Darling, I think you have a problem.

[Daggers]

ECONOMY

The chancellor said UK GDP contracted by 0.5% in the three months to September and economic growth this year is forecast to be 0.75% - down from the 2.5% he predicted in March. He said GDP growth for 2009 forecast to be between -0.75% and -1.25%, with inflation forecast to come down sharply, reaching 0.5% by the end of next year. In 2010 growth is forecast at between 1.5% and 2% - Mr Darling said the economy would continue to recover after that. He told MPs the PBR represented a £20bn fiscal stimulus between now and April 2010, 1% of GDP.

BORROWING

Borrowing would reach £78bn this year, £118bn next year - equivalent to 8% of GDP. Mr Darling said that was the "right choice for the country". He said borrowing would fall from 2010 to £105bn, then to £87bn, £70bn and then £54bn so by 2016 Britain would once again be borrowing only to invest. UK net debt as a share of GDP will be 41% this year, 48% next year, then 53% and 57% in subsequent years.

SPENDING

£3bn capital spending is to be brought forward from 2010/11. The money will be used to increase motorway capacity, improve and build new social housing, renew primary and secondary schools and invest in energy efficiency measures.

VAT

VAT to be cut from 17.5% to 15% from next Monday for 13 months. The chancellor urges retailers to pass it on as soon as they can. Alcohol and tobacco prices will not fall as duty on them will be increased to match the VAT cut.

INCOME TAX

A new 45% higher income tax rate is proposed for earnings above £150,000 from April 2011. Mr Darling says it will impact on 1% of people. The £120 rebate for basic rate taxpayers, introduced in the wake of the 10p tax row, is made permanent and increased to £145 from April. Mr Darling says it will benefit 22 million households - an extra 500,000 - "not just this year but for good". From April 2011 all rates of National Insurance contributions to be increased by 0.5% for all employees and employers. The starting point is to be raised to that of income tax - Mr Darling says no-one on less than £20,000 will see their NI contributions increase.

TAX CREDITS AND ALLOWANCES

The pension credit will be increased in April from £124 to £130 a week for individuals and from £189 to £198 for couples. State pensions to rise in line with highest rate of inflation - an increase of £4.55 a week for a single person. Pension and child benefit increases will take effect in January, three months early, and every pensioner gets a one-off payment of £60 from January while couples get £120.

FUEL AND VEHICLE EXCISE DUTY

The differential first-year rates on new cars will go ahead in April 2010 - but controversial new rates for older cars will be phased in. Duty rates for all cars will only increase by maximum of £5 from next year. In 2010 the maximum rise will be limited to £30 per car, rather than £90.

AIR PASSENGER DUTY

While there had been support to reform APD to become a "tax per plane" rather than per person, the chancellor said that could harm the aviation industry which was facing "huge problems". Instead APD is to be reformed so that those who travel the furthest - and who have a bigger environmental impact - meet the cost, he said.

GREEN MEASURES

An extra £100m is to be provided, with a further £50m brought forward, to help 60,000 more households insulate their homes. Mr Darling said the government would invest £535m more quickly on energy efficiency, rail transport and environmental protection.

BUSINESS TAXES

Exemption for foreign dividends for large and medium sized businesses confirmed, introduced in 2009. Small firms to get a temporary increase in threshold for empty property relief. Also struggling businesses able to spread their VAT, corporation tax and NI contribution payments over a longer timetable. Rise in small business profits tax delayed for 2009.

HOUSING MARKET

Major mortgage providers have agreed to wait three months after falling into arrears before initiating repossession proceedings. The government will also seek European Commission approval to help the mortgage market by providing for a temporary period guarantees for securities backed by new mortgages.

EMPLOYMENT

New initiative to fill 500,000 job vacancies with 20 major employers by speeding up recruitment and improving access to training. A rapid response service will expand to help those thrown out of work in all redundancies. There will also be £15m funding for free debt advice.

[Daggers]

The budget in short:

[James.]

Tell you what let's try to get out of a recession caused by excess borrowing by encouraging people to spend money they don't have and by the government increasing spending of money they don't have either!

Great idea Gordon. What a f**king farce.

[Munzie]

I question how much input Darling actually had to this.

More like Gordon Brown's budget to me. He should have stuck to what he was good at, his old job.

[Daggers]

What a f**king farce.

A fact recognised by the entire back benches.

Quite an abysmal budget...still at least there's still some spending on green issues so it's not all wasted money.

[sdb]

I question how much input Darling actually had to this.

More like Gordon Brown's budget to me. He should have stuck to what he was good at, his old job.

do you realise what a contradiciton that is!??!

basically the rich will get taxed more and that money will be re-invested more evenly across the country. it's left wing politics. it's what people who vote Labour should expect. something had to be done - and i'm not smart enough to know if it's good or a disaster waiting to happen. but i'm not gonna moan like everyone else (who also probably don't understand the whole thing!)

[sdb]

A fact recognised by the entire back benches.

Quite an abysmal budget...still at least there's still some spending on green issues so it's not all wasted money.

what measures would you have taken to rescue a sliding economy?

[Daggers]

what measures would you have taken to rescue a sliding economy?

Hmm, let me see:

• Putting a plug into the sink to stop anymore money vanishing in the form of working tax credit
  
• Stopping to bailout companies who are unable to produce marketable goods (like the 1billion which is about to be gifted to Jaguar)
  
• Not producing an insignificant short-term reduction in VAT at increasing NI which has the net effect of making the nation worse off
  
• Killing off the 'Selling home kit' which is just one more obstacle to the housing sector
  
• Increasing the level at which no stamp duty is payable on homes
  
• Maintaining the current approach to salary negotiations
  

...you want me to go on?

[Shrenchel]

I didn't think it was too bad.

George Osborne certainly doesn't have any better ideas.

[James.]

George Osborne certainly doesn't have any better ideas.

That's the problem. This is the Tories chance to shine but they're not taking advantage of it. Shame really.

[dandannieldanok]

George Osborne certainly doesn't have any better ideas.

And he doesn't have as good as eyebrows.

[act smiley]

To be honest, his eyebrows are merely a different type of evil. You can't tell me thsese are normal!

[sdb]

Hmm, let me see:

• Putting a plug into the sink to stop anymore money vanishing in the form of working tax credit
  
• Stopping to bailout companies who are unable to produce marketable goods (like the 1billion which is about to be gifted to Jaguar)
  
• Not producing an insignificant short-term reduction in VAT at increasing NI which has the net effect of making the nation worse off
  
• Killing off the 'Selling home kit' which is just one more obstacle to the housing sector
  
• Increasing the level at which no stamp duty is payable on homes
  
• Maintaining the current approach to salary negotiations
  

...you want me to go on?

brilliant. do you mean that literally because otherwise your not really offering a plan of action. you have to say how. and it seems to me that the budget will save alot of businesses which will in turn boost the economy no? as will cutting VAT (it doesn't seem a massive deal to me but if it helps spending then great). As for the National Insurance (& higher tax rates), it'll be the wealthier that pay this, not those desperately struggling (although the greed of some people would have you believe they can no longer afford to live now NI has gone up). It will mean a fairer distribution of wealth, which i'm all for. I'm fairly sure the principles of stamp duty are the same?

[Shrenchel]

The FTSE seemed to like it. Biggest one day rise in history.

[James.]

The FTSE seemed to like it. Biggest one day rise in history.

Nothing to do with the budget.

EDIT: bit harsh. Very little to do with the budget.

[Thracian]

Well, I'm totally unconvinced and my overall feeling is that we're being led by the blind in an almost certainly flawed direction by people who don't even seem convinced about their own solutions.

Darling doesn't even sound sure about his own growth forecasts which are the basis for his budget plans and taking the national debt up to 57% of GDP smacks of gross irresponsibility for short term political gain.

I remember how much money Gordon Brown threw away by ignoring all advice and selling half the nation's bullion at the beginning of the decade - and how many billions has that cost us given the huge rise in the price of gold as evidenced even this very day?.

So who would be convinced by Darling's growth forecasts and the notion that the recession will start receding in no time?. Nobody I know has expressed that view.

The reduction in VAT won't greatly fuel spending because people still won't have as much spare money as they had even a relatively short time ago and because any small improvement in people's budgetary situation after today will in many cases be used to reduce credit card and other debts. Especially as they know that more swinging tax increases are just around the corner.

It's rarely emphasised but many people's personal wealth and therefore their creditworthiness has dropped alarmingly this last year due to the sizeable reduction in house prices and the real value of their income in relation to what is paid out.

People will only sensibly lend against assets or predictable income and in no way would anyone suggests either of those factors will improve generally for people in the short term. Therefore no way do I expect people to go off on the sort of spending spree that might help reinvigorate the economy.

As for the cheap shot political ploy of super-taxing the rich what a load of shit that is. Already we have a country where an increasingly large number of people work for the state producing nothing and an increasingly high number of manufacturing businesses are going to the wall or, in Jaguar/Land Rover's case, pleading to be baled out..

And while on television you see a business studies teacher rightly saying how important it is to inspire people to be entrepreneurs you get this dogmatic Government reducing the incentives.

Entrepreneurs take huge risks in employing people, risks that many people simply don't have the mentality to cope with in many cases as is perfectly obvious from talking to them.

Hell some people are frightened silly to risk £50 buying themselves a gold ring never mind thousands of pounds setting up a business venture that may or may not work. Nor would they work for themelves because they wouldn't get the benefits of sick pay and statutory rights. If you don't earn when you're self employed you quickly go broke.

This country, and our economy, needs entrepreneurs to employ people and create wealth. Government "industry", sometimes vital though it is, creates nothing and makes nothing, apart from the fines and indirect taxes it extorts in ever more devious ways.

What is the point in teaching people skills in our places of learning or making them healthy in our hospitals if those people don't go on to make things or set up things which generate income and boost the economy?

You can't run an economy on non-productive cash guzzlers like teaching, the transport system or the health service if there are fewer things being done to generate income and therefore tax because there is no incentive to take the risks necessary nor the national wellbeing necessary to allow such ventures to be profitable...wellbeing that might well be facilitated by a maximum government tax threshhold of around 40% all in.

Lacking encouragement, entrepreneurs will either go abroad to make things or do things - as the people of Stoke or Worcester or Coventry will confirm to anyone who asks - or they won't bother. And if they don't bother then all those jobs are lost as has already been seen to be the case.

The above is just reaction to odd bits of the budget. I don't believe anything is built in for the realities. It's all based on ridiculous optimism that just isn't justified.

I very much doubt that the impact of terrorism will have been properly factored in and yet Al Queda's attack on the western economies is remorseless. Just the basic cost of maintaining our fighting forces was obscene even the last time I looked which was a while ago. We can't go on wasting those billions.

The Government did nothing of significance yesterday.

Many of the core problems were not in any way properly addressed nor was there any indication that the Government intends to tackle them.

Problems like the banking system and funding for investment, like kick-starting the housing market, like providing incentive for the creators of industry and like setting an example in managing the books of this country responsibly, an example that is governed by sound principles.

From what I can see all the Government has done is set us up for more and bigger problems in the years ahead.

I don't pretend to be an economist but I do run a business that is debt free and makes a profit.

And I'm bloody sure I won't be taking tips off the Government in how to improve that profitability.

[Ultra]

Some of the correspondents on here seem as negative as Gary Megson on Mogadon.

The government had two choices, either to stimulate the economy with tax cuts and increased spending on capital programmes, or to let whole swathes of the private sector go to the wall like Thatcher did in the 80s.

Had it taken the latter option, several banks would have been wiped out, and the savings of millions of investors with them. In addition, government finances would have been fcuked up by the addition of millions to the unemployment claimants' register.

I wish Brown had been brave enough to go for some of these policies from day one, rather than wait over 11 years to introduce them. But at last he's sussed out that it's the real-life Gordon Gekkos of this world (both here and in the US) who have brought about this mess, and one way or another, must be made to pay for it.

The only politicians who have a "problem" are those who jumped on the pro-deregulation bandwagon just before it crashed.

These may indeed be turbulent economic times. But the fourth-biggest economy in the world should be able to deal with them.

[Thracian]

Some of the correspondents on here seem as negative as Gary Megson on Mogadon.

The government had two choices, either to stimulate the economy with tax cuts and increased spending on capital programmes, or to let whole swathes of the private sector go to the wall like Thatcher did in the 80s.

Had it taken the latter option, several banks would have been wiped out, and the savings of millions of investors with them. In addition, government finances would have been fcuked up by the addition of millions to the unemployment claimants' register.

I wish Brown had been brave enough to go for some of these policies from day one, rather than wait over 11 years to introduce them. But at last he's sussed out that it's the real-life Gordon Gekkos of this world (both here and in the US) who have brought about this mess, and one way or another, must be made to pay for it.

The only politicians who have a "problem" are those who jumped on the pro-deregulation bandwagon just before it crashed.

These may indeed be turbulent economic times. But the fourth-biggest economy in the world should be able to deal with them.

Thatcher let businesses go to the wall that weren't independently sustainable, and why not? Baling them out would have been chucking good money after bad. Businesses fold all the time and re-emerge leaner and more economically viable or they become outmoded only to be replaced by something more appropriate.

Truth is Britain's industrial problems under Thatcher were inherited because Labour refused to tackle the power of their main pillar of support, the trades unions. The problems should have been dealt with long before Thatcher, just as with today's problems, but politicians never want to face up to reality if it means sacrificing political ideals however economically unsustainable those ideals might be.

What a pity politicians don't have to spend their own money instead of other people's. They'd be more prudent then.

As it is, the only thing they are really convincing bout is manouvering themselves towards ridiculous pay rises even in times of economic hardship - rises which will doubtless be awarded while they also encourage the Joe Soap's in their various jobs to settle for peanuts.

One thing's for sure it won't be reward for success any more than the banking executives.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics...ound15,000.html

Simple questions:

a) Do you really think the recession will end quickly?

b) Do you think Darling's growth figures will prove even close to correct?

c) Do you think his borrowing figures for the forseeable future will prove correct?

d) Do you think it responsible to saddle a country and it's future generations with debts of nearly 60% of GDP and possibly more just for political expediency?

e) Do you think what's been done will seriously kick-start the economy?

I'd doubt that even one box will deserve a tick.

[Fosse Boy]

Well, what do you expect when we let one of these fcukers become Chancellor of the Exchequer!

[James.]

But at last he's sussed out that it's the real-life Gordon Gekkos of this world (both here and in the US) who have brought about this mess, and one way or another, must be made to pay for it.

You let your left wing ideals cloud your judgement Ultra.

[Dr The Singh]

You let your left wing ideals cloud your judgement Ultra.

I fear for this nation, having 3 kids and possibly more, i see a bleak future!! This budget is making me do the oppposite, we have decided not to go on holiday next year and instead start saving and investing for a rainy future. This xmas, luxuries will be a minimum and the kids will get money into there bank accounts rather then toys, I have no confidence in the government!!!!

[Wycombe Fox]

Shafted! Absolutely ****ing shafted! AGAIN!!!

What a useless bunch of w*nkers.

Thanks to the cut in VAT, my business will be worse off.

I'm on the Flat Rate VAT Scheme for small businesses. This means that I currently charge VAT at 17½% on my sales and pay back 11% of my VAT inclusive turnover to HM Revenue and Customs.

What the b*stards have done is reduce the amount of VAT I charge by 2½% but only reduced the amount that I pay to HM Revenue and Customs by 1½%. So I'm 1% of my turnover worse off.

1% worse off on VAT coupled with ½% worse off on National Insurance! W*nkers!

The construction industry is dying on it's feet at the moment.

[Darkzzz_]

I fear for this nation, having 3 kids and possibly more, i see a bleak future!! This budget is making me do the oppposite, we have decided not to go on holiday next year and instead start saving and investing for a rainy future. This xmas, luxuries will be a minimum and the kids will get money into there bank accounts rather then toys, I have no confidence in the government!!!!

Having seen the way my sister is struggling (she has a 1 year old) I can really see your point here Singh, This is who I feel sorry for the most, the average family.

I think your taking the right steps as you are looking ahead, some people can't even get that far which is a shame.

This country is, to put it bluntly "fooked"

[Wycombe Fox]

Blah Blah Blah

And another thing...Christmas is cancelled!

[Alexikokopops]

And he doesn't have as good as eyebrows.

They literally terrify me.

Having seen the way my sister is struggling (she has a 1 year old) I can really see your point here Singh, This is who I feel sorry for the most, the average family.

I think your taking the right steps as you are looking ahead, some people can't even get that far which is a shame.

This country is, to put it bluntly "fooked"

I honestly read that as "Having seen the way my sister is struggling (she's a 1 year old)". I was a little confused.