If there was an election tomorrow

[Janx]

So tell us all jankers!

How bad have things really got for you in 10 years?

I am not overly concerned by my OWN situation, more for the country as a whole cheers.

And don't think you are going to suck me into a slanging match, because having read a few of the posts on here you are clearly looking for a scrap..

However since when has Socialism meant... "personal prosperity for all" hmm seems quite a Thatcherite concept doesnt it... I wonder which Re-contstructed party changed themselves in order to gain public acceptance made that statement.

[Head Honcho]

I am not overly concerned by my OWN situation, more for the country as a whole cheers.

And don't think you are going to suck me into a slanging match, because having read a few of the posts on here you are clearly looking for a scrap..

However since when has Socialism meant... "personal prosperity for all" hmm seems quite a Thatcherite concept doesnt it... I wonder which Re-contstructed party changed themselves in order to gain public acceptance made that statement.

I'm not looking for a scrap.

I'm just trying to get people to be philosophical and act rationally when making decisions that could affect the rest of their lives!

Things aren't as bad as many would have you believe and I've always stood by the saying:

The grass isn't that greener on the other side

[lookwhaticando]

I'm a Tory voter, I vote Tory.

End of discussion.

As for the biggest issue, I reckon it's the fact that without proper reform, the country will be in deep financial shite in 40 years time - as will many (most/all?) developed nations in the West.

There's got to be a better way of looking after our pensioners than the silly tax credit system Gordon Brown came up with.

[stez]

Everything is worse now than 10 years ago, Everything!!!

you're joking surely?

[Head Honcho]

Everything is worse now than 10 years ago, Everything!!!

You don't seem to be posting much evidence to support your claim!

[Head Honcho]

I'm a Tory voter, I vote Tory.

End of discussion.

As for the biggest issue, I reckon it's the fact that without proper reform, the country will be in deep financial shite in 40 years time - as will many (most/all?) developed nations in the West.

There's got to be a better way of looking after our pensioners than the silly tax credit system Gordon Brown came up with.

Maybe when you start contributing to our economy I'll be able to take you seriously!

...........and tell me when did you become the financial whizzkid that allows you to predict the worldwide economy in 40 years time

Maybe we've found the successor to Alan Greenspan on Foxestalk

[lookwhaticando]

Maybe when you start contributing to our economy I'll be able to take you seriously!

...........and tell me when did you become the financial whizzkid that allows you to predict the worldwide economy in 40 years time

Maybe we've found the successor to Alan Greenspan on Foxestalk

There's no need to be a sarcy git about it.

I may only be 21, I may not currently live in the UK, but I do read plenty of articles on the subject of the world economy - mostly Western, developed economies - particularly the US and UK. As far as the pensioner problem goes, we're not in as much danger as say Germany, because we have reaonsable birth rates and plenty of immigration - more young workers to support those retired.

It's basic numbers to know there's going to be a problem without change anyway - more pensioners living longer require more money to keep them. To maintain the level financial support and benefits we give them for the next 20, 30, 40 years will require so much more money - something's gotta give somewhere.

[stez]

There's no need to be a sarcy **** about it.

I may only be 21, I may not currently live in the UK, but I do read plenty of articles on the subject of the world economy - mostly Western, developed economies - particularly the US and UK. As far as the pensioner problem goes, we're not in as much danger as say Germany, because we have reaonsable birth rates and plenty of immigration - more young workers to support those retired.

It's basic numbers to know there's going to be a problem without change anyway - more pensioners living longer require more money to keep them. To maintain the level financial support we give them for the next 20, 30, 40 years will require so much more money - something's gotta give somewhere.

that's why (i heard) germany are quite keen for us to get into the euro so we can help out with our slightly more healthy pension pot.

[Thracian]

And now directly from America, the most cunning of Foxes, the new Wizard of Wall Street....

Will he still post on here? Will he remember his roots?....

[lookwhaticando]

that's why (i heard) germany are quite keen for us to get into the euro so we can help out with our slightly more healthy pension pot.

Not heard that one before - but I tend to lose interest when things turn to a discussion of Germany.

I'm not sure of the link between being in the currency and pensions, though... Pensions are a national issue, not a European state one (because there isn't a EU State yet, thanks to France and Holland - phew!) so there shouldn't be a mechanism for pension-sharing I wouldn't think.

Still, I imagine it's on the cards - when France realizes it's going to be in trouble too, they'll push for an EU pension pot, so they can spread the burden onto states with much healthier balances.

[lookwhaticando]

And now directly from America, the most cunning of Foxes, the new Wizard of Wall Street....

Will he still post on here? Will he remember his roots?....

If I ever had that much money and power, I'd buy Donnington Hall, just for fun - and it's well and truly close to my roots.

[stez]

Not heard that one before - but I tend to lose interest when things turn to a discussion of Germany.

I'm not sure of the link between being in the currency and pensions, though... Pensions are a national issue, not a European state one (because there isn't a EU State yet, thanks to France and Holland - phew!) so there shouldn't be a mechanism for pension-sharing I wouldn't think.

Still, I imagine it's on the cards - when France realizes it's going to be in trouble too, they'll push for an EU pension pot, so they can spread the burden onto states with much healthier balances.

to be fair (to me and you, as you'd have been 11 at the time!) i heard it around 10 years ago when the tories were in power (and everything was rosy © master fox ) and they were against anything that started and ended with 'E'

[lookwhaticando]

to be fair (to me and you, as you'd have been 11 at the time!) i heard it around 10 years ago when the tories were in power (and everything was rosy © master fox ) and they were against anything that started and ended with 'E'

Probably why it's news to me.

Bet Redwood came up with that one.

[Head Honcho]

There's no need to be a sarcy git about it.

I may only be 21, I may not currently live in the UK, but I do read plenty of articles on the subject of the world economy - mostly Western, developed economies - particularly the US and UK. As far as the pensioner problem goes, we're not in as much danger as say Germany, because we have reaonsable birth rates and plenty of immigration - more young workers to support those retired.

It's basic numbers to know there's going to be a problem without change anyway - more pensioners living longer require more money to keep them. To maintain the level financial support and benefits we give them for the next 20, 30, 40 years will require so much more money - something's gotta give somewhere.

The pension burden imo will fall in years to come due to company/personal pensions!

There will always be people on state pensions thats a fact but generally the numbers will fall.

There's no getting away from the fact that there will be more legislation to come regarding personal pension and the sooner the better.

Our attitude to pensions and retirement needs to change now and if it needs a change in the law for us to take it serious then so be it!

[Daggers]

Our attitude to pensions and retirement needs to change

I think our attitude towards sticking our elderly relatives in homes rather than caring for them within the bosom of the family needs to change too.

[Head Honcho]

I think our attitude towards sticking our elderly relatives in homes rather than caring for them within the bosom of the family needs to change too.

I'd agree with you there

I also get angry when people moan about the government selling old folks homes to pay for their care!

Well here's an idea why don't the offspring of some of the elderly we have in care keep the home and look after them themselves, it's simple really.

[Daggers]

Well here's an idea why don't the offspring of some of the elderly we have in care keep the home and look after them themselves, it's simple really.

Colombians looked at me as if I was a liar when I told them how we run families (generally) in this country. The only OAP home in Cali was for retired nuns and priests - not one old person lived in a home. Not one. You would be considered less than human if you even mentioned wanting to remove an elderly relation from the home.

Everything is structured around the family whereby certain family members assume the role of carers. I find it sad that we as a nation now find ourselves in a position that both parents work because of the pressures of debt. It is possible for a parent to remain at home, hell...it's what I do at the moment! But, we only manage to do this because we have got rid of every ounce of debt we used to have.

Colombia might have a number of problems - but mental illness, homelessness and delinquency don't rank among them... and there has to be a correlation to the strength of the family unit.

My parents may not wish to consider moving in with us one day ~ but they're going to have a job refusing when needs be. Likewise, my kids are never going to be placed in a position where we selfishly want to encourage them out.

[stez]

Colombians looked at me as if I was a liar when I told them how we run families (generally) in this country. The only OAP home in Cali was for retired nuns and priests - not one old person lived in a home. Not one. You would be considered less than human if you even mentioned wanting to remove an elderly relation from the home.

Everything is structured around the family whereby certain family members assume the role of carers. I find it sad that we as a nation now find ourselves in a position that both parents work because of the pressures of debt. It is possible for a parent to remain at home, hell...it's what I do at the moment! But, we only manage to do this because we have got rid of every ounce of debt we used to have.

Colombia might have a number of problems - but mental illness, homelessness and delinquency don't rank among them... and there has to be a correlation to the strength of the family unit.

My parents may not wish to consider moving in with us one day ~ but they're going to have a job refusing when needs be. Likewise, my kids are never going to be placed in a position where we selfishly want to encourage them out.

this is all fine and dandy, but our family units are far more dispersed; for example 2 most members of my family live in manchester, some in wales, some in lincolnshire, some in newcastle, some in leicestershire some in london, some in spain, some in austrailia. we don't all live down the same street like in past times, and also more families have two people working, thus there is noone at home to be a carer anyway. utopia can't happen just yet.

[Thracian]

Colombians looked at me as if I was a liar when I told them how we run families (generally) in this country. The only OAP home in Cali was for retired nuns and priests - not one old person lived in a home. Not one. You would be considered less than human if you even mentioned wanting to remove an elderly relation from the home.

Everything is structured around the family whereby certain family members assume the role of carers. I find it sad that we as a nation now find ourselves in a position that both parents work because of the pressures of debt. It is possible for a parent to remain at home, hell...it's what I do at the moment! But, we only manage to do this because we have got rid of every ounce of debt we used to have.

Colombia might have a number of problems - but mental illness, homelessness and delinquency don't rank among them... and there has to be a correlation to the strength of the family unit.

My parents may not wish to consider moving in with us one day ~ but they're going to have a job refusing when needs be. Likewise, my kids are never going to be placed in a position where we selfishly want to encourage them out.

It is shameful the way the strength and sanctuary of the family unit has been devalued and dismantled in recent years by the social manipulators who hold positions of power. The eventual cost could quite well be horrific.

So much for the championing of greed, materialism and self.

[l444ry]

I'd agree with you there

I also get angry when people moan about the government selling old folks homes to pay for their care!

Well here's an idea why don't the offspring of some of the elderly we have in care keep the home and look after them themselves, it's simple really.

It is an absolute disgrace selling their homes to pay for care. This has only become an issue since the Government(s) have decided to waste money hand over fist on virtually everything and therefore had to raise even more this way. I've been Labour all my life but I tear my hair out at the cost of the waste made by our so-called public services.

[Head Honcho]

It is an absolute disgrace selling their homes to pay for care. This has only become an issue since the Government(s) have decided to waste money hand over fist on virtually everything and therefore had to raise even more this way. I've been Labour all my life but I tear my hair out at the cost of the waste made by our so-called public services.

What use will they have for their homes when their gone?

.....and it's become an issue due to the fact that more of our elderly are abandoned by their children and have no one but the state to look after them!

[Daggers]

this is all fine and dandy, but our family units are far more dispersed; for example 2 most members of my family live in manchester, some in wales, some in lincolnshire, some in newcastle, some in leicestershire some in london, some in spain, some in austrailia. we don't all live down the same street like in past times, and also more families have two people working, thus there is noone at home to be a carer anyway. utopia can't happen just yet.

All I'm doing is offering a compare and contrast moment from my experience of living in a different culture with different values. Not pontificating not nor nothing.

Likewise, my family is now dispersed...but I don't think that is a good thing. I think Tebbitt was wrong about most things, but especially his 'get on your bike' mantra. In fact, not having my family close by makes me sad. My parents live in Normandy and now only see their grandchildren twice a year! That's really crap. They are there because of the run on share prices, property slumps and the effect on their pension ~ it all made them downsize and this is as close as they could afford to live.

The process of praising Mammon, accelerated in the 80's and continued through to the current day, has only served to break up the family unit at an earlier and earlier stage. Hell, one advert running on TV encourages people to make one night a week their family night. Every night should be a family night shouldn't it?

[stez]

All I'm doing is offering a compare and contrast moment from my experience of living in a different culture with different values. Not pontificating not nor nothing.

Likewise, my family is now dispersed...but I don't think that is a good thing. I think Tebbitt was wrong about most things, but especially his 'get on your bike' mantra. In fact, not having my family close by makes me sad. My parents live in Normandy and now only see their grandchildren twice a year! That's really crap. They are there because of the run on share prices, property slumps and the effect on their pension ~ it all made them downsize and this is as close as they could afford to live.

The process of praising Mammon, accelerated in the 80's and continued through to the current day, has only served to break up the family unit at an earlier and earlier stage. Hell, one advert running on TV encourages people to make one night a week their family night. Every night should be a family night shouldn't it?

almost every night in my house. @ me

mammon is not usually the reason most families have two works, it's usually because a 2 up 2 down in newfoundpool can cost upwards of 120k these days and 2 wages are needed to pay the mortgage (or rent) and the ever increasing cost of gas and leccy.

[l444ry]

What use will they have for their homes when their gone?

.....and it's become an issue due to the fact that more of our elderly are abandoned by their children and have no one but the state to look after them!

Take two imaginary elderly people who live next door to each other. One has bought his own house in the hope he/she might hand something down to their offspring and has lived carefully taking care to save for his/her old age. The other is a lazy scrounger who spent his/her life pissing his/her money up against the wall. For arguments sake let's say they both require care in their old age. Why should the prudent one have his/her house and savings taken away while the other continues to have the state pay for him/her?

I agree about your second point though. But the way society is today, with marriages lasting five minutes, it will only get worse for the kids, never mind the elderly.

[lookwhaticando]

The pension burden imo will fall in years to come due to company/personal pensions!

There will always be people on state pensions thats a fact but generally the numbers will fall.

There's no getting away from the fact that there will be more legislation to come regarding personal pension and the sooner the better.

Our attitude to pensions and retirement needs to change now and if it needs a change in the law for us to take it serious then so be it!

Doubt it'll fall - company pension schemes are in big financial holes at the minute. British Airways has a big deficit to fill... Ford and GM are on the edge of bankruptcy thanks, in part, to a huge number of former workers they must provide benefits for. Company pensions aren't in great shape, and it's going to take a lot to fix that.

As for personal pensions, with consumer spending as high as it is in the UK, I don't see how anyone could possibly put any money aside at all.

If people can be pushed/pursuaded into more personal saving, or into solid corporate pension schemes, then they will help keep the pension burden from spiralling out of control, but it probably won't be enough to stop the issue growing. There needs to be some fundamental changes at the national level to help avoid serious financial issues with regards to pensioners.

Raising the state pension age is a brilliant place to start - just adding a few years to the expectancy will make a difference. The goverment, if I'm not mistaken, has committed to this already - but not for a few years will it take effect.

As for Gordon's means-tested tax credits - some say that in about 15 years, up to 75% of the pension-age population will be entitled to said credits. And it's a bit easy to get the credit - your friendly neighbourhood accountant can shuffle around your money so you appear to need the credit. Not implying of course that this is commonplace, but it's a concern nonetheless.