Let's get some perspective...

[Daggers]

11 Newcastle 31 7 5 4 23 18 3 2 10 11 22 -6 37

12 Middlesbrough 31 8 3 4 21 16 1 6 9 11 22 -6 36

13 Man City 30 5 4 6 10 13 5 2 8 13 21 -11 36

14 Fulham 31 6 6 4 15 14 1 8 6 17 31 -13 35

15 Aston Villa 30 6 5 4 15 12 1 8 6 14 23 -6 34

16 Wigan 31 5 3 7 14 20 4 3 9 16 25 -15 33

17 Sheff Utd 31 5 6 4 18 17 3 1 12 7 28 -20 31

18 Charlton 31 7 3 6 18 17 1 3 11 11 32 -20 30

19 West Ham 31 6 2 8 19 21 1 3 11 6 30 -26 26

20 Watford 31 2 7 7 13 21 1 4 10 6 26 -28 20

Right - we have a seven point gap and yet everyone (myself included) is calling for Kelly's neck.

Not quite the same in the Premiership is it?

I think it is time to have faith in other teams failing...

[Lineker's Left Foot]

Yes I think we're all disillusioned at the moment and currently have 'delusions of grandeur' now that Milan Mandaric has arrived !! No, we've done enough, even now and I can't see the likes of Barnsley, Southend and Luton really obtaining those points to equal ours - even if we lost every game now. However, we are very lucky to have generally achieved our target !!

[Fez of Mahrez]

What's your point Dave?

[Flynny]

The Championship is a way more open league. No point comparing.

[Hullfox]

I've consistently said that we are a division 2 club.

I don't mind us losing but I will not accept a team of players who look like they either don't give a shit about the club that we all love or quite frankly who are out of their depth.

From my perspective, the blame doesn't lie with Kelly as much as the players. He joined the club as a coach and had we had money he'd never have been manager.

The players joined the club to cross that white line on a Saturday afternoon. Unfortunately, the deal doesn't end there. Time to give methinks.

[Mort]

It would take a real run of form by the clubs bellow us to drag us down into the bottom three... but, we have a very nasty run of games comming up so there's always a chance, IMHO we need to get six points between now and the end of the season to be sure of security... but if we want to talk about "perspective" RK has over seen the worst football, the worst run of results this club has ever seen and at the same time the most unfit, unmotivated and il managed City team... so yes he should go, and thats been clear for a long time, but at the same time todays result was not unexpected on current form, but despite Rk's and some of the playing staff's best efforts to get us relegated the result doesnt change the fact that we "should" be ok... its not good, its not desirable... to be honest its a fu*king disgrace!! ...but even with our run of games the likes of QPR and Leeds have worse ahead of them, and we should be ok.

[Daggers]

What's your point Dave?

There's not the same level of clamour for the heads of the bosses in the Prem...there's a sense that this points gap may well be OK...that as much as though I want to see Kelly picking up his giro cheque he may not be the man to deliver us to the third level...

[Fez of Mahrez]

There's not the same level of clamour for the heads of the bosses in the Prem...there's a sense that this points gap may well be OK...that as much as though I want to see Kelly picking up his giro cheque he may not be the man to deliver us to the third level...

I don't see the parallel. The fans' discontent with Kelly is to do with far more than just our league position. The players don't look bothered. You couldn't level that at someone like Warnock or Jewell.

[Daggers]

I don't see the parallel. The fans' discontent with Kelly is to do with far more than just our league position. The players don't look bothered. You couldn't level that at someone like Warnock or Jewell.

The pll is the points difference and the sense of imminent relegation...not the accordance of managerial ability and player involvement.

I bet we don't go down...cash money.

[Thracian]

I've consistently said that we are a division 2 club.

I don't mind us losing but I will not accept a team of players who look like they either don't give a shit about the club that we all love or quite frankly who are out of their depth.

From my perspective, the blame doesn't lie with Kelly as much as the players. He joined the club as a coach and had we had money he'd never have been manager.

The players joined the club to cross that white line on a Saturday afternoon. Unfortunately, the deal doesn't end there. Time to give methinks.

The very fact that so many players - far more than I have ever previously known - are simply not good enough to wear the shirt of Leicester City testifies to a lack of the first requirement of good management - which is to sign effective players who will do what you ask and who will give you 7.5 good games out of 10.

But it doesn't end there and today added clear evidence. Having failed to learn on a previous occasion, Kelly chose to totally disrupt his back line instead of following his own supposed philosophy of being sensible and keeping it simple.

It is foolhardy to make so many changes with genuinely capable and versatile players. With such limited players as Leicester have it was suicidal to expect a completely re-arranged back four to somehow blend efficiently. It was a totally unrealistic ask and Kelly should have realised that from previous experience.

Of course Kelly is not solely to blame but it's his watch, he takes ultimate responsibility, he has had ample time to learn some of the simpler requirements of management and continuing to make excuses for the guy won't help our cause one bit.

In terms of organising interesting coaching exercises Kelly might have some ability, though it's hard to see the results. But in terms of picking, organising and inspiring players to get the most out of themselves and their colleagues he simply doesn't seem to have what it takes.

[Fatbloke]

I've consistently said that we are a division 2 club.

I don't mind us losing but I will not accept a team of players who look like they either don't give a shit about the club that we all love or quite frankly who are out of their depth.

From my perspective, the blame doesn't lie with Kelly as much as the players. He joined the club as a coach and had we had money he'd never have been manager.

The players joined the club to cross that white line on a Saturday afternoon. Unfortunately, the deal doesn't end there. Time to give methinks.

The problem we have, due to the takeover is that the manager, players and staff are de motivated, some of them know they are not part of MMs future plans and others are unsure, this is a real problem for us on field and off, how can we expect a manager who know`s he is about to be sacked motivate a bunch of players who also know they are not part of the clubs future plans ? we just have to limp over the line this season and look forward to a very interesting summer !

[Lets Be having You]

It would take a real run of form by the clubs bellow us to drag us down into the bottom three... but, we have a very nasty run of games comming up so there's always a chance, IMHO we need to get six points between now and the end of the season to be sure of security... but if we want to talk about "perspective" RK has over seen the worst football, the worst run of results this club has ever seen and at the same time the most unfit, unmotivated and il managed City team... so yes he should go, and thats been clear for a long time, but at the same time todays result was not unexpected on current form, but despite Rk's and some of the playing staff's best efforts to get us relegated the result doesnt change the fact that we "should" be ok... its not good, its not desirable... to be honest its a fu*king disgrace!! ...but even with our run of games the likes of QPR and Leeds have worse ahead of them, and we should be ok.

your to young to remember Frank mclintoks lot then,you think this lot are bad,but its about the same type of non football,crap,no tactics,old players playing for the cash,not playing for the shirt,i hope and prey,that milan does not keep kelly for much longer,cause it worries me what he will do with cash we have to spend on players,cause so far his loans and players he has bought to the club have been shite

[DB11]

I think that since MM has arrived, everybodys expectations have gone up a few notches, therefore at the hint of failure we want MM to get his infamous axe out!

[C-man]

11 Newcastle 31 7 5 4 23 18 3 2 10 11 22 -6 37

12 Middlesbrough 31 8 3 4 21 16 1 6 9 11 22 -6 36

13 Man City 30 5 4 6 10 13 5 2 8 13 21 -11 36

14 Fulham 31 6 6 4 15 14 1 8 6 17 31 -13 35

15 Aston Villa 30 6 5 4 15 12 1 8 6 14 23 -6 34

16 Wigan 31 5 3 7 14 20 4 3 9 16 25 -15 33

17 Sheff Utd 31 5 6 4 18 17 3 1 12 7 28 -20 31

18 Charlton 31 7 3 6 18 17 1 3 11 11 32 -20 30

19 West Ham 31 6 2 8 19 21 1 3 11 6 30 -26 26

20 Watford 31 2 7 7 13 21 1 4 10 6 26 -28 20

Right - we have a seven point gap and yet everyone (myself included) is calling for Kelly's neck.

Not quite the same in the Premiership is it?

I think it is time to have faith in other teams failing...

Thing is, I can actually see Newcastle, Boro, City, Fulham and Villa picking up a few points.

Can't say the same about Leicester

[Guest]

I think that since MM has arrived, everybodys expectations have gone up a few notches

Not really; my expectations were and are the same.

[davieG]

Some perspective:

Current Form

Hull have 9 points and are 9th in the current form table.

13 Leeds United 6 2 2 2 7 7 0 8

14 Southend 6 2 2 2 8 10 -2 8

15 Colchester 6 2 2 2 6 8 -2 8

16 Southampton 6 2 1 3 12 9 3 7

17 Cardiff City 6 2 1 3 8 8 0 7

18 QPR 6 1 3 2 8 8 0 6

19 Plymouth 6 1 3 2 6 10 -4 6

20 Barnsley 6 2 0 4 8 13 -5 6

21 WBA 6 1 2 3 7 9 -2 5

22 Burnley 6 0 3 3 1 5 -4 3

23 Leicester City 6 0 3 3 7 13 -6 3

24 Luton Town 6 0 1 5 5 11 -6 1

[Thracian]

The problem we have, due to the takeover is that the manager, players and staff are de motivated, some of them know they are not part of MMs future plans and others are unsure, this is a real problem for us on field and off, how can we expect a manager who know`s he is about to be sacked motivate a bunch of players who also know they are not part of the clubs future plans ? we just have to limp over the line this season and look forward to a very interesting summer !

Never truer words - and the remaining question as to whether we can limp across the line with the current mood prevailing?.

[Thracian]

your to young to remember Frank mclintoks lot then,you think this lot are bad,but its about the same type of non football,crap,no tactics,old players playing for the cash,not playing for the shirt,i hope and prey,that milan does not keep kelly for much longer,cause it worries me what he will do with cash we have to spend on players,cause so far his loans and players he has bought to the club have been shite

I'm old enough to have watched Frank McLintock wearing a City shirt as a player - and a brilliant one at that - but didn't see a single game of his managerial reign because I was coaching in Switzerland and Holland at the time. I did gather it was pretty grim - and thankfully short-lived - but my comment was based on what I'd actually seen.

[davieG]

The problem we have, due to the takeover is that the manager, players and staff are de motivated, some of them know they are not part of MMs future plans and others are unsure, this is a real problem for us on field and off, how can we expect a manager who know`s he is about to be sacked motivate a bunch of players who also know they are not part of the clubs future plans ? we just have to limp over the line this season and look forward to a very interesting summer !

A good reason then why MM should oust RK and get someone into play the younsters. Taggart's been a caretaker manager at Stoke and won his only game

[Hullfox]

But it doesn't end there and today added clear evidence. Having failed to learn on a previous occasion, Kelly chose to totally disrupt his back line instead of following his own supposed philosophy of being sensible and keeping it simple.

It is foolhardy to make so many changes with genuinely capable and versatile players. With such limited players as Leicester have it was suicidal to expect a completely re-arranged back four to somehow blend efficiently. It was a totally unrealistic ask and Kelly should have realised that from previous experience.

I don't follow what you mean about so many changes in the back four. Kenton and Kisnorbo played in the same positions against QPR whilst Maybury shifted to left back (a position he's played in many times in his career) finally, Stearman slotted in at Right Back where he's played most of his games for us.

This back four was not completely rearranged, three out of the four played last time out.

Kelly will be out the door soon and I wish him well elsewhere but don't for one moment think that MM's 3 year plan involves the promotion through the ranks of your beloved youth team. We are heading for a (hopefully) higher quality Mickey Adams type team of seasoned professionals who will be expected to get us out of the championship if we are lucky enough still to be in it next season.

Mandaric will not gamble on youth.

[davieG]

I don't follow what you mean about so many changes in the back four. Kenton and Kisnorbo played in the same positions against QPR whilst Maybury shifted to left back (a position he's played in many times in his career) finally, Stearman slotted in at Right Back where he's played most of his games for us.

This back four was not completely rearranged, three out of the four played last time out.

Kelly will be out the door soon and I wish him well elsewhere but don't for one moment think that MM's 3 year plan involves the promotion through the ranks of your beloved youth team. We are heading for a (hopefully) higher quality Mickey Adams type team of seasoned professionals who will be expected to get us out of the championship if we are lucky enough still to be in it next season.

Mandaric will not gamble on youth.

If that is the route and I don't doubt you I hope it's more of a Harry Rednapp promotion team than the real Micky Adams team of 'seasoned professionals' as in Kewown, Howey, Dabizas et al that didn't get or look like getting us promoted.

[Thracian]

I don't follow what you mean about so many changes in the back four. Kenton and Kisnorbo played in the same positions against QPR whilst Maybury shifted to left back (a position he's played in many times in his career) finally, Stearman slotted in at Right Back where he's played most of his games for us.

This back four was not completely rearranged, three out of the four played last time out.

Kelly will be out the door soon and I wish him well elsewhere but don't for one moment think that MM's 3 year plan involves the promotion through the ranks of your beloved youth team. We are heading for a (hopefully) higher quality Mickey Adams type team of seasoned professionals who will be expected to get us out of the championship if we are lucky enough still to be in it next season.

Mandaric will not gamble on youth.

Kenton was indifferent at centre-back against QPR and against Real Sociedad, has played there twice all season, and was obviously going to have trouble against Stoke. Maybury may have played left-back lots of times, but has never looked any good there for Leicester and was playing perfectly adequately at right back so why move him therefore changing both full-backs?

And deflecting the argument to involve the youth team serves no purpose. Yes, I am proud of our youth team and so are a good many others. But whe there are any should be in the first team is only down to whether I believe they are better than what we have at the moment as alternatives. It has nothing to do with my opinion should we have better players join the club.

As for the Mickey Adams seasoned professionals we saw what happened in the end with that policy both here and at Coventry. Whichever way the club goes - youth, experience or a mixture of both - it will always depend on the quality of those chosen and the impact of the manager in getting them to perform.

As for "youth" being a gamble, all football decisions are a gamble. And quality is quality whatever age the player.

[Geo V]

11 Newcastle 31 7 5 4 23 18 3 2 10 11 22 -6 37

12 Middlesbrough 31 8 3 4 21 16 1 6 9 11 22 -6 36

13 Man City 30 5 4 6 10 13 5 2 8 13 21 -11 36

14 Fulham 31 6 6 4 15 14 1 8 6 17 31 -13 35

15 Aston Villa 30 6 5 4 15 12 1 8 6 14 23 -6 34

16 Wigan 31 5 3 7 14 20 4 3 9 16 25 -15 33

17 Sheff Utd 31 5 6 4 18 17 3 1 12 7 28 -20 31

18 Charlton 31 7 3 6 18 17 1 3 11 11 32 -20 30

19 West Ham 31 6 2 8 19 21 1 3 11 6 30 -26 26

20 Watford 31 2 7 7 13 21 1 4 10 6 26 -28 20

Right - we have a seven point gap and yet everyone (myself included) is calling for Kelly's neck.

Not quite the same in the Premiership is it?

I think it is time to have faith in other teams failing...

I started a similar thread about "perspective" a week or two back http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=34796 and it does need us to give some thought to whats going on at the club and our ambitions at fans.

The least that we could expect is progression, even if its steady. At the moment RK has taken us backwards and what worries me more than anything is that its not a few new faces that we need but arguably about 20-25 transfers, half in and half out. My other concern is that MM isnt the type of chairman to say "Here you go manager, go and spend cash on our future by getting youngish players in". He is more likely to get more experienced or seasoned players in which means despite his 3 year plan, we wont have long to get the best out of these lads. Players in there mid early to mid 30s wont be any good to us in 3 years will they?!

Im looking forward to the summer for the player deals but I would really hope that we not only get a couple of our succesful academy team featuring amongst the first team squad but that we do get brave and buy some talented yougsters in addition to the experienced players we will no doubt be linked with.

[Fez of Mahrez]

And deflecting the argument to involve the youth team serves no purpose.

Good job you'd never do a thing like that, eh?

[Mort]

Im looking forward to the summer for the player deals

Not if we're in League One you wont.