Tim Cahill gesture

[Babylon]

There was nothing wrong with the actual gesture. The problem was coming out and saying what it was all about, he should have just said it's a private matter. If it was meant for his brother alone then he would have known what it meant had he seen it.

[SOCCERROO FOX]

You're either in denial or you're a £10 Pom.

The vast majority of Australians have a complex about their origins. Amongst themsevles they try to laugh off the fact that they are descended from mudererers, swindlers and prostitutes. But it's a different story when they come into contact with Brits. All of a sudden they become VERY touchy about it.

And that's why 'Pommie Bashing' is their real national game.

Re-Read what you just wrote.

You are the biggest Di ck Head ever if you think any one gives two hoots about 300+ years ago.

You must think all Australians shit around a pub thinking geez Criminals founded this country. If so you really are a creep.

I also take it you haven't been to Australia before or know Australians. Cos we really couldn't give a toss about history at all.

Our

[DanTheFoxBhoy]

You're either in denial or you're a £10 Pom.

The vast majority of Australians have a complex about their origins. Amongst themsevles they try to laugh off the fact that they are descended from mudererers, swindlers and prostitutes. But it's a different story when they come into contact with Brits. All of a sudden they become VERY touchy about it.

And that's why 'Pommie Bashing' is their real national game.

So on one hand you say that most Australians you've met are of Irish descent and pissed at the English establishment, and on the other hand you say that they are descended from "mudererers, swindlers and prostitutes", who are not representative of the Irish free agricultural settlers at all?

You haven't thought this through, have you chump?

[SOCCERROO FOX]

So on one hand you say that most Australians you've met are of Irish descent and pissed at the English establishment, and on the other hand you say that they are descended from "mudererers, swindlers and prostitutes", who are not representative of the Irish free agricultural settlers at all?

You haven't thought this through, have you chump?

Justin, You fancying going for a beer and chatting about our hatred for all Englishmen?

[DanTheFoxBhoy]

Justin, You fancying going for a beer and chatting about our hatred for all Englishmen?

Why that sounds splendid old chap. I say, did you know my twelve times great grandfather was a swindler? Let's celebrate my complex by belting an Englishman on the way to the pub.

[SOCCERROO FOX]

Why that sounds splendid old chap. I say, did you know my twelve times great grandfather was a swindler? Let's celebrate my complex by belting an Englishman on the way to the pub.

Rightio half twelve then

[DanTheFoxBhoy]

Rightio half twelve then

I'd much prefer to belt some Croatians to tell you the truth. We got jumped by some prepubescent Knights fans on the way out of our Richmond fixture at the Kevin Bartlett last Friday night. Got a couple of em good and proper though

[SOCCERROO FOX]

I'd much prefer to belt some Croatians to tell you the truth. We got jumped by some prepubescent Knights fans on the way out of our Richmond fixture at the Kevin Bartlett last Friday night. Got a couple of em good and proper though

Serious, What C*nts, I take it u going to see us beat Chunham dragons on Wednesday night Asian Champions leg here we come

[The Reverend]

You're either in denial or you're a £10 Pom.

The vast majority of Australians have a complex about their origins. Amongst themsevles they try to laugh off the fact that they are descended from mudererers, swindlers and prostitutes. But it's a different story when they come into contact with Brits. All of a sudden they become VERY touchy about it.

And that's why 'Pommie Bashing' is their real national game.

I love it how Chandler thinks hes some sort of grand master of the universe, who thinks he knows everything! Hes actually telling people what they think, and arguing with them about it!

Genius!

[Chandler]

So on one hand you say that most Australians you've met are of Irish descent and pissed at the English establishment, and on the other hand you say that they are descended from "mudererers, swindlers and prostitutes", who are not representative of the Irish free agricultural settlers at all?

You haven't thought this through, have you chump?

I've been looking forward to this...

First of all a mini lecture in semantics for our Antipodean oaf. Let's look at what I actually said about Australians of Irish descent:

I've seen too many Oz pilgrims (particularly those of Irish descent) on the Euro tour with chips on their shoulders about their cut throat ancestors' enforced transport to Botany Bay.

Note that I did not say that the majority of Australians that I'd met were of Irish descent and neither did I say that Irish Australians were descended from "mudererers, swindlers and prostitutes" (though in actual fact a sizeable proportion of them are).

Now for that history lesson that you spent wanking under your desk.

Between the period 1890 -1870 around 50,000 Irish convicts (a small but a significant minority of these were political prisoners - the vast majority though, were hardened criminals) were transported to Australia - an ethnic population which, at any one time, accounted for roughly a quarter of those held in the Australian penal colonies.

The earliest Irish free settlers (emigrating c. 1800) were almost all artisans and professionals and there were very few of them. During the potato famine up to 25,000 Irish emigrated to Australia and it is from this later group that most of the free agricultural settlers came. Following these arrivals in the latter half of the 19th century came a great wave of Irish migration (some estimates place the total number as high as 300,000 but in all probability this is an inflated figure) but the majority here were young single women who tended to marry into the general (ie non Irish) population.

Contrary to the crap that the likes of Peter Carey et al put out about the 'Irish condition' in 19th century Australia (bit of a conincidence that Ned Kelly's father was an Irish convict) their situation there was infinitely preferable to what it had been in Ireland. Most Irish were not impoverished agriculturalists: they were propserous urbanites.

And now for your intellectual beating up:

Have you ever wondered about this joke?

Q. How can you tell a well balanced Australian?

A. He's got a chip on both shoulders!

Interesting that this little witticism isn't applied to the more recent settlers of that former overseas part of New South Wales now called New Zealand. After all, they do inhabit a similar part of the world, have been there for a similar length of time and have a similar relationship with the UK. It would appear then, that Aussies and Kiwi's have a lot in common. But there's a subtle but significant difference in their histories that explains why many of the former bear grudges and why most of the latter are (relatively speaking) more serene.

Now my ignorant, Croat thumping chump guess what that difference is...

[Webbo]

<ramblings of a fool>

Chandler you do talk some shit, but you do entertain me.

[Chandler]

Chandler you do talk some shit, but you do entertain me.

Which is of course a backhanded way of saying that you agree with me - after all, it doesn't do one's image any good to be seen agreeing with the likes of me.

Far better to be 'at one with the ******...'

[Webbo]

Which is of course a backhanded way of saying that you agree with me - after all, it doesn't do one's image any good to be seen agreeing with the likes of me.

Far better to be 'at one with the ******...'

If you say so.

[SOCCERROO FOX]

<Blah Blah Blah im a tw at Blah Blah BLah

[DanTheFoxBhoy]

I've seen too many Oz pilgrims (particularly those of Irish descent) on the Euro tour with chips on their shoulders about their cut throat ancestors' enforced transport to Botany Bay.

Note that I did not say that the majority of Australians that I'd met were of Irish descent and neither did I say that Irish Australians were descended from "mudererers, swindlers and prostitutes" (though in actual fact a sizeable proportion of them are).

Wrong, unless you consider around 15% a sizeable portion. A similar portion to what I would expect from other ethic "swindlers" in Australia at the time. You seem to talk less shit regarding history than you do on the Australian 'chip' phenomenon, so I'll assume you understand percentages.

Between the period 1890 -1870 around 50,000 Irish convicts (a small but a significant minority of these were political prisoners - the vast majority though, were hardened criminals) were transported to Australia - an ethnic population which, at any one time, accounted for roughly a quarter of those held in the Australian penal colonies.

The earliest Irish free settlers (emigrating c. 1800) were almost all artisans and professionals and there were very few of them. During the potato famine up to 25,000 Irish emigrated to Australia and it is from this later group that most of the free agricultural settlers came. Following these arrivals in the latter half of the 19th century came a great wave of Irish migration (some estimates place the total number as high as 300,000 but in all probability this is an inflated figure) but the majority here were young single women who tended to marry into the general (ie non Irish) population.

Contrary to the crap that the likes of Peter Carey et al put out about the 'Irish condition' in 19th century Australia (bit of a conincidence that Ned Kelly's father was an Irish convict) their situation there was infinitely preferable to what it had been in Ireland. Most Irish were not impoverished agriculturalists: they were propserous urbanites.

Well done. But I still ask the question as to why, then, Australians have this 'chip' when i) the convicts (Irish at least) were in the minority against the free, agricultural, and government assisted immigrants, and ii) it happened 150 years ago (in no one's living memory)?

Tell me, do you have a chip against the Danes for invading Leicester? After all, that only happened like 1000 years ago.

Almost 50% of Australians living here atm were not born here, or are children of parents who were not born here. Consider those ethnic communities into Australia, you know, the ones who have arrived in recent memory, e.g. Italian, Greek, Maltese, Balkans etc. and whether they would have the same 'chip'?

Perhaps your mistake is that you are using Sydney as a base point for your argument. They pretend they're bourgeois while they bash lebos on their beaches. A shit bridge doesn't make a city. I'm happy to live in Australia's bohemian capital. Melbourne beaches are for everyone

Q. How can you tell a well balanced Australian?

A. He's got a chip on both shoulders!

Interesting that this little witticism isn't applied to the more recent settlers of that former overseas part of New South Wales now called New Zealand. After all, they do inhabit a similar part of the world, have been there for a similar length of time and have a similar relationship with the UK. It would appear then, that Aussies and Kiwi's have a lot in common. But there's a subtle but significant difference in their histories that explains why many of the former bear grudges and why most of the latter are (relatively speaking) more serene.

Now my ignorant, Croat thumping chump guess what that difference is...

The difference is the Kiwis have an inferiority complex. You might know something about that.

[BigGibbo]

As I said, Cahill minor can offer private support to undeserving, cowardly Cahill major - there's no need to advertise it and bring more trauma to the victim and his family.

And why do I get the feeling that if his big bro was a paedo Tim would be a little more circumspect in his 'support?'

If the Mail hadn't sensationalized it because they had nothing else they deemed worthy to write about then the victims family wouldn't of even found out about it let alone been caused any more unnecessary trauma. The suggestible tabloid swallowing public would of been none the wiser as to what the celebration meant if they hadn't got someone to dig up all the info!

[Chandler]

Wrong, unless you consider around 15% a sizeable portion. A similar portion to what I would expect from other ethic "swindlers" in Australia at the time. You seem to talk less shit regarding history than you do on the Australian 'chip' phenomenon, so I'll assume you understand percentages.

Well done. But I still ask the question as to why, then, Australians have this 'chip' when i) the convicts (Irish at least) were in the minority against the free, agricultural, and government assisted immigrants, and ii) it happened 150 years ago (in no one's living memory)?

Tell me, do you have a chip against the Danes for invading Leicester? After all, that only happened like 1000 years ago.

Almost 50% of Australians living here atm were not born here, or are children of parents who were not born here. Consider those ethnic communities into Australia, you know, the ones who have arrived in recent memory, e.g. Italian, Greek, Maltese, Balkans etc. and whether they would have the same 'chip'?

Perhaps your mistake is that you are using Sydney as a base point for your argument. They pretend they're bourgeois while they bash lebos on their beaches. A shit bridge doesn't make a city. I'm happy to live in Australia's bohemian capital. Melbourne beaches are for everyone

The difference is the Kiwis have an inferiority complex. You might know something about that.

Good to see that you've signalled a tactical retreat. So it's time for me to call up my cavalry and rout what's left of your bedraggled intellectual forces (sorry, but I love my military metaphors). Hate to tell you this ol chum but you could have avoided this massacre if you'd thought a little about my post that you've just quoted from.

The reason why, in general, Kiwi's (and I mean here New Zealanders descended from British/Irish settlers) are perhaps more well disposed to the 'Motherland' (and its citizens) is because their forebears weren't forced to go to New Zealand and, perhaps more crucially, they weren't prevented from returning. You see there were no penal colonies in New Zealand. (did you know that even Maori prisoners of war were transported to New South Wales?).

Now, on to your point about why so many Aussies (and Im talking here about Australians who can claim descent from the 200,000 convicts transported there - and that is about 75% of the current population) have a chip on their shoulder about events that took place such a long, long time ago. How is this possible? I'll tell you why in a mo.

First you need to be persuaded that your fellow country men really do have chip. Best way of doing that of course is pointing out some other people that have an even bigger one - like say the descendents of African slaves now living in America. Many African American political figures are campaigning for reparations to be paid to the descendents of victims of a trade that ended 200 years ago.

In Oz, this whole transport thing has been fanned by certain politicans over the last three decades who want white Australians to feel victims of 'British Imperialism' just as much as the Aboriginals do. It's all part of the Republican agenda (and with the new arrivals from Asia many white Australians suddenly hanker after Queen and Commonwealth again I wonder why?). Nothing like raking over the past and making your people feel bitter and twisted to advance a cause.

Which takes me a long way off the point at issue. SO, MY FINAL WORDS ON THE MATTER. Tim Cahill aint the only sportsman on the scene who appears to have had a morality bypass. A certain snooker player springs to mind who seems to have a very laissez faire attitude to MURDER (when committed by a member of his own family). Curiously, the media seem to come over all touchy and feely about this case (even publishing photos of Ronnies senior and junior having a spot of hi jinx in Gartree prison).

With such double standards in our press it's hardly surprising then that lonely Tim went a little off message...

[Manwell Pablo]

have you been to New Zealand chandler?? Kiwis aren't as placid as you might think.

[Bellend Sebastian]

I know a New Zealander. Lovely bloke. Very rarely washes, but that's nothing to do with where he's from

[SOCCERROO FOX]

have you been to New Zealand chandler?? Kiwis aren't as placid as you might think.

Kiwis are bouncers at almost every club in Melbourne

[DanTheFoxBhoy]

Good to see that you've signalled a tactical retreat. So it's time for me to call up my cavalry and rout what's left of your bedraggled intellectual forces (sorry, but I love my military metaphors). Hate to tell you this ol chum but you could have avoided this massacre if you'd thought a little about my post that you've just quoted from.

The reason why, in general, Kiwi's (and I mean here New Zealanders descended from British/Irish settlers) are perhaps more well disposed to the 'Motherland' (and its citizens) is because their forebears weren't forced to go to New Zealand and, perhaps more crucially, they weren't prevented from returning. You see there were no penal colonies in New Zealand. (did you know that even Maori prisoners of war were transported to New South Wales?).

If you had any tact whatsoever, you would have taken my comment on Kiwi inferiority to be light humour that was meant to save you the hassle of actually typing all that out. Needless to say, I think you're full of crap, and that's all I have to say on that particular issue.

Now, on to your point about why so many Aussies (and Im talking here about Australians who can claim descent from the 200,000 convicts transported there - and that is about 75% of the current population) have a chip on their shoulder about events that took place such a long, long time ago. How is this possible? I'll tell you why in a mo.

First you need to be persuaded that your fellow country men really do have chip. Best way of doing that of course is pointing out some other people that have an even bigger one - like say the descendents of African slaves now living in America. Many African American political figures are campaigning for reparations to be paid to the descendents of victims of a trade that ended 200 years ago.

In Oz, this whole transport thing has been fanned by certain politicans over the last three decades who want white Australians to feel victims of 'British Imperialism' just as much as the Aboriginals do. It's all part of the Republican agenda (and with the new arrivals from Asia many white Australians suddenly hanker after Queen and Commonwealth again I wonder why?). Nothing like raking over the past and making your people feel bitter and twisted to advance a cause.

Which takes me a long way off the point at issue. SO, MY FINAL WORDS ON THE MATTER. Tim Cahill aint the only sportsman on the scene who appears to have had a morality bypass. A certain snooker player springs to mind who seems to have a very laissez faire attitude to MURDER (when committed by a member of his own family). Curiously, the media seem to come over all touchy and feely about this case (even publishing photos of Ronnies senior and junior having a spot of hi jinx in Gartree prison).

With such double standards in our press it's hardly surprising then that lonely Tim went a little off message...

Well, that really is just... shit. Let's forget your gross overestimation of the current percentage of Australians descended from your swindlers, and move right on to your inept analysis of the Australian condition.

The reason African Americans are so pissed off is because up until the 1960's they were heavily discriminated against. Convict Australia became the establishment. Australia had the earliest Labor government in the whole world - did you know that? It certainly didn't come about because descendents of swindlers were sitting around feeling sorry for themselves.

Now let's move on to the fact that Australia had an obsession with Britain up until the 1960's. The monarchy, the accent (it was actually uncommon to hear the Australian accent on national TV until the 1970's because it was considered uncouth) - we couldn't get enough. Then we found weed, LSD and rock music, and suddenly the establishment didn't seem so cool anymore. In the 1980's we got a womanising, boozer of a Prime Minister who had the rockiest Aussie accent ever heard and we ditched God Save the Queen as the national anthem.

But those weren't recent development according to you. A distaste for the English was always engrained in us because of some 200 year old grudge, and our distaste and victim mentality is driving the change, as opposed to natural progression