How racist are you?

[BoneDog]

I know some arsonists, but none of em are Muslim. I know some intolerant people and none of em are Muslim. As for molestation of women, the US has the highest number of rapes and paedos anywhere in the world. Way higher than anywhere. And the UK is right at the top of that list too!

Let's not even get into slaughter, could be here all day

BNP, not a clue

Thats what I love about you empty.

You are a fountain of knowledge.

[Thracian]

Stop pussyfooting about it, and just say what you think Islamic Schools teach its pupils. Either way, you are wrong. I went to Madrasah twice a week after school when I was a kid. By your logic, I should be indirectly forcing or encouraging (or whatever you wanna call it) people to join the Islamic faith with a certain religious view point.

Muslim influence is growing. So you reckon Muslims will have the entire globe on lock down by 2050? <_<

How should I know what they teach? Why do you think I asked you, despite the fact that you've actually avoided the question.

a) You've not answered my question have you? Did your Madrasah encourage your following of and understanding of the Muslim faith and/or did it encourage you to understand some other faith and then to choose which to follow, if any?

You mention Islamic and Catholic schools as if I would be against the former and in favour of the latter. Why? I have said on many occasions that I broadly disapprove of schools and parents seeking to impose views on anyone. If they advise and set an example which the pupil or child chooses to follow I can understand and accept that, so long as the occurence is natural rather than a form of brainwashing.

But kids should be encouraged to make their own choices as experience gives them wisdom. Besides so many adult "examples" fall woefully short of being worthy anyway, as in teachers/parents/politicians committing adultery, lying, being corrupt etc.

b) I have no idea how quickly Muslim influence will spread. There seems every indication that the western world will continue to compromise and concede ground to Muslim idealism (for better or worse) and the fact of Muslims being allowed four wives ought to mean their population growth is swifter.

There seems every indication that the main western faith of Chistianity - so diluted over the years and so pitifully represented by far too many uninspiring, unworthy and misguided clergymen - is on the wain and it is hard to see faith in anything being a pillar of Western society in the short term - a fact which may be logically understandable to some but which is probably going to be fatally weakening too in some ways, particularly in terms of influence and authority.

That's not necessarily bad. Depends what, if anything, replaces it and whether something emerges that genuinely leads to a fairer, more gracious and more harmonious society.

It also depends on the Muslim community and whether their young people become more united as followers of Islam or whether they demand the freedom to think for themselves and as such evolve their religion towards something that encompasses the best of early doctrine while leaving the mind control and intollerance of free thought and even deed behind.

Because it seems to me that no religion is worth anything, except for reasons of individual and collective power or control, if its doctrine is followed on the basis of force and fear.

[Edmund]

BNP, not a clue

How can you say that. The BNP are caring and loving people, just look at this photo.

[Thracian]

As I said it's just a warning against adultery (which is not a good thing) and a warning about how society will end up if we allow fornication in the streets. I wouldn't want my kids down town on a Friday night seeing what I see.

No adulterer is going to get caught by four witnesses. And no-one should also get caught bumming in the streets. If they do, they aint right in the head anyway. So these rules are just warnings and in reality the punishments would never get used. Unfortunatley some regimes change the rules and stone people without obeying the laws written in the book. i.e when the Taliban buried some gays and pushed a wall on top of them. That has nothing to do with Islam

a) You won't shelter your kids from reality. Sooner or later they must be strong enough to form their own judgements and follow their own principals.

b) The punishments have been used and many times. If Islamic law is administered by men instead of God it is no use or value denying it.

[BoneDog]

At they end of the day, they are represents of that faith, whether you represent Sikhs, Christians, when you command all of that religions army's, it makes a statement of the majorirty of that faith!!

I would say that the only thing that represents the faith is the Book itself. Not some of it's supposed followers. We shouldn't judge the religion by the way people act. The Book is good if you ask me, but some of the followers act very badly and not in the way the book says they should.

I agree that the Bush thing was off, and it was more likely about money.

[BoneDog]

from what I remember there's 4 or 5 hadiths that are mainstream, not sure though!!

You might be right, I have only had a little flick through Bukhari cos it's frickin massive so haven't read many hadith really

[Thracian]

I know some arsonists, but none of em are Muslim. I know some intolerant people and none of em are Muslim. As for molestation of women, the US has the highest number of rapes and paedos anywhere in the world. Way higher than anywhere. And the UK is right at the top of that list too!

Let's not even get into slaughter, could be here all day

BNP, not a clue

I would doubt anyone has a clue about the highest percentage of rapes/paedophiles anywhere. In a climate of intimidation and fear I imagine it is relatively easy to get away with either.

[BoneDog]

b) I have no idea how quickly Muslim influence will spread. There seems every indication that the western world will continue to compromise and concede ground to Muslim idealism (for better or worse) and the fact of Muslims being allowed four wives ought to mean their population growth is swifter.

The four wives thing was mainly because of the greater number of women in the world. A great number of men have always been fighting in wars and there was a shortage of men in those times. Even today there are still more women than men in the world.

Not many Muslim men have more than 1 wive and even if they want to they have to have the permission of their first wife. And if they don't seek permission they are not acting according to the religion.

The man also has to treat each woman equal and give them each the same value in property, house etc.

[TrickyTrev]

I aint got no racist in me. I hear that same sayin all the time 'we all prejudice subconsiously'. That's wrong, people are racist cos it gets instilled in em as they growin up. No-one is born racist or prejudiced. It's introduced to kids as they grow up (not all, but some,).

I can remember when I was a young lad being a bit prejudiced towards arabs. When I used to watch the news I used to think the Palestinians were bad (all of em!). But that was just because the way things are put across on news and thing. It was also because most of my neighbours in the early 80's were NF and all that so I just grew up with them as peers. But when I learnt from reading as I grew I realised my mistakes on that.

When I was about 8-12 I had a babysitter who was NF and he used to draw NF tattoos on me arms. I didn't know what they meant but thought they were bangin! It's easy to be moulded into a certain way of thinking when you a kid.

Not sure it is all about upbringing, though that is certainly a large part of it. I am sure there is an evolutionary throwback to tribalism that is also part of the causal explanation for racism. But you're right, nothing that a little bit of clear headed rational thought and life experience doesn't sort out.

Am I racist? When faced with a lack of information about people do I have some instincts to make a judgement based on race? Sure. Do I ever act on those instincts? Never. Why? I know them to be irrational and unhelpful.

[BoneDog]

a) You won't shelter your kids from reality. Sooner or later they must be strong enough to form their own judgements and follow their own principals.

b) The punishments have been used and many times. If Islamic law is administered by men instead of God it is no use or value denying it.

a) Correct. I would just prefer it if our society didn't act as though certain things are normal (e.g teaching our young uns about sex in schools from age 5 as they are talking about doing). Another example is how it is ok for a woman to walk down the street in a bikini but as soon as they see a Muslim woman covered up they think it is outrageous.

b) I mentioned the punishments being done but they are not the way they are explained in the Koran. They are just done by corrupt regimes who really have nothing to do with Islam

[Koke]

How should I know what they teach? Why do you think I asked you, despite the fact that you've actually avoided the question.

a) You've not answered my question have you? Did your Madrasah encourage your following of and understanding of the Muslim faith and/or did it encourage you to understand some other faith and then to choose which to follow, if any?

You mention Islamic and Catholic schools as if I would be against the former and in favour of the latter. Why? I have said on many occasions that I broadly disapprove of schools and parents seeking to impose views on anyone. If they advise and set an example which the pupil or child chooses to follow I can understand and accept that, so long as the occurence is natural rather than a form of brainwashing.

But kids should be encouraged to make their own choices as experience gives them wisdom. Besides so many adult "examples" fall woefully short of being worthy anyway, as in teachers/parents/politicians committing adultery, lying, being corrupt etc.

All my local Madrasah taught me was Koran & Hadith. It taught other children the basics Arabic, reading & writing. It taught us general history. It taught us how to socialize and respect people regardless of faith and colour. Bear in mind, I already went to a local English primary/secondary school, so I didn't need to be taught the national curriculum. Kids were encouraged to make their own decisions on anything in life.

Those who went to Islamic School were taught the national curriculum i.e. GCSE's and A-Level etc. along with Islamic studies, it's history, philosophy and biography of certain individuals. Looking back at it now, there was no form of brainwashing that I re-call. I am under no illusion that currently we do have some Madrasah's that encourage what you would call "brain washing" but there is something you need to understand:

- Madrassah means school. It's the Arabic word for school

- There are part time Madrassah's (I went to one) and there are full time ones. The full time ones have official names i.e. Al-Aqsa Primary School. The part time ones do not have any names, they are just called Madrassah of West Bromwich (example).

- Islamic School cannot get away with this "brain washing" that you claim. There are QCA's who do regular assessments on the curriculum, examination and qualifications. If any Islamic School were found to impose their views on the pupils or brain wash them, the school would have been taken to the cleaners.

[Mickyblueeyes]

Just an opinion that I believe in and that I have been brought up to believe. If you were my dad/brother then I'd probably have the same surprised reaction that you have now.

England - Christianity, Secular. NOT Islam or any other religion. If immigrants want to live in the UK, then they should adopt the beliefs and behaviours of our culture.

Cos all British Expats do that dont they!!

I'd rather have money spent on schools/hospitals/roads.

You know a lot of Mosques in Britain are self funded right???

No although i fail to understand how they can believe in a God but thats up to them.

Christians have much better idealologies than Muslims though and that are much more realistic to our current society.

Do you even know what Christianity stands for???

Anti abortio are they??

Pro Homosexuality??

Pro Stem cell research??

You sunshine need to grow up!

from what I remember there's 4 or 5 hadiths that are mainstream, not sure though!!

I know what your referring to, when I worked in Qatar I had to learn a lot of Sharia/Islamic practices to understand the requests of my clients and came across a couple of these.

It basically says the muslim god does not punish one for "bad" thoughts rather bad actions. Its not only in regards to homosexuality which unfortunately most, if not all religions frown upon. Its in relation to all bad things, in the eyes of muslims. Basically, you cant be "punished" until you commit the sin.

I personally feel thats one of the few logical things I've read regarding all religions.

I would say that the only thing that represents the faith is the Book itself. Not some of it's supposed followers. We shouldn't judge the religion by the way people act. The Book is good if you ask me, but some of the followers act very badly and not in the way the book says they should.

I agree that the Bush thing was off, and it was more likely about money.

I agree, claiming that if you have "command" of an army which claims to be the religions is therefore a majority rule is quite ridiculous!But then again I dont agree with some of the book or the way its interpreted.

[Webbo]

You may be right Alex - all i have to go on is the daily mail

The Daily Mail has a reputation for blowing things out of proportion, and can gloss over things to sensationalise the story (I'm not saying it's the only one Webbo, but it does have a reputation for it).

Don't worry about it.

[Alexikokopops]

Don't worry about it.

[Koke]

You know a lot of Mosques in Britain are self funded right???

They are, and I forgot to tell him that as well. The money are generally raised by the local community. The Mosque in Evington cost £1.2m to build and at least 90% came from the locals.

Central Mosque in Birmingham were build with donations from trustees and the local community (both Muslims and non-Muslims donated) and enough money was raised to build and complete it.

[Daggers]

I'm not sure we are getting close to finding out how racist anyone is.

We need a racistometer.

[Koke]

I'm not sure we are getting close to finding out how racist anyone is.

We need a racistometer.

PFA Racist of the Year award?

I'd like to nominate myself. I have to be the best in something. So far I'm a failure in life.

[AoWW]

I gotta say though that the Koran only says to stone gays if you see them bummin in the street ! (which is highly unlikely) It says what people do in their own home behind closed doors is between them and God.

It also says an adulterer can only be stoned if they get caught in the act by FOUR witnesses. (which is highly unlikely). It's more of a warning against

Swinging = bad. Let this be a warning to y'all.

[Daggers]

Kareem must be careless - he's always stoned.

[Guest]

That's just sick. And fook off - you are accusing me of being a anti-semitist because i objected to the building of mosques in the UK?

Post of the year contender!

[Guest Bilo]

In the same way that Al Qaeda recruits believe in and have been brought up to believe in a certain opinion.

You're really not all that dissimilar from them you know.

Oh, and England is a Christian country? Get over yourself. I'm sure you're down there on the front row for mass every Sunday morning aren't you?

Just what I was going to say. Most of those who go on about England being a Christian country are unlikely to attend church for anything other than a christening, wedding or funeral. As an atheist, I'd be reluctant even then.

[Guest Bilo]

That's just sick. And fook off - you are accusing me of being a anti-semitist because i objected to the building of mosques in the UK?

Sig material!

[Guest Bilo]

I wouldn't trust the dictionary definition

I think the true/old definition is hating or being against anyone from the region around the Dead Sea (or maybe the whole Middle-East). Now I think it says it's just hating Jews but that is not the case. I think a semite is anyone from that whole area around Israel/Palestine.

Although 'semitic' does apply to Arabs and North Africans as well as Jews, the word 'anti-semite' does only apply to Jew hatred. Not sure why, one of the curiosities of the English language.

[MC Prussian]

Absolutely.

[NewquayFox]

I`m not racist you big white honky. ;0/