any different from needing a license to drive a car or a bank card to make a withdrawal , or should we all be trusted to be totally honest at all times and everyone taken at face value , please wake up
Gamesmaster Posted 20 August 2006 Posted 20 August 2006 firstly i did not say that out gov encouraged terrorists to live among us , and i don't know where you've pulled that particular rabbit from . how come you have so much mistrust of our democratic gov and yet believe anyone who critises them I never said you did say that, dont get paranoid now Ken livingstone has dined gadaffe and other islamic militants i remember reading/seeing/hearing about, ALL at the tax payers expense. This government also encouraged militancy within muslims by bombing "their brothers" abroad purely for financial reasons. If you want muslims to live democraticly in England, then you cannot have a policy of murdering their brothers. This government is not democratic. They are scared of giving us votes on things they feel we'll oppose, like the i.d. card system, like a ban on immigration, like withdrawel from the EU. Democracy is not illegaly invading foriegn countries.
Gamesmaster Posted 20 August 2006 Posted 20 August 2006 of course i'm not 100% sure of the trust i am putting into them but if you think that i'm prepared to trust anyone 100% then you'd be mistaken how much trust do you put into your hotch potch band of dissenters .....100% ? hardly likely do you really believe that "they" hold the monopoly of the truth and are fighting against the "evil" that is tony blair ? ( and of course the countless other democratically elected mps who were all in the plot ) So how much do you trust the government? How much would you say is too much for an i.d card? How would anti-i.d. card protestors be wrong?
Steven Posted 20 August 2006 Posted 20 August 2006 how the **** is carrying an ID being treated like a criminal , how is it any different from needing a license to drive a car or a bank card to make a withdrawal , or should we all be trusted to be totally honest at all times and everyone taken at face value , please wake up You seem unable to grasp the fact that the ID Card is not just an ID Card but also a means of tracking all of the above as well. Inferences about you and character will then be drawn from these transactions and you will have no way of correcting them. The Home Secretary may then let any third party they choose have access to this information if they so wish.
Gamesmaster Posted 20 August 2006 Posted 20 August 2006 how the **** is carrying an ID being treated like a criminal , how is it any different from needing a license to drive a car or a bank card to make a withdrawal , or should we all be trusted to be totally honest at all times and everyone taken at face value , please wake up YOU HAVE THE CHOICE TO OWN ONE OF THEM. Oh go back to bed Just give everyone the vote on i.d cards, then lets see if we agree with the notion? gg, it is intolerantly fascist of someone to force another to have a i.d card, it must surely be against our human rights.
Steven Posted 20 August 2006 Posted 20 August 2006 firstly i did not say that out gov encouraged terrorists to live among us , and i don't know where you've pulled that particular rabbit from . if as you say our gov has done this, then it has not happened overnight has it and govs for many years previous must all have been in on this "long term plot" that you seem to be suggesting has taken place under our unsuspecting noses how come you have so much mistrust of our democratic gov and yet believe anyone who critises them Firstly we are not in a Democracy, all votes are not equal in their effect, secondly who is being naive.
Steven Posted 20 August 2006 Posted 20 August 2006 YOU HAVE THE CHOICE TO OWN ONE OF THEM. Oh go back to bed Just give everyone the vote on i.d cards, then lets see if we agree with the notion? Remember it is not just about ID.
golden gordon Posted 20 August 2006 Posted 20 August 2006 I never said you did say that, dont get paranoid now Ken livingstone has dined gadaffe and other islamic militants i remember reading/seeing/hearing about, ALL at the tax payers expense. This government also encouraged militancy within muslims by bombing "their brothers" abroad purely for financial reasons. If you want muslims to live democraticly in England, then you cannot have a policy of murdering their brothers. This government is not democratic. They are scared of giving us votes on things they feel we'll oppose, like the i.d. card system, like a ban on immigration, like withdrawel from the EU. Democracy is not illegaly invading foriegn countries. all your critisisms of this particular gov we have now could be aimed at any democratic gov in our history , no previous gov has given us votes on single issues as that is what we vote them the power to do on our behalf. as i've said our system is not foolproof and is deeply flawed but probably the best we can hope for in the forseeable future. And all govs around the world have made mistakes as have all individuals , the problem with a lot of people is an expectation of perfection , it just aint achievable we vote in a selection of reps that i believe do a very good job in very hard circumstances ( i honestly believe that they know things and have to take decisions that would give us nightmares) and i realise there are many rogues among them but lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater the mps are in a better position to make judgements on our behalf as they have a better knowledge of the facts, tell me , would you trust joe average to have a big say in fiscal goverment policies or should we leave it to gordon brown to do it for us?
Gamesmaster Posted 20 August 2006 Posted 20 August 2006 all your critisisms of this particular gov we have now could be aimed at any democratic gov in our history , no previous gov has given us votes on single issues as that is what we vote them the power to do on our behalf. as i've said our system is not foolproof and is deeply flawed but probably the best we can hope for in the forseeable future. And all govs around the world have made mistakes as have all individuals , the problem with a lot of people is an expectation of perfection , it just aint achievable the mps are in a better position to make judgements on our behalf as they have a better knowledge of the facts, tell me , would you trust joe average to have a big say in fiscal goverment policies or should we leave it to gordon brown to do it for us? Which part of the new labour manifesto 2001 did it say they were going to illegaly invade a foreign country? And dont give me that they didnt know, i know fairly senior military officials who KNEW in 1999 this was going to happen. Dont be so silly, no one expects perfection, not even you. Your spinning your argument to make the opposite argument look silly. Gordon brown hasn't anything about him that we dont. he is a blagger, thats why mp's become mp's. WE can make just as good decisions as them, if we know what they know. The point is, they are NOT a democracy, so they dont tell us. Get some military friends, you'll find out things the government dont want you to know.
golden gordon Posted 20 August 2006 Posted 20 August 2006 Which part of the new labour manifesto 2001 did it say they were going to illegaly invade a foreign country? And dont give me that they didnt know, i know fairly senior military officials who KNEW in 1999 this was going to happen. Dont be so silly, no one expects perfection, not even you. Your spinning your argument to make the opposite argument look silly. Gordon brown hasn't anything about him that we dont. he is a blagger, thats why mp's become mp's. WE can make just as good decisions as them, if we know what they know. The point is, they are NOT a democracy, so they dont tell us. Get some military friends, you'll find out things the government dont want you to know. the one thing that has been constant in my life , is that after every event , there is always someone crawling out of the woodwork to say that they KNEW it was going to happen months / years beforehand . what however they always fail to do is put a good wad of cash on the prospect before it happens. i'm sure littlewoods would have given good odds to anyone predicting an outbreak of a war with accuracy years before the event . please tell me what your friends in the know are predicting to be the next world crisis and i'll try and get good odds at my local bookies
l444ry Posted 20 August 2006 Posted 20 August 2006 the one thing that has been constant in my life , is that after every event , there is always someone crawling out of the woodwork to say that they KNEW it was going to happen months / years beforehand . what however they always fail to do is put a good wad of cash on the prospect before it happens. i'm sure littlewoods would have given good odds to anyone predicting an outbreak of a war with accuracy years before the event . please tell me what your friends in the know are predicting to be the next world crisis and i'll try and get good odds at my local bookies Even the Jehovah's Witnesses cant get it right!!!! And they've had several tries.
golden gordon Posted 20 August 2006 Posted 20 August 2006 Even the Jehovah's Witnesses cant get it right!!!! And they've had several tries. yes they too seem to pretty good at predictions how many times since the event of 9/11 have i read / heard nutters going on about how they warned the gov and they knew it was all going to happen .....blah blah blah , why did they not see what odds they could get for an attack on the american mainland , let alone specifically which building , i'm sure odds of 1000s to 1 would have been given by any conservative estimate
Gamesmaster Posted 20 August 2006 Posted 20 August 2006 the one thing that has been constant in my life , is that after every event , there is always someone crawling out of the woodwork to say that they KNEW it was going to happen months / years beforehand . what however they always fail to do is put a good wad of cash on the prospect before it happens. i'm sure littlewoods would have given good odds to anyone predicting an outbreak of a war with accuracy years before the event . please tell me what your friends in the know are predicting to be the next world crisis and i'll try and get good odds at my local bookies How dare you critisize those you dont know of, and take the P at the same time, you fascist!! When i find out something that i feel you need to know, i'll PM you. When are you going to attempt to answer these easy questions: So how much do you trust the government? How much would you say is too much for an i.d card? How would anti-i.d. card protestors be wrong?
Lemon Harpic Posted 20 August 2006 Posted 20 August 2006 I think you'll find in post 28 that I answered the question! The question was how do ID cards affect terrorism? I have no doubt that they will that isn't my concern. You said that the ID card will be used to control us and that is blatantly not true explain how it is going to be used to control us! If the Government wanted to control you they would they don't need a ID card to do that for christ sake. This patently fails to answer the question. Saying "I have no doubt that ID cards will prevent terrorism" is not an answer. Not unless the question is "Allen, how do we know that you live on another planet to the rest of us?"
golden gordon Posted 20 August 2006 Posted 20 August 2006 How dare you critisize those you dont know of, and take the P at the same time, you fascist!! When i find out something that i feel you need to know, i'll PM you. When are you going to attempt to answer these easy questions: So how much do you trust the government? How much would you say is too much for an i.d card? How would anti-i.d. card protestors be wrong? why is anyone who disagrees with you or critsizes you, or your friends a fascist ? yes please let me know when the next world changing event will occur , i'm sure i'll get good odds at the bookies i've answered on at least 3 occasions how much i trust this government, ........not totally but more than the rag bag assortment of dissidents that you seem to have total faith in the cost of an ID card will i'm sure be decided with due consideration to a persons ability to pay and i'd expect to pay the full amount as i'm probably in a position to do so and would not baulk at the cost . if it helps in any way to prevent fraud or terror it would be money well spent anti ID protestors may not be wrong, but also they may not be right , it is a judgement i have come to after listening to arguments put forward by both sides and on balance i am leaning towards the pro ID argument if this in your view is the profile of a fascist i really don't see how i can convince you that i'm not . i merely wish to give our gov the best chance it sees fit to take the preventative measures it sees fit to avoid further atrocities
Steven Posted 20 August 2006 Posted 20 August 2006 why is anyone who disagrees with you or critsizes you, or your friends a fascist ? You have attacked my views as being dangerously left wing and suggested that stop being so paranoid . or I am part of the hotch potch brigade or part of hotch potch band of dissenters , that last one sounds like an East German , or to please wake up . You have your own way of expressing disagreement with those that criticise you.
golden gordon Posted 20 August 2006 Posted 20 August 2006 You have attacked my views as being dangerously left wing and suggested that or I am part of or part of , that last one sounds like an East German , or to . You have your own way of expressing disagreement with those that criticise you. yes i know i have , after listening to your derogatory comments about our duly elected government , its in response to that . i think it was you who have used the term "bliar" , if not i apologise to you but it has been used by many of your ilk
Steven Posted 20 August 2006 Posted 20 August 2006 yes i know i have , after listening to your derogatory comments about our duly elected government , its in response to that . i think it was you who have used the term "bliar" , if not i apologise to you but it has been used by many of your ilk It is the duty of every Citizen to closely question the Government of the day. To not do is to lead an East German like existence. No thank you, I hope for and expect more from the UK.
golden gordon Posted 20 August 2006 Posted 20 August 2006 It is the duty of every Citizen to closely question the Government of the day. To not do is to lead an East German like existence. No thank you, I hope for and expect more from the UK. i totally agree , but it is also our duty to question the motives of the critics of the gov. and in our system that you seem to despise , remember that is what we are both doing now . yes we are allowed to do these things because our system is so good . Something you keep forgetting in your tirades of abuse aimed at the gov. of the day
Gamesmaster Posted 20 August 2006 Posted 20 August 2006 why is anyone who disagrees with you or critsizes you, or your friends a fascist ? i've answered on at least 3 occasions how much i trust this government, ........not totally but more than the rag bag assortment of dissidents that you seem to have total faith in the cost of an ID card will i'm sure be decided with due consideration to a persons ability to pay and i'd expect to pay the full amount as i'm probably in a position to do so and would not baulk at the cost . if it helps in any way to prevent fraud or terror it would be money well spent anti ID protestors may not be wrong, but also they may not be right , it is a judgement i have come to after listening to arguments put forward by both sides and on balance i am leaning towards the pro ID argument if this in your view is the profile of a fascist i really don't see how i can convince you that i'm not . i merely wish to give our gov the best chance it sees fit to take the preventative measures it sees fit to avoid further atrocities You were badly intolerant of people you dont know. can you give me a number percentagedly how much you trust this government? and/or give me general examples of say morality? I just wana show how much your trust is to you and everyone, and see if it produces a good enough reason to trust them via the i.d card scam. How much would you say is too much to pay for an i.d card? "anti-i.d card protesters may not be wrong"...so theres 50%? doubt about the possible success rate in the scheme? How would anti-i.d card protestors be wrong? If you honestly believe in "this" democratic system, then surely we deserve the human right to vote on such tactics that will invade our lives unecessarilly? We have the choice to take part in credit card and passport systems. Why are we wrong to insist on the same behaviour? Forcing us to withdraw some of our liberty, is a government that believes in fascism, not tolerance, and certainly not democracy, and you are on their side. Your last point is a joke my friend. You want to give them what they consider fiiting measures to avoid further attrocities, that they encourage. Do you not see, that that is like saying the blind is capable of leading the blind into darkness? If they say jump, you expect us to ask how high?
Head Honcho Posted 20 August 2006 Posted 20 August 2006 The question was how do ID cards affect terrorism? This patently fails to answer the question. Saying "I have no doubt that ID cards will prevent terrorism" is not an answer. Not unless the question is "Allen, how do we know that you live on another planet to the rest of us?" Maybe it was the way it was written but let me put you straight I do not think ID cards will prevent terrorism and I never have, they will be another tool in the fight against terrorism but a very minimal one.
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