If there was an election tomorrow

[Daggers]

almost every night in my house. @ me

Lucky family, having such a self effacing Stez to live with!

Take two imaginary elderly people who live next door to each other.

Agreed, it is rough - but surely the solution is for families to look after their family members rather than have the State support all of these rejected and dejected pensioners?

[Head Honcho]

Take two imaginary elderly people who live next door to each other. One has bought his own house in the hope he/she might hand something down to their offspring and has lived carefully taking care to save for his/her old age. The other is a lazy scrounger who spent his/her life pissing his/her money up against the wall. For arguments sake let's say they both require care in their old age. Why should the prudent one have his/her house and savings taken away while the other continues to have the state pay for him/her?

I agree about your second point though. But the way society is today, with marriages lasting five minutes, it will only get worse for the kids, never mind the elderly.

You have a point but unfortunately life isn't fair and I'd still choose to buy my home at the risk of losing it later on in life then not to buy at all.

[stez]

You have a point but unfortunately life isn't fair and I'd still choose to buy my home at the risk of losing it later on in life then not to buy at all.

when i owned my house (i now have a lovely tied cottage) i used to get really annoyed by the scroat (and she was/is a scroat) getting a new boiler free, double glazing free, loft insulation free etc. while i had to save for years to get any of that i know the council has to maintain its' stock, but it still annoyed the hell out of me. having my landlord and boss foot the maintainance bills rocks!

[Head Honcho]

when i owned my house (i now have a lovely tied cottage) i used to get really annoyed by the scroat (and she was/is a scroat) getting a new boiler free, double glazing free, loft insulation free etc. while i had to save for years to get any of that i know the council has to maintain its' stock, but it still annoyed the hell out of me. having my landlord and boss foot the maintainance bills rocks!

I know what you mean a new boiler cost me £2k last year

...........had to make do with Europe for me hols

[Daggers]

...........had to make do with Europe for me hols

Shame

[stez]

I know what you mean a new boiler cost me £2k last year

...........had to make do with Europe for me hols

lucky bleedoh!

[Ultra]

I'm surprised that the three ****nuts who selected BNP could read well enough to understand the question. Maybe they thought it was a quiz about petrol?

I think we can guess at the ID of at least one of the said "****nuts". Maybe he thinks they'll lower the price of porn.

We live in a global society in which travel is as cheap as it as EVER been in real terms. Therefore it's relatively easy for folk to move from one country to another. This applies outwards of the UK as well as inwards. Look how many people emigrate to Spain, Australia etc each year.

Immigration is not as big an issue as the Tories, BNP and media pretend it is.

[Ultra]

Everything is worse now than 10 years ago, Everything!!!

Is it hell.

Hardly anyone had the net 10 years ago. Or a mobile phone!

[The People's Hero]

Problem with this country is there are too many lazy, scroungers playing the system.

The system has to be there... you just have to hope that people have enough pride in themselves to see it as a fallback/a safety net... not a 'scrounging career'.

Shame.

[Ultra]

It is shameful the way the strength and sanctuary of the family unit has been devalued and dismantled in recent years by the social manipulators who hold positions of power. The eventual cost could quite well be horrific.

And exactly how is the state to blame for the fact that more people have problems maintaining steady relationships?

[Finnegan]

Where's Plaid?

[TrickyTrev]

Labour. Schools and Hospitals have only just been funded at adaquete levels in the last 6 years, would be an absaloute disaster for that to change now.

[TrickyTrev]

It is an absolute disgrace selling their homes to pay for care. This has only become an issue since the Government(s) have decided to waste money hand over fist on virtually everything and therefore had to raise even more this way. I've been Labour all my life but I tear my hair out at the cost of the waste made by our so-called public services.

Why shouldn't they sell their homes? So the second generation can get their hands on all the money tied up in the bricks and mortar? If they want soem of that cash they should take their part in their RESPONISIBILITY to their family and look after elderly relatives themselves.

Thus country is full of greedy ****s that want somethign for nothing.

[Dr The Singh]

The issue for me like majority of people is what I see at my door step, and what effects the security and well being of my family!!!

Schools:

I can't put my kids in our chosen school because there is a waiting list for that school. Looking at the Ofsted reports, there isn't much to choose from at a commutable range!

Outcome: Labour failure

Policing\Security:

Have had vandals damage my fence, abuse from youths, every night youths are getting drunk in the fields, causing untold damage!! We live in a nieghborhood watch area, and the police are powerless to do anything. I could widen the scale and talk about Leicester as a whole, but it would be a really big essay

Outcome: Labour failure

Health Services:

A complete disgrace, my wife has worked for the Health service for 6 years, and has worked for the audit department etc. I can write a whole book on the topic

Outcome failure

Immigration:

The fact that the government have no idea how many immigrants are in this country, says something. Not going to, too much detail but the country is small, and is the 'densist' in terms of population, but the groth i resources have not matched that. The fact that poepl are willing to die to get to UK, says something, it's the soft spot of europe!! Immigration does have it's purpose, we do need labour but first we must address those that are out of work etc!!

Outcome: failure

3 terms in power, and I can honeslty say things have not been improved by Labour. Pople can argue that the state was rotten before they took over etc, but still 9 years should have made atleast abit of difference. It's not Labours total fault, society as a whole is failing itself!! The question is who else can do any better, i for one cannot answer that question!!

[stez]

I think we can guess at the ID of at least one of the said "****nuts". Maybe he thinks they'll lower the price of porn.

We live in a global society in which travel is as cheap as it as EVER been in real terms. Therefore it's relatively easy for folk to move from one country to another. This applies outwards of the UK as well as inwards. Look how many people emigrate to Spain, Australia etc each year.

Immigration is not as big an issue as the Tories, BNP and media pretend it is.

amusingly, i was talking to someone who was moaning about the trillions of bulgarians and rumaians who will be 'invading' our country next year (or whenever) he failed to see the similarities between that and the fact he moved to spain last year........

[lookwhaticando]

Well Immigration must be a biggish issue - otherwise the present Labour gov't wouldn't feel so moved by the numbers to put restrictions in inbound immigrations from next year's two new EU entrants.

There goes our status as one of the more immigrant-worker-friendly status in the EU. In one single policy, we've become a bit more like France - just a bit more protectionist than before... next our gov't will be telling us they're going to block a hostile bid for some food company.

Economic immigrants are useful for our economy - that's why we were one of only three countries to open the borders properly to the new entrants in 2004, whereas the French were sh/t-scared of losing their old jobs-for-life ideals. The French didn't want the French to upset the status quo - jobs-for-life for those who could get one - so they put up barriers. Shame we feel the need to go down the same road, we weren't doing too badly out of it all.

[Dr The Singh]

Well Immigration must be a biggish issue - otherwise the present Labour gov't wouldn't feel so moved by the numbers to put restrictions in inbound immigrations from next year's two new EU entrants.

There goes our status as one of the more immigrant-worker-friendly status in the EU. In one single policy, we've become a bit more like France - just a bit more protectionist than before... next our gov't will be telling us they're going to block a hostile bid for some food company.

3 of our suppliers, were talking over 20,000 staff, have decided that there will be no further permanant recruitment, all will be temps on minimum wage..........as you can imagine, all new staff are immigrants. The goverment got there estimates wrong (which I think is cock and bull), and the influx has lowered the cost of labour, great for business not great for the labourers

Another problem is that it's a visual thing...........people complian that when they go the doctors they can't get an oappointment, when they do, they see immigrants in the waiting room, same goes for hospitals, schools etc. They watch crime watch, and see an immigrant on there. Even if in all cases they are in the minority they are more visual because they are different, hence a feeling arises that they are taking something from them!!!

[lookwhaticando]

3 of our suppliers, were talking over 20,000 staff, have decided that there will be no further permanant recruitment, all will be temps on minimum wage..........as you can imagine, all new staff are immigrants. The goverment got there estimates wrong (which I think is cock and bull), and the influx has lowered the cost of labour, great for business not great for the labourers

Another problem is that it's a visual thing...........people complian that when they go the doctors they can't get an oappointment, when they do, they see immigrants in the waiting room, same goes for hospitals, schools etc. They watch crime watch, and see an immigrant on there. Even if in all cases they are in the minority they are more visual because they are different, hence a feeling arises that they are taking something from them!!!

I agree about the shambles over the numbers - I also find it amusing that they feel the need to put restrictions on newcomers when they don't even know how many we already have or are likely to have. Even worse, they won't know how many of them have returned (as often economic migrants do).

On the other hand the percieved problem isn't as bad as some people (BNP probably) tried to make out.

The influx will indeed have cut some costs for companies operating here, and that's good news for the companies and the economy itself. It's not terribly great news for the laborers, no, but in a market system such as ours there's always winners and losers - that's the idea. Then again, heavily controlled markets fair no better.

On the other hand, if cheaper labour didn't come here to work, some of the jobs would go where the costs are lower - India for example. Really, the impact on jobs for the natives is little different with immigration and without.

As long as you have sensible, sustainable welfare state for those 'without', immigration should cause few problems at all.

Shoulda done something about those immigrant killers walking our streets tho. :pinch:

[Dr The Singh]

I agree about the shambles over the numbers - I also find it amusing that they feel the need to put restrictions on newcomers when they don't even know how many we already have or are likely to have. Even worse, they won't know how many of them have returned (as often economic migrants do).

On the other hand the percieved problem isn't as bad as some people (BNP probably) tried to make out.

The influx will indeed have cut some costs for companies operating here, and that's good news for the companies and the economy itself. It's not terribly great news for the laborers, no, but in a market system such as ours there's always winners and losers - that's the idea. Then again, heavily controlled markets fair no better.

On the other hand, if cheaper labour didn't come here to work, some of the jobs would go where the costs are lower - India for example. Really, the impact on jobs for the natives is little different with immigration and without.

As long as you have sensible, sustainable welfare state for those 'without', immigration should cause few problems at all.

Shoulda done something about those immigrant killers walking our streets tho. :pinch:

I agree, the perception the BNP are giving is false, but it would be foolish to say there isn't a problem, our resources are already overstretched, with our PM making speeches that we (public) should not be reliant on the NHS or pensions etc, it's not a good sign.

Immigration is still required, we don't have enough dentist, doctors, pumbers, builders etc but the 'spongers' as TPH said, need to re-integrated into the working world, and our asylum system definitely needs to be looked at (free housing, money etc), is a dream come true, they should also contribute to society!!!

[lookwhaticando]

I agree, the perception the BNP are giving is false, but it would be foolish to say there isn't a problem, our resources are already overstretched, with our PM making speeches that we (public) should not be reliant on the NHS or pensions etc, it's not a good sign.

Immigration is still required, we don't have enough dentist, doctors, pumbers, builders etc but the 'spongers' as TPH said, need to re-integrated into the working world, and our asylum system definitely needs to be looked at (free housing, money etc), is a dream come true, they should also contribute to society!!!

Exactly.

There is a problem - and it's a tricky one to deal with (they've been trying for years, yet the NHS is still in trouble, for one thing). You're right regarding the spongers too - the state isn't in place for people to come and enjoy a free ride. Many immigrants from central/eastern Europe come to work - better paid jobs. Unfortunately some come along and when they fail to find work, they're more than happy to just sit back and claim benefits.

The asylum system has been used and abused too much - legitimate claims are acceptable, provided the claimants are prepared to do something for their protection, as cruel as that may sound. As for illegal immigrants of any kind - they should be rounded up and deported immediately, and then blocked from re-entry for five years.

If you want to come to live here, by all means do, but at least do it legally.

[Ultra]

amusingly, i was talking to someone who was moaning about the trillions of bulgarians and rumaians who will be 'invading' our country next year (or whenever) he failed to see the similarities between that and the fact he moved to spain last year........

Unbelievable..

[l444ry]

Why shouldn't they sell their homes? So the second generation can get their hands on all the money tied up in the bricks and mortar? If they want soem of that cash they should take their part in their RESPONISIBILITY to their family and look after elderly relatives themselves.

Thus country is full of greedy ****s that want somethign for nothing.

I refer you to a later post as to why I think it's wrong. All I would add is that the whole welfare state needs redefining so as to reward or help those people who play the game. The lazy, spongeing trollopes amongst us should go take a jump.

[Thracian]

almost every night in my house. @ me

mammon is not usually the reason most families have two works, it's usually because a 2 up 2 down in newfoundpool can cost upwards of 120k these days and 2 wages are needed to pay the mortgage (or rent) and the ever increasing cost of gas and leccy.

It didn't used to but then people didn't used to get hit for so many extras. I remember married friends in the early 60's saying they'd be twice as affluent once both partners were working and I remember spelling out why they wouldn't. It was a social con.

I've nothing against people having careers. But if you have a marriage there's a home to look after and usually children.

But now many people are even putting off having children for this reason or that - only to find they miss the boat or their relationship cracks up or their body will no longer cope or whatever and the phschological consequences can be huge.

And what has the social revolution done for families?. Some have coped admirably but in stacks of cases, the family has fallen apart with all is attendant miseries for the partners, their children and the relatives.

And financially I don't think there has ever been more debt. We are living on tick and the situation is getting worse. Materialism? It's pathetic really. People should be are worth more than objects but, my life, we live in an avaricious world today.

You've only got to read about football agents to get the picture.