It's the Ball that counted

[Thracian]

http://www.thebluearmy.co.uk/details.asp?k...742007339113431

Over the season I've heard so much about Weso and Porter being too small to cope against strapping opponents and have mentioned the likes of Alan Ball, Billy Bremner, David Batty, Johnny Giles as evidence that small can be brilliant.

Anyway, as tributes go, they don't come much convincing than from Banksy and we're talking about a level we've never achieved since.

Perhaps people will know now why I don't want any old timer stiffling the progress of our diminutive duo.

Not only did Ball cope with big, bustling opponents in an age when they could kick you for fun but the key was that when he got the ball he kept it rather than wasting it.

And that is the key to Weso's and Porter's games. In midfield neither of them panic. They pass the ball to a Leicester shirt instead of hoisting it up in the air to wherever it might land.

It is the secret of success as anyone who watched Sir Alf Ramsey's 4-3-3-team could clearly see.

When you compare the simple efficiency of his side to the sort of organisational shit which McLaren calls a "team" it's embarrassing. Don Revie had a similar approach. Little Bremner and Giles (with big Norman Hunter to help) were like orchestral conductors in midfield, dictating everything that went on.

And whenever the big strapping cloggers arrived, the ball had just gone. No-one retained possession like that Leeds team either before or since as I recall. Leicester could do the same because there's nothing any of the players mentioned could do that our lads can't. They just need a mixture of big, fast, strong, direct players around them.

But Weso, King, Porter in midfield, yes please.

[The People's Hero]

Both are decent players at this level... but I can't believe you just claimed that Porter does not waste possession.

[Phube]

http://www.thebluearmy.co.uk/details.asp?k...742007339113431

Did you write that???? If so you've missed off one of the best small player in recent history.... Zola!!

[Thracian]

Both are decent players at this level... but I can't believe you just claimed that Porter does not waste possession.

I said he doesn't waste possession in midfield.

I don't see him as a winger, never have. He's wasted on the wing because his options are too limited and he doesn't have the attributes of a genuine winger anyway. No-one does at our club apart from Gradel.

As a winger, Porter is obliged to try to cross the ball - especially in the glaring absence of runners off the ball. And he's crossing the ball into situations where we've no chance of winning it apart from when it's a set play and the big defenders have come up.

The difference between Ramsey, who achieved things, and our manager's who haven't is that Ramsey accepted the capabilities of his players and devised a system which suited them.

[The People's Hero]

Agreed about our managers when compared with Ramsey.

Should be ashamed of themselves really.

[Thracian]

Did you write that???? If so you've missed off one of the best small player in recent history.... Zola!!

Thanks for that Phube. Could there be a better example?. Any chance he might want a manager's job here?

Mind you, I might have to modify the bit about there being nothing those illustrious names did that our lads can't.

Cos Zola had truly wonderful skills and defined the words "positive" and "effect"..

[Chocolate Teapot]

The fact remains that he doesn't possess any outstanding quality to overcome his lack of height or strenght. (porter) You claim he never gives the ball away, maybe but I can't remember anything outstanding he has done this season. Weso is different, he is tough and disciplined.

I believe a small player if they are gonna to be a good player has to possess some outstanding quality, like Lennon and Wright Phillips with pace.

In this division, a midfield of weso, porteer and king would get the shit kicked out of them, every side that gets promoted out of here has a big side. Derby - Moore, Leacock, Howard. with oakley being hard as nails. I think we need to bring an entirely new midfield in really, bar weso.

[Chocolate Teapot]

Thanks for that Phube. Could there be a better example?. Any chance he might want a manager's job here?

err..... I don't think so

[Master Fox]

Thanks for that Phube. Could there be a better example?. Any chance he might want a manager's job here?

Tony Cottee.

[Thracian]

The fact remains that he doesn't possess any outstanding quality to overcome his lack of height or strenght. (porter) You claim he never gives the ball away, maybe but I can't remember anything outstanding he has done this season. Weso is different, he is tough and disciplined.

I believe a small player if they are gonna to be a good player has to possess some outstanding quality, like Lennon and Wright Phillips with pace.

In this division, a midfield of weso, porteer and king would get the shit kicked out of them, every side that gets promoted out of here has a big side. Derby - Moore, Leacock, Howard. with oakley being hard as nails. I think we need to bring an entirely new midfield in really, bar weso.

We've never played Porter in central midfield where he completely dictated play for the Reserves. His passing to right, left and centre was a delight.

Weso is a ball winner and passer. His strength is his accuracy, calmness and simplicity. Porter can open teams up with his passing as you will see when he gets the right runners around him.

My saying Porter is NOT a winger is nothing new. I said it BEFORE he played first team.

And that midfield wouldn't get kicked by anyone. Weso didn't get kicked to bits by Preston or Birmingham - top of the League teams - and King is a six footer anyway. People said the same about Mattock cos he was 16. But if anyone kicks Mattock I hope they don't mind getting kicked back.

I believe he might well whack his own players if they upset him let alone the opposition. He'd certainly let em know what he thought and it wouldn't be open to misunderstanding.

Leicester's Academy side hasn't won the League with 90-odd goals cos they're a lot of shrinking violets who just race forward and never have to win the ball.

All sorts of opposition teams - many from Premiership clubs - have tried to rattle their cages and kick them out of their stride. It doesn't work. And the reason is simple. They close down fast and when they win the ball they MOVE for each other, and in numbers.

Basically, our first team has been static until Worthington arrived. Most of the players are not clever enough to be good because that's what decent movement requires - a football brain - the ability to see possibilities. No-one can make subtle passes if the movement is not there in the first place.

[MBK]

Thanks for that Phube. Could there be a better example?. Any chance he might want a manager's job here?

Mind you, I might have to modify the bit about there being nothing those illustrious names did that our lads can't.

Cos Zola had truly wonderful skills and defined the words "positive" and "effect"..

Zola is my choice for manager. He is already technical director of Italy's U21 so comes with just about the same experience as Paul Ince with the difference that Zola is even cleverer. And secondly Zola would get us some players from Chelsea's reserves from reputation alone.

[Chairman of the Bored]

Good post Thracian.

We also had a pretty dynamic short arsed duo in the earlier 70s: Kellard and Carlin. Ball winners both and they could both play a bit. Neil Lennon isn't that tall either.

[Thracian]

Tony Cottee.

Hardly a midfielder but I wouldn't mind him here to teach our forwards about making dangerous runs into box and about timing. He was a master of the near post run and I'm not sure this Leicester team has even heard of that. He keeps in touch and I saw him at one of the games recently.

[Fox in a Box]

We have lost many a game recently throu playing small midget sized players porter, hume, weso.... a factor that cannot be underestimated.

mattock is a big lad and can handle himself against bigger oppoistion... and the horse is big and burley.... these kinda players are what we should be looking for next season.

[Geo V]

Forget the 70s and one off players like Zola, its very difficult for smalll players to make it in todays football unless you are an exceptional talent. Players like Jody Morris couldnt hack it in more recent times but I cant think of that many that have in recent history. at names from the 70s and before like Alan Ball being mentioned, the game may have changed since then !?

The coin is in the air regarding Weso and Levi. Levi seems to be a built little fooker and his position as a winger shouldnt be a problem for a short player. Weso at times plays beyond his size and seems to have a heart but I worry about him after suffering such terrible injuries at such a young age. They both have alot of improving to do thats for sure. especially Levi who gives the ball away far too easily. If you are going to be short you better be a speed merchant and have something about you in this land of giants so he would need to improve considerably to make it at the top level.

[mancunianfox]

We have lost many a game recently throu playing small midget sized players porter, hume, weso.... a factor that cannot be underestimated.

mattock is a big lad and can handle himself against bigger oppoistion... and the horse is big and burley.... these kinda players are what we should be looking for next season.

TBH I would have to agree with Thracian that the reason why we have lost games this season is because of lack of movement off the ball and not because of size. I think the idea that you have to be a strong muscular team to get out of this division is rubbish. Teams like Reading and Norwich have already shown that this isn't the case and that you can get promoted with a huge points tally by playing good football.

[Guest]

Leicester's Academy side hasn't won the League with 90-odd goals cos they're a lot of shrinking violets who just race forward and never have to win the ball.

No, but they did win in a league where most opposition players were younger than themselves, because we don't have a reserves team into which the better players should have been playing, unlike their contempories.

[The People's Hero]

The fact remains that he doesn't possess any outstanding quality to overcome his lack of height or strenght. (porter) You claim he never gives the ball away, maybe but I can't remember anything outstanding he has done this season. Weso is different, he is tough and disciplined.

I believe a small player if they are gonna to be a good player has to possess some outstanding quality, like Lennon and Wright Phillips with pace.

In this division, a midfield of weso, porteer and king would get the shit kicked out of them, every side that gets promoted out of here has a big side. Derby - Moore, Leacock, Howard. with oakley being hard as nails. I think we need to bring an entirely new midfield in really, bar weso.

Porter gives the ball away a lot.

A hell of a lot.

If he wasn't an academy product, Thracian would want him out.

I think he's okay. So so. Certainly not a superstar... but not the worst of the bunch either.

[The People's Hero]

No, but they did win in a league where most opposition players were younger than themselves, because we don't have a reserves team into which the better players should have been playing, unlike their contempories.

This has been mentioned a number of times. Thracian always ignores it.

We've got too much sense for this place Lisa. And the shocking thing is, we're in the minority.

[Thracian]

No, but they did win in a league where most opposition players were younger than themselves, because we don't have a reserves team into which the better players should have been playing, unlike their contempories.

Already been covered - they were next to top the previous season too with virtually the same personel so it's perfectly clear these lads are above average for their level and have been for a while.

And when we did have a reserves team, we often played much of the same side in both competitions because there seemed to be a policy not to play returning first team players in the Reserves unless they particularly requested/agreed to it.

Ridiculous, I know, and apologies if I'm wrong, but that seemed to be how it worked and it seemed to be implied at a supoporters meeting with the club when the subject of a reserves team was brought up.

This meant the crop who are in and around the first team now had considerable experience against strong/adult players whereas the next group will not have had anything like that opportunity.

[Geo V]

Porter gives the ball away a lot.

A hell of a lot.

If he wasn't an academy product, Thracian would want him out.

I think he's okay. So so. Certainly not a superstar... but not the worst of the bunch either.

I agree I havent been overly impressed in him during the games I have been at and he is over-rated but he is still young and I suppose growing so you never know how he might end up and how he will improve. One thing is certain is that if you play with better players you do improve. The best modern day example I can give is someone like Linvoy Primus down at Portsmouth. for most of his career at Barnet and Reading he did fook all and like a fine wine has got better with age (Im a beer man myself ). Its too early to send teenagers to teh scrap-heap although someone like Levi will have to improve significantly if he is to be a part of this clubs future and not end up like another Tommy Wright.

[blue blood]

The fact remains that he doesn't possess any outstanding quality to overcome his lack of height or strenght. (porter) You claim he never gives the ball away, maybe but I can't remember anything outstanding he has done this season. Weso is different, he is tough and disciplined.

I believe a small player if they are gonna to be a good player has to possess some outstanding quality, like Lennon and Wright Phillips with pace.

In this division, a midfield of weso, porteer and king would get the shit kicked out of them, every side that gets promoted out of here has a big side. Derby - Moore, Leacock, Howard. with oakley being hard as nails. I think we need to bring an entirely new midfield in really, bar weso.

derby scum may not get promoted

[The People's Hero]

I agree I havent been overly impressed in him during the games I have been at and he is over-rated but he is still young and I suppose growing so you never know how he might end up and how he will improve. One thing is certain is that if you play with better players you do improve. The best modern day example I can give is someone like Linvoy Primus down at Portsmouth. for most of his career at Barnet and Reading he did fook all and like a fine wine has got better with age (Im a beer man myself ). Its too early to send teenagers to teh scrap-heap although someone like Levi will have to improve significantly if he is to be a part of this clubs future and not end up like another Tommy Wright.

Exactly.

And what doesn't help young players improve?

Altogehter now....

'Bigging them up to expectations they simply cannot meet!'

[Thracian]

I agree I havent been overly impressed in him during the games I have been at and he is over-rated but he is still young and I suppose growing so you never know how he might end up and how he will improve. One thing is certain is that if you play with better players you do improve. The best modern day example I can give is someone like Linvoy Primus down at Portsmouth. for most of his career at Barnet and Reading he did fook all and like a fine wine has got better with age (Im a beer man myself ). Its too early to send teenagers to teh scrap-heap although someone like Levi will have to improve significantly if he is to be a part of this clubs future and not end up like another Tommy Wright.

I wouldn't play him as a winger in the first place and wouldn't have played 4-4-2 either. Nor would I have played static players, defensive left-backs, negative midfielders, people who weren't fit or strikers that weren't either fit or functioning.

Porter would have played in a three-man midfield with attacking full-backs and three strikers so he'd have been able to take his choice from a range of passes, attacks would have been pressed and we wouldn't have been begging for goals.

I agree about people improving by playing witb better players though - and Christiano Ronaldo is surely the best contemporary example. The bloke is barely recognisable from when he joined the club. United are brilliant at giving him early ball and finding him space to drive at people one v one. But then their players never stop moving for each other.

They've worked on making him 100% positive in everything he does, from the pace of his drive at people to his choice of final ball, be it pass or shot.

Porter is not the ideal but Maybury would stare at him for ages before he fed him the ball, meaning all the space was squezed. Speed of pass from defence is vital yet we have defenders who can't pass to save their lives and only Wesolowski's return has helped to counter that.

[The People's Hero]

Thracian - let me stop you there... you are talking rubbish.

Porter giving the ball away and making poor decisions is nothing to do with his team mates. Constantly when there are people in space, he'll try something stupid.

I don't want to get on his back, I think he has a decent future here... but everything you say about him is complete garbage and it won't help him one bit.