How racist are you?

[Smudge]

Although 'semitic' does apply to Arabs and North Africans as well as Jews, the word 'anti-semite' does only apply to Jew hatred. Not sure why, one of the curiosities of the English language.

The term "anti-Semitic" (or "anti-Semite") usually refers to Jews only. It was coined in 1879 by German journalist Wilhelm Marr in a pamphlet called, "The Victory of Germandom over Jewry". Using ideas of race and nationalism, Marr argued that Jews had become the first major power in the West. He accused them of being liberals, a people without roots who had Judaized Germans beyond salvation. In 1879 Marr founded the "League for Anti-Semitism".

Source

[BoneDog]

Although 'semitic' does apply to Arabs and North Africans as well as Jews, the word 'anti-semite' does only apply to Jew hatred. Not sure why, one of the curiosities of the English language.

It's because anyone who criticizes the policies of the Israeli government (including Jews) gets labelled an anti-semite by zionists. I saw a documentary on it a few weeks ago and The Israel Lobby or AIPAC or one of those organisations actually got the definition of 'anti-semite' changed in one of the American dictionaries to 'someone who criticizes Israel'. The meaning has been officially changed a few times in the past 50 years to suit a few people who use this saying to slander anyone who points out their wrongdoings.

[Guest Bilo]

It's because anyone who criticizes the policies of the Israeli government (including Jews) gets labelled an anti-semite by zionists. I saw a documentary on it a few weeks ago and The Israel Lobby or AIPAC or one of those organisations actually got the definition of 'anti-semite' changed in one of the American dictionaries to 'someone who criticizes Israel'. The meaning has been officially changed a few times in the past 50 years to suit a few people who use this saying to slander anyone who points out their wrongdoings.

The meaning of the word anti-semitism that I posted actually predates the foundation of the state of Israel. Most people can see the difference between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism, even if the two have been known to intertwine.

[BoneDog]

The meaning of the word anti-semitism that I posted actually predates the foundation of the state of Israel. Most people can see the difference between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism, even if the two have been known to intertwine.

Yes, but now when someone is just criticizing Israels policies they get labelled anti-semitic when they aren't even being anti-zionist let alone anti-semetic. Alot of people who criticize Israels leaders don't even know what a zionist is

[Ultra]

The meaning of the word anti-semitism that I posted actually predates the foundation of the state of Israel. Most people can see the difference between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism, even if the two have been known to intertwine.

I'm not sure they can, especially in the US.

THe American Zionist lobby is very powerful, and extends well beyond the Jewish community.

[Thracian]

All my local Madrasah taught me was Koran & Hadith. It taught other children the basics Arabic, reading & writing. It taught us general history. It taught us how to socialize and respect people regardless of faith and colour. Bear in mind, I already went to a local English primary/secondary school, so I didn't need to be taught the national curriculum. Kids were encouraged to make their own decisions on anything in life.

Those who went to Islamic School were taught the national curriculum i.e. GCSE's and A-Level etc. along with Islamic studies, it's history, philosophy and biography of certain individuals. Looking back at it now, there was no form of brainwashing that I re-call. I am under no illusion that currently we do have some Madrasah's that encourage what you would call "brain washing" but there is something you need to understand:

- Madrassah means school. It's the Arabic word for school

- There are part time Madrassah's (I went to one) and there are full time ones. The full time ones have official names i.e. Al-Aqsa Primary School. The part time ones do not have any names, they are just called Madrassah of West Bromwich (example).

- Islamic School cannot get away with this "brain washing" that you claim. There are QCA's who do regular assessments on the curriculum, examination and qualifications. If any Islamic School were found to impose their views on the pupils or brain wash them, the school would have been taken to the cleaners.

Appreciate your reply Kareem. It is my fervent hope that the moderate and respectful Muslims have the courage and strength to stand up to the fanatics who would seek to aggle their minds and that the young people of Muslim descent have the wisdom to follow beliefs which compliment and enhance the world instead of stoking it full of yet more hatred and mistrust. It is a responsibility which will require great conviction and leadership.

[Dr The Singh]

a) Correct. I would just prefer it if our society didn't act as though certain things are normal (e.g teaching our young uns about sex in schools from age 5 as they are talking about doing). Another example is how it is ok for a woman to walk down the street in a bikini but as soon as they see a Muslim woman covered up they think it is outrageous.

b) I mentioned the punishments being done but they are not the way they are explained in the Koran. They are just done by corrupt regimes who really have nothing to do with Islam

The issue is people like Dr Zakir Nair, use the Koran and Hadiths and what Mohammed did, to perpetrate and give justification to many acts, infact he had 'proven' fact that gays should be stoned and apostates should be killed, is this the type of guy people should take seriously!! While westerners are always discredited by mulsims for a 'possible' misinterpretation, the likes of Nair are champoined!!

Arguements such as homo's, adultery, etc are written many times in the koran, hadith etc, so which perspective is true, do we abrogate, like some are do we take a best fit. Hence IMO, Islam may say they it's wrong\illegal to be gay etc which in a religious perspective is fine because punishment comes after death, but to use Koran, Hadiths as the basis for law has been shown in many Islamic nations not to work, they all vary and have there own interpretation. It has nothing to do with 'true' Islam\Muslims, but the documentation it's based upon, which is very 'open'. For me it's commen sense for a Muslim it maybe hard to take, but scholars of any note all agree on this fact!!!

I'm not sure they can, especially in the US.

THe American Zionist lobby is very powerful, and extends well beyond the Jewish community.

What about Sikh seperatist Ultra, where do they fit in???

[Dr The Singh]

CAN't BE ARSED!!

[Guest Bilo]

I'm not sure they can, especially in the US.

The American Zionist lobby is very powerful, and extends well beyond the Jewish community.

What about the Christian 'lobby'? After all, it is the evangelical Christian right who are largely to blame for two terms of Bush. There are many lobbies in the US but it seems that people are more interested in the Zionist lobby than any other.

The foreign policy of the US in the Middle East under Bush was driven by economic concerns over their oil and the Bush administration's neo-con mentality, rather than fulfilling any Zionist agenda. I'm confident that things will start to change under Obama, and that moves towards peace will accelerate after years of stagnation under Dubya.

[Ultra]

From Wiki

Christian Zionism is a belief among some Christians that the return of the Jews to the Holy Land, and the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, is in accordance with Biblical prophecy. It overlaps with, but is distinct from, the nineteenth century movement for the Restoration of the Jews to the Holy Land which had both religiously and politically motivated supporters.

Some Christian Zionists believe that the "ingathering" of Jews in Israel is a prerequisite for the Second Coming of Jesus. This belief is primarily, though not exclusively, associated with Christian Dispensationalism. The idea that Christians should actively support a Jewish return to the Land of Israel, along with the parallel idea that the Jews ought to be encouraged to become Christian, as a means fulfilling a Biblical prophecy has been common in Protestant circles since the Reformation.. The term Christian Zionism was popularized in the mid-twentieth century. Prior to that time the common term was Restorationism.

Many Christian Zionists believe that the people of Israel remain part of the chosen people of God, along with the ingrafted (based on Romans 11:17-24, Holy Bible) Gentile Christians. This has the added effect of turning Christian Zionists into supporters of Jewish Zionism.

[Daggers]

From Wiki

Politicians love using Wikipedia to support their arguments.

Makes you wonder why.

[Guest Bilo]

Politicians love using Wikipedia to support their arguments.

Makes you wonder why.

Just about the most unreliable source of info on the planet. When did books become unfashionable?

[Edmund]

Politicians love using Wikipedia to support their arguments.

Makes you wonder why.

[Guest Bilo]

That one I like!

[TrickyTrev]

Just about the most unreliable source of info on the planet. When did books become unfashionable?

It's actually by far and away the most reliable encyclopedia in the world.

[Ultra]

...as well as the most accessible.

Perhaps Daggers will tell us which bits of the article I quoted are not accurate..

[Guest Bilo]

Wikipedia is by its very nature accessible. Unfortunately that same nature hinders its reliablity. Perhaps I was exaggerating its lack of reliability but the fact is that anybody can amend any article on the site without Joe Public being able to trace it. It's OK as a starting point, but anything gained from the site should be treated with caution rather than treated as an absolute truth. Especially on contentious issues I might add.

EDIT: Jehst's cartoon is facetious, but sums up Wikipedia's limitations quite nicely.

[weluv]

i disagree that everyone is innately racist, but i do believe people will tend towards their own percieved group. Therefore, someone brought up in a diverse city will probably have no race issues, as they'll have been around people of other ethnicities from day 1. For someone brought up in a more rural, white area that won't be the case.

For me, how racist someone is is how much they allow any innate prejudice they may have to enter their actions.

[Edmund]

[Thracian]

You cannot believe how disturbing and shameful that image is to me. That says nothing to me about a young white guy having a stereotyped, negative image of a black man.

More than anything it tells me that every white guy needs to learn some serious self-defence from a young age and never let up.

Sinister? That is just an up-to-date image or illustration of how soft and inconsequential the social manipulators have left our young people feeling and have so gleefully portrayed us.

They wouldn't portray other races as cowards or as less worthy. And its time white people stopped putting up with having it done to them.

Anyway, would I cross the road? Why would I cross the road. I'd have no image of a black person other than as an individual coming towards me and no expectation of any more threat than I'd have from anyone else. Perhaps less in some cases.

If he were wielding a knife it would be different, whatever colour he was. I'd doubtless wish I had a knife of my own but you don't run from a wild animal so crossing the road in front of a knife-wielding nutter wouldn't help.

I'd not look him in the eye either (bad tactics with an animal so equally doubtful with a human) but would retain peripheral awareness of him on the way past and, if he moved to attack, I'd try to do something about it - probably by yelling out for Suffolk or Daggers who are much more suited to fighting than an old timer like me!

[Edmund]

You cannot believe how disturbing and shameful that image is to me. That says nothing to me about a young white guy having a stereotyped, negative image of a black man.

More than anything it tells me that every white guy needs to learn some serious self-defence from a young age and never let up.

Sinister? That is just an up-to-date image or illustration of how soft and inconsequential the social manipulators have left our young people feeling and have so gleefully portrayed us.

They wouldn't portray other races as cowards or as less worthy. And its time white people stopped putting up with having it done to them.

Anyway, would I cross the road? Why would I cross the road. I'd have no image of a black person other than as an individual coming towards me and no expectation of any more threat than I'd have from anyone else. Perhaps less in some cases.

If he were wielding a knife it would be different, whatever colour he was. I'd doubtless wish I had a knife of my own but you don't run from a wild animal so crossing the road in front of a knife-wielding nutter wouldn't help.

I'd not look him in the eye either (bad tactics with an animal so equally doubtful with a human) but would retain peripheral awareness of him on the way past and, if he moved to attack, I'd try to do something about it - probably by yelling out for Suffolk or Daggers who are much more suited to fighting than an old timer like me!

:crylaugh: :crylaugh: