Thracian Posted 21 July 2007 Share Posted 21 July 2007 I'm going to have a sporting bet that even at this early stage that we never start with our strongest team next season. I simply don't believe that various "special situations" relating to contracts/wages/seniority will allow for selection entirely on merit. For a start everyone seems to be assuming Kisnorbo will be chosen. But he's been way below his best in the summer internationals and will be desperately in need of a break but, to some fans, the door is already locked on anyone else. Yet how will he fit into what is now so obviously a passing team whose defence has looked so good, generally, because the ball is played out quickly and on the floor?. Then there's central midfield. Clemence will play, Kishishev will play. So where does the best performer of all so far fit in - James Wesolowski? And, predictably, Porter has been quietly sidelined in many fans selections in favour of Hayes, but for what reason? Hayes had half a good game against Hinckley, was very average against Oadby and poor today whereas Porter's had two pretty good outings, passes the ball faster, gives it away less and covers more ground. And who will be our best strike pairing?. Hume's claim is beyond logical argument. But do we need a big man with him or fans favourite Fryatt, big transfer DJ or AN Other. Damned difficult that one because no-one has genuinely staked a claim although a £1.6m+ transfer suggests DJ will. But are they the best combination? And what about the unseen Ka'ebi appearing in so many teams?. Does anyone truly know he's better than the so-far impressive Chambers at right back or more accomplished than Newton/Gradel on the right wing? Those clips of Ka'ebi looked impressive but some of the Asian Cup reports sounded less complimentary and the guy has had no experience of English football so far. To pencil him in "unseen" seems so presumptious and rather just like assuming Nielsen was our best goalkeeper. I realise the above are provocative comments but MA's going to need the wisdom of Solomon to choose our very best side out of even what we've got so far. And, as others arrive it will be even harder. But, just for interests sake I've tried to compile a combined rating out of 10 for all the main players' contributions so far. This is what I've come up with. Logan ................. 6.5 Nielsen ............... 5.5 Henderson ...........6.0 J. Chambers.........7.0 Stearman............ 7.0 N'Gotty ............... 8.0 McAuley............... 6.0 Mattock ...............6.5 Sheehan ........... ..6.5 Beswick................6.25 Newton.................6.50 Gradel..................6.50 Clemence.............6.75 Kishishev..............7.25 Wesolowski...........8.0. Porter...................6.75 Hayes...................6.25 Hellings.................6.0 Hume....................8.5 Fryatt....................6.75 DeVries.................7.25 Cort......................5.5 Hammond..............6.75 Odhiambo..............6.25 Sappleton..............6.00 DJ Campbell..........5.50 Ashley Chambers...6.25 Billy McKay............6.25 Maybury................5.0 Hughes..................5.5 I've tried to base the above entirely on their achievement in the matches so far. I'm fairly happy about eight or nine players I'd like in the side (up to now) but the other two, and which combination of those players is best, is far more tricky and I'm by no means certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filbertway Posted 21 July 2007 Share Posted 21 July 2007 I'm going to have a sporting bet that even at this early stage that we never start with our strongest team next season.I simply don't believe that various "special situations" relating to contracts/wages/seniority will allow for selection entirely on merit. For a start everyone seems to be assuming Kisnorbo will be chosen. But he's been way below his best in the summer internationals and will be desperately in need of a break but, to some fans, the door is already locked on anyone else. Yet how will he fit into what is now so obviously a passing team whose defence has looked so good, generally, because the ball is played out quickly and on the floor?. Then there's central midfield. Clemence will play, Kishishev will play. So where does the best performer of all so far fit in - James Wesolowski? Isn't he suspened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted 21 July 2007 Share Posted 21 July 2007 Isn't he suspened? Sure is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 21 July 2007 Author Share Posted 21 July 2007 Sure is But I wasn't talking specifically about the first game of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobbo Posted 21 July 2007 Share Posted 21 July 2007 Well on todays outing, get Hendo in there. The only players I would put as starters in my team at the moment for the season are N'Gotty, Kisnorbo, Clemence, Newton and Hume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filbertway Posted 21 July 2007 Share Posted 21 July 2007 But I wasn't talking specifically about the first game of the season. Oh right, just seemed like you were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBK Posted 22 July 2007 Share Posted 22 July 2007 Weso/Gradel/Stearman/Mattock etc's target should be to establish themselves in MA/fans' eyes as capable players over a whole season. I'm confident they will come good through extra motivation to work hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hullfox Posted 22 July 2007 Share Posted 22 July 2007 I'm going to have a sporting bet that even at this early stage that we never start with our strongest team next season. How do you start to quantify strongest team? Your strongest team will (and I'll have a sporting bet on this) not be the same as my strongest team. I dare say that both of those line ups will differ from Martin Allen's strongest team and at the end of the day it's his job to pick it so lets let him get on with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zingari Posted 22 July 2007 Share Posted 22 July 2007 How do you start to quantify strongest team?Your strongest team will (and I'll have a sporting bet on this) not be the same as my strongest team. I dare say that both of those line ups will differ from Martin Allen's strongest team and at the end of the day it's his job to pick it so lets let him get on with it. yes , its not like picking a tug of war team is it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez of Mahrez Posted 22 July 2007 Share Posted 22 July 2007 Your strongest team last season included at least one player who'd never started a first team game for us and at times two. You're welcome to your opinions but don't go around with this "our strongest team" bollocks. It's only your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 22 July 2007 Share Posted 22 July 2007 To paraphrase Cobbo: On todays outing, the only players I would put as starters in my team at the moment for the season are N'Gotty, Clemence, and Hume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez of Mahrez Posted 22 July 2007 Share Posted 22 July 2007 To paraphrase Cobbo:On todays outing, the only players I would put as starters in my team at the moment for the season are N'Gotty, Clemence, and Hume. Cue Thracian essay about shooting ourselves in the foot by only fielding three players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 22 July 2007 Share Posted 22 July 2007 If he has no vision then that's his problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coale39 Posted 22 July 2007 Share Posted 22 July 2007 Those clips of Ka'ebi looked impressive but some of the Asian Cup reports sounded less complimentary and the guy has had no experience of English football so far. To pencil him in "unseen" seems so presumptious and rather just like assuming Nielsen was our best goalkeeper. Out of interest, when does Ka'ebi come back from the Asian cup? Will we see him in any friendlys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluefoxtim Posted 22 July 2007 Share Posted 22 July 2007 Out of interest, when does Ka'ebi come back from the Asian cup? Will we see him in any friendlys? They have just been knocked out...so should be within a couple of weeks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coale39 Posted 22 July 2007 Share Posted 22 July 2007 They have just been knocked out...so should be within a couple of weeks? Yeah just seen that. Prob for the Portsmouth game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candidcamera Posted 22 July 2007 Share Posted 22 July 2007 I think that Kaebi will have to adjust but with his talent and talking about a season long team I would expect to see him as a regular. I too don't want the good youngsters to be playing second fiddle. Lets hope he chooses the team on merit not on any other criteria. If we had one legacy from the last 2 seasons it was the youngsters. I do hope we keep Fryatt for the same reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chesterfox Posted 22 July 2007 Share Posted 22 July 2007 I'm going to have a sporting bet that even at this early stage that we never start with our strongest team next season.I simply don't believe that various "special situations" relating to contracts/wages/seniority will allow for selection entirely on merit. For a start everyone seems to be assuming Kisnorbo will be chosen. But he's been way below his best in the summer internationals and will be desperately in need of a break but, to some fans, the door is already locked on anyone else. Yet how will he fit into what is now so obviously a passing team whose defence has looked so good, generally, because the ball is played out quickly and on the floor?. Then there's central midfield. Clemence will play, Kishishev will play. So where does the best performer of all so far fit in - James Wesolowski? And, predictably, Porter has been quietly sidelined in many fans selections in favour of Hayes, but for what reason? Hayes had half a good game against Hinckley, was very average against Oadby and poor today whereas Porter's had two pretty good outings, passes the ball faster, gives it away less and covers more ground. And who will be our best strike pairing?. Hume's claim is beyond logical argument. But do we need a big man with him or fans favourite Fryatt, big transfer DJ or AN Other. Damned difficult that one because no-one has genuinely staked a claim although a £1.6m+ transfer suggests DJ will. But are they the best combination? And what about the unseen Ka'ebi appearing in so many teams?. Does anyone truly know he's better than the so-far impressive Chambers at right back or more accomplished than Newton/Gradel on the right wing? Those clips of Ka'ebi looked impressive but some of the Asian Cup reports sounded less complimentary and the guy has had no experience of English football so far. To pencil him in "unseen" seems so presumptious and rather just like assuming Nielsen was our best goalkeeper. I realise the above are provocative comments but MA's going to need the wisdom of Solomon to choose our very best side out of even what we've got so far. And, as others arrive it will be even harder. But, just for interests sake I've tried to compile a combined rating out of 10 for all the main players' contributions so far. This is what I've come up with. Logan ................. 6.5 Nielsen ............... 5.5 Henderson ...........6.0 J. Chambers.........7.0 Stearman............ 7.0 N'Gotty ............... 8.0 McAuley............... 6.0 Mattock ...............6.5 Sheehan ........... ..6.5 Beswick................6.25 Newton.................6.50 Gradel..................6.50 Clemence.............6.75 Kishishev..............7.25 Wesolowski...........8.0. Porter...................6.75 Hayes...................6.25 Hellings.................6.0 Hume....................8.5 Fryatt....................6.75 DeVries.................7.25 Cort......................5.5 Hammond..............6.75 Odhiambo..............6.25 Sappleton..............6.00 DJ Campbell..........5.50 Ashley Chambers...6.25 Billy McKay............6.25 Maybury................5.0 Hughes..................5.5 I've tried to base the above entirely on their achievement in the matches so far. I'm fairly happy about eight or nine players I'd like in the side (up to now) but the other two, and which combination of those players is best, is far more tricky and I'm by no means certain. I don't believe these to be remotely controversial rather confirmation of the changes going on within the club - more confirmation that it is a long season, key players lose form and having alternatives always keeps your 'best' players on their toes. Kisnorbo for example has two choices he can sulk and throw his dummy out or - and this is the more likely - he will roll his sleeves up show MA what he is made of and keep the captaincy and perform even better. Some games it might prove sensible to play one formation - the point is we now have choice and range. I'd certainly agree that Porter has a role, but each member of the side has to prove their worth rather than turn up and expect a place. Those days seem gone - welcome the new MA era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebatt Posted 22 July 2007 Share Posted 22 July 2007 helo all first time virgin,anyway we guess all we want but let MA get on with it he gets paid big bucks to pick team, lets just sit back enjoy first game of season, when we win brill if we don't lets not panic cause if they play crap all hell will break loose in that dressing room for once instead of the usual excuse of lets take the possitives out the game. I don't believe these to be remotely controversial rather confirmation of the changes going on within the club - more confirmation that it is a long season, key players lose form and having alternatives always keeps your 'best' players on their toes. Kisnorbo for example has two choices he can sulk and throw his dummy out or - and this is the more likely - he will roll his sleeves up show MA what he is made of and keep the captaincy and perform even better. Some games it might prove sensible to play one formation - the point is we now have choice and range. I'd certainly agree that Porter has a role, but each member of the side has to prove their worth rather than turn up and expect a place. Those days seem gone - welcome the new MA era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filbertway Posted 22 July 2007 Share Posted 22 July 2007 helo all first time virgin,anyway we guess all we want but let MA get on with it he gets paid big bucks to pick team, lets just sit back enjoy first game of season, when we win brill if we don't lets not panic cause if they play crap all hell will break loose in that dressing room for once instead of the usual excuse of lets take the possitives out the game. Where are you from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Happy Posted 22 July 2007 Share Posted 22 July 2007 Your strongest team last season included at least one player who'd never started a first team game for us and at times two. You're welcome to your opinions but don't go around with this "our strongest team" bollocks. It's only your opinion. Maybe its not about our 'strongest team' but our most passionate XI If RF had of come to us, whos to say that while undoubtedly he would have been one of our best players but instead of playing with 110% week in, week out like some of the younger hungrier players - he'd just go and sit on the physio table whenever the heat got too hot for him to handle? After we already have some 30+ players who are more than happy enough to collect their wages from us whilst not actually doing anything! Each of our players, new and old - have differing abilities, key strengths, weakness's etc - for instance out of all our strikers i'd say that the two up front will most likely be Hume and Campbell but both lack height so we replace one of them with MDV who is our tallest striker, yet Hume's by far better in the air than he is! So you play Hume up front, but then who plays along side him? Ok lets go with Campbell (because he cost £1.6mil approx and everybody seems to think that his price tag guarantees him a starting place) but whos to say he'll compliment Hume any better than Hammond, Odihambo, Fryatt or even MDV would! Whilst many fans have already ruled Nielsen has the new No1 keeper next season, his pre-season matches havn't been that good. Reports also suggest that he isn't good at corners or crosses but does this make him any less of a No1 choice than Hendo, who isn't that good at punting the ball out in a straight line? Whos to even say that last seasons academy keeper won't get our No1 jersey - he had an awesome season with the academy didnt he? Each of our players should be judged upon by their performances in pre-season training and friendlies I believe, after all this is supposed to be a fresh start under the MM rein so I reckon we should forget what players have done in previous seasons (maybe thats harsh on some, but if we're willing to welcome the transfer listed players back into the flock then surely we should wipe every players slate clean so they all have a fair chance to prove their worth?) Just because a player is quality stuff or cost tons of cash doesn't mean he'll put his life and soul into helping the club achieve their ambitions (Akin'bad'buyi anbody?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GianEmmo Zola Posted 22 July 2007 Share Posted 22 July 2007 ive booked 2 days of work to go to cheltenham with my mate hope kaabi plays there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnup Posted 22 July 2007 Share Posted 22 July 2007 ive booked 2 days of work to go to cheltenham with my mate hope kaabi plays there! been watching videos of him and he sure does look class. Admit he'll take time to adjust but he's got to be starting 11. Him and Chambers could do dome real work on that flank. Can see Allen likeing DeVries, likes a big lad in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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