Leese

[Daggers]

Wiki, for what it's worth.

[Sparky]

quim

a slang term for vagina, may possibly derive from the Welsh word "cwm" meaning "valley."

[Zingari]

It was just something I heard on a TV programme, I'm not claiming it's gospel. You're probably right about Corgi, don't know about the rest.

probably true , there's a lot of leaky old boilers in wales

[Thracian]

And they was born here!

They was!

[act smiley]

Yes but I think his point (quite rightly, to be fair) is that these people do still know English.

Even in the midst of Y Fro Gymraeg you're going to really struggle to find someone that doesn't know English.

& S4C is a public channel, it's not Sky only. You'd have it if you lived in Wales and as far as I know it's on FreeView / FreeSat too?

S4C

Never did I think I would miss a TV channel that comprised pretty much entirely of shows about farming, rugby, Team Guess-which-hand-its-in (really) and dubbed football highlights from either European leagues or a shed in Bangor, in a language I only understand the slightest amount of, quite so much.

Also, I'm properly envious of speaking loads of languages - the irritating thing is having picked up the odd word here and there, but having a vocabulary of about 10 words and no knowledge of proper grammar to speak of. Really wish my German was up to scratch and Welsh and Swedish are two languages that I know the odd phrase but nowhere near enough for a converstion, which is annoying. Wish I was properly fluent in something, at least.

[Thracian]

But those people are only disadvantaging themselves, Thracian.

If you honestly believe that the English language is under threat then I am officially washing my hands of all future arguments with you and calling the men in white coats to come and have you sectioned.

You'd have to be an utter, UTTER loon to believe that.

The Costa Brava, The Costa Del Sol and just about every other "Costa" in Spain is choc-a-block with English expats who can't utter a word in Spanish, you're not on a crusade to save Spanish, are you? No. Because not only is it healthy in it's own nation but it's spoken by three hundred to four hundred MILLION people world-wide as a first language and countless others as a secondary.

Similarly English has some estimated four to five hundred odd million speakers and an estimate of anything up to two BILLION speakers world wide.

Did I say the language was under threat? Not at all. Although even that may happen in the long term.

But what I do say is that I don't want to see English under threat in this country.

Either because a situation arises where more people speak a single language other than English as their preferred choice (something that is perfectly possible in the medium term) or because we wait too long to do anything about that happening as will be the case as more schools are entirely or significantly made up of people who do not have English as their first language.

For instance there is considerable evidence that some immigrants don't wish to learn English despite living here and it is reflected in the following from The Lone Voice website:

Monday, 30 July 2007

English now a 2nd language in the UK. Sarah Teather MP sells out.

==========================================

"The people of Brent East must be really proud of their MP, who is learning Gujarati.

Liberal democrat MP, Sarah Teather is using the parliamentary recess to brush up her language skills.

Sarah, who has already had basic lessons in Gujarati, is taking an intensive two week course in Hindi at the School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS). Spoken Hindi is understood by people from both India and Pakistan

She proudly announces this in the Asian Image magazine, that she is learning the language as a way of communicating with her constituents who it would appear see no reason to learn English and the MP thinks that in order to protect her index linked pension and get in next time she needs to pander to ethnic voting block etc..."

============

As for the rate at which English is declining as the first language of its residents the evidence is already clear and seems likely to accelerate as statistics show:

Figures from the Institute for Public Policy Research (New Immigrant Communities Study) reveal that there are

are now 4.3 million people living in the UK (and consuming public services and products) who were not born here.

That is an up from approximately 2.3m in 1971, is up a significant 38% since 1991, when the figure was just over 3m. And the projected figure for 2011 is 6m - or 10% of the population!

Given that rate of population change I would say there is considerable chance that the English language could be significantly threatened in this country within 30-50 years if current population trends continue.

Particularly if the politics also changes significantly (again quite possible and already well underway in some areas) and our new leaders decide that the languages of Pakistan or India (such as Urdu, Hindi, Punjabi etc) should be most emphasised.

Unfortunately I very much doubt if I'll be in a position to come back on here when my point is proved! .

[Daggers]

<fear>

Tell me Tony - what language do you speak when you are at your apartment in Saudi or wherever it is?

I'm guessing you are fluent in Arabic now as you've had over a year to learn in in order to accommodate the locals when you stay there.

[Daggers]

[Finnegan]

[lcfc_jme]

I wish to learn Italian, Portuguese and the Gaelic that half of my family speak. Y'know, just to add to the English and some form of French and Spanish that I can already muster.

[Daggers]

I love languages.

I love learning more words - I adore having kids teach me words from their languages.

Being able to converse with people of different cultures in such a liberator.

[lcfc_jme]

It's just fun to talk to somebody abroad, watch them ask you a question in English and see their face as you answer (or in my case try to) in their own language.

They give 'nuff respect for it. Infectious smile as well, they seem shocked and almost proud to hear it. Helps with service in the diner as well, as I found out brilliantly..

[Thracian]

If you are trying to link a decline in English standards (not born out by any research) to the increase in immigration then (again) you're going to have to get on the phone to the men with white coats.

The teaching of English now occupies a greater part of the curriculum than it has done in the last forty years.

I've taught classes with many students in who have had absolutely no understanding of English at the start - but usually within 12 months they are fluent. Not only that, the manner in which they apply themselves to learning the new language spills across to other subjects and they act as role models for the rest of their peers.

Not only do you not have a leg to stand on with this line of argument you don't have anything to ****ing stand on either.

What you say about immigrant students I don't doubt for one minute but you've not actually answered my question, as I'm quite sure you know.

Mind you, given the prominence of English on the curriculum as you describe I would really have expected standards to rise dramatically and would have imagined you would be only too happy to proclaim it and, in so doing, ridicule my own impression that standards have fallen.

However, key in the words "Standards of English Declining" or "Decline in English Literacy" and it's hard to believe I'm mistaken. Key in "Rise in Standards of English" and you get the impression that every claim has been exaggerated and fails to stand up to examination.

Howver this from the MailOnline seems to have enough meat:

=====

"England has plummeted down a world league table of reading standards at primary school despite Labour's billions poured into education.

Our schools tumbled from third place five years ago to 19th, beaten by the U.S. and many European nations, including Germany, Italy and Bulgaria. Only Morocco and Romania suffered a sharper decline in standards since the last global reading study in 2001.

Scotland also slipped down the rankings, falling from 14th to 26th.

In an alarming verdict on standards in England, the study report said the performance of ten-year- olds had deteriorated "significantly", particularly among the brightest children.

The results paint a dramatically different picture to the ever-rising scores in our official national tests.

The shock slide deals an embarrassing blow to ministers who have claimed that extra cash has led to continual improvement.

More than £50billion a year is now spent on nurseries and schools -against £27billion when Labour came to power.

The Progress in International Reading Literacy Study spanned 40 countries and five Canadian provinces.

It found that children in England, Wales and Northern Ireland were less likely to read for pleasure outside school than youngsters almost everywhere else.

But they had the highest number of computers.

The study, overseen by the International Association for the Evaluation of Educational Achievement, also implicated the school system in England's declining performance, even though more than £600million has been spent on primary school literacy schemes alone since 1998.

It revealed a tripling in the number of pupils who are never set reading homework and a decline in the time spent teaching reading.

The PIRLS project involved giving reading tests to tens of thousands of ten-year-olds."

[Finnegan]

It's just fun to talk to somebody abroad, watch them ask you a question in English and see their face as you answer (or in my case try to) in their own language.

They give 'nuff respect for it. Infectious smile as well, they seem shocked and almost proud to hear it. Helps with service in the diner as well, as I found out brilliantly..

This, shamefully, is the solitary reason I want to learn BSL. It isn't to help people at all, it's to feel good about myself when I get to communicate with somebody deaf that's struggling. I got it numerous times over Christmas working in the shop and imagined how much easier it'd be for them if I could actually communicate properly.

I'm honest enough to admit this is for my own good, not theirs. Heh.

[Daggers]

<something that bears no relation to the original post>

Global comparison figures? Literacy rates? What the frig do they have to do with your initial post?

Honestly Tony, it's lost on me and I'm not going to protract this with you anymore. You seek to reduce aspects of education to single issues and as soon as it is blown away you try to grab hold of another single issue to support a spurious argument.

Believe what you want - my view is that anything you've said on this issue so far is cock and I can't be bothered with it.

Everything in life is about the round and not the single.

How's that Arabic coming along if we're talking about unanswered questions?

[Daggers]

It's just fun to talk to somebody abroad, watch them ask you a question in English and see their face as you answer (or in my case try to) in their own language.

They give 'nuff respect for it. Infectious smile as well, they seem shocked and almost proud to hear it. Helps with service in the diner as well, as I found out brilliantly..

Go South America and converse, they'll adore you. Seriously - the continent was built for someone like you buddyboy.

[Thracian]

Tell me Tony - what language do you speak when you are at your apartment in Saudi or wherever it is?

I'm guessing you are fluent in Arabic now as you've had over a year to learn in in order to accommodate the locals when you stay there.

I was never intending to live there anyway and, as it has taken the firm that passes for builders in Dubai so long to even get the shell of my apartment ready I decided, only last month, to abandon the project bearing in mind I would likely be 65 before the building is completed.

A part of that decision also revolved around whether I could ever be truly comfortable spending time there and I decided I wouldn't, even though English is the language of the business world out there.

Fortunately my oldest son's project in Grenada has progressed much more satisfactorily and, as English is the official language of Grenada and French a widely spoken alternative, I'm quite looking forward to completion and to spending some time there.

However, when I was a squash coach in Geneva, I managed to conduct my classes in now long-forgotten French and am quite sure that, had I chosen to live there I would have been fairly fluent by the time all the documentation was done and dusted.

[Daggers]

Fortunately my oldest son's project in Grenada has progressed much more satisfactorily ... I'm quite looking forward to completion and to spending some time there.

Nice babu.

Rich dem baldhead Béké drebble.

Buh wait nah - don't they talk a language indigenous to the island which you aren't learning before you go there to oppress them with your "English"?

**** me, what does this mean to the educational system of the island? To the people who lived there before you landed on the shore?

Still - who cares huh? Us imperialists can dictate as we please.

‘Chou poule!’

[Finnegan]

Us imperialists can dictate as we please.

AHEM.

[Koke]

I'm not as intellectual as you fine gentlemen, but I fail to understand Thracian's points? Is it not a positive thing to be bi-lingual?

I will use myself as an example - and last time I checked myself & most of my mates spoke reasonably good English, and we were all born to immigrants. English will never ever be under threat.

[Finnegan]

I'm not as intellectual as you fine gentlemen, but I fail to understand Thracian's points? Is it not a positive thing to be bi-lingual?

I will use myself as an example - and last time I checked myself & most of my mates spoke reasonably good English, and we were all born to immigrants. English will never ever be under threat.

[Koke]

Eddie Izzard is the sexiest and funniest transvestite.

[Finnegan]

OI!

You've never even SEEN me in my dress!

[Daggers]

I'm not as intellectual as you fine gentlemen

Fuck off.

You are the bloke who posted the work of genius that was...

Facebook has annoyed the **** out of me lately. I've had some old school slags adding me. Fine I thought at first, I accepted, but then the first PM I get is "hi u, remember louise from skool, u luk different!” Have I missed something? Am I supposed to have a civil dialogue with a 26 year old woman who writes like a ****? Mind you, she was born in Coventry so that explains a lot - And **** me, but of course I look different. I'm not 15 any more. I’ve moved on, I’ve matured, I’ve lost my virginity to an Arab girl on holiday in Somalia and I’ve smoked so much weed that Snoop Dogg would be proud of me. I’ve lived, I've loved, unlike some people who still expect a 25 year old bloke to look like he did when he was a 15 year old chronic serial masturbator and slut-chaser.

Now **** off Louise, I never liked you in school. You were big mouthed arrogant bitch who would shit one anyone just to fit in with the rest of your high maintenance inner circle. You were a bully who caused some vulnerable pupils into a breakdown. You were an ugly HIV infested slag in Year 10, and you are still an ugly infested slag now. You are deleted.

I've had two other friend request from old school "mates" but I kindly rejected them both.

[Finnegan]

Utterly unrelated, but I almost forgot there's a new South Park today.