Finnegan Posted 16 April 2009 Posted 16 April 2009 Thought so. I've got one or the other (I'm never quite sure, don't watch a lot of TV) and I watch Y Clwb Rybi on there when I can.
Katy Posted 16 April 2009 Posted 16 April 2009 Yes but I think his point (quite rightly, to be fair) is that these people do still know English.Even in the midst of Y Fro Gymraeg you're going to really struggle to find someone that doesn't know English. & S4C is a public channel, it's not Sky only. You'd have it if you lived in Wales and as far as I know it's on FreeView / FreeSat too? True, but they stay true to their mother tongue and fair play to them. They only speak English to English speaking people, they wouldn't speak it otherwise it bloody kills them to haha. I think you can only get S4C on freeview if you live in Wales. I joked with my mum too much about only being able to get 3 and a half channels where she lives (meaning S4C is only half a channel) and she promptly went and got Sky to shut me up - which it did because i'm stuck with freeview. Meh.
Thracian Posted 16 April 2009 Posted 16 April 2009 what's the point of learning welsh ? the only people who speak it are welsh people and they all speak english It's quite subtle really. While Welsh people on here speak up strongly about human rights and multi-culturalism, Wales, the country, generally requires those who work in the public services to speak Welsh, a policy which has filtered through to other prospective employers. The reason for that, of course, is to maintain the culture of Wales. But I've never heard them - nor indeed English people - being so encouraging of the same attitude being taken in this country. Pity really, for the sake of our culture. RECENT ADVERT: =========== My client, a market research specialist with over 30 years experience, are looking for up to 8 Welsh Speaking Telephone Interviewers to join them on a temporary basis starting after Easter for approximately 2 weeks. The role will involve afternoon and evening shifts and can offer Saturday hours also if desired. Hours are variable dependent on business needs but will roughly be 35 hours per week although part time shifts can also be available. AND on IC North Wales: --------------------------- Speaking Welsh at work must be a right Jan 20 2006 By Tom Bodden, Daily Post WELSH speakers would be handed new language "rights" under radical proposals announced yesterday. The Welsh Language Board called for an independent regulator with statutory powers to police those rights within public sector services. They said staff in public bodies should have the right to use Welsh in their workplace "essential for the long term health and viability of the language". The board said the existing 1993 Welsh Language Act would need to be overhauled to bring it up to date. The announcement by the language quango board, due to be scrapped and merged with the Assembly government in 2007, set it on a collision course with the Labour administration last night. AND, FROM THE BBC ============== Sunday, 30 January, 2000, 16:50 GMT Welsh society enters language job row Carmarthenshire Council Carmarthenshire Council has sparked a debate over Welsh speakers The Welsh Language Society, Cymdeithas Yr Iaith Gymraeg, is urging members of a council to declare a vote of no confidence in their leader and chief executive over the appointment of a non-Welsh speaking director. The controversy started after Carmarthenshire Council decided not to interview six Welsh-speaking applicants shortlisted for the director of education post. Instead the council has offered the post on a short-term basis to a highly experienced candidate from outside Wales. Michael Stoten, the former Director of Education for Kensington and Chelsea has confirmed to BBC Wales that he has been offered the job of interim education director for Carmarthen. The council has said that if new Welsh speaking candidates are made known to the leader then consideration will be given. But the appointment has outraged teaching unions and the Welsh Language Society. And a pressure group is planning to protest when councillors meet to discuss the matter on Monday. Ffred Ffransis, education spokesman for Cymdeithas said: "We have potentially two different sets of rights. "The individual rights of people who apply for posts. But also, what I deem as community rights, the rights of Welsh speakers to be able to live in a Welsh speaking community and to be dealt with through the medium of Welsh. "If we want to see the Welsh language survive as a living language it must be part of the life of administration and we must have Welsh speaking institutions as well. "Cymdeithas is not into jobs for Welsh speaking people. Unless there is a proper objective reason for the use of Welsh language in the post then it shouldn't be a job stipulation. "In Carmarthenshire and other areas we should be moving towards a situation in which we don't have a local council which is completely English in its medium of administration because people employed there will say 'I'm not going to bother learning Welsh'. "It would be essentially an English language institution but wearing bilingual face for its connection with public. "That's a very superficial form of bilingualism and not one which means Welsh would survive as a living language." --------------- Just out of interest you do have to wonder how many Muslims, newly arrived from Pakistan or Somalia, and how many immigrants from, say, Bulgaria or Poland chance to speak Welsh? Or perhaps, just as important, how many English!
Finnegan Posted 16 April 2009 Posted 16 April 2009 Sigh. There goes the thread. Wales is a country in it's own right, Tony. If you don't want to speak English you don't move to England, I think everyone on this forum would agree with that whatever their politics. Why not in Wales? The Welsh have spent centuries being on the end of blunt English xenophobia, some more subtle, some far more obvious. The ample English laws banning, restricting and covering up the teaching and speaking of the Welsh language throughout this time (for no reason other than basic prejudice, ignorance and fear) are a product of that but still haven't managed to stamp out the Welsh want to maintain and speak their own tongue. So what's it to you if they do? You wouldn't have a problem if these articles were about French, Spanish, German or whatever else - why should it be any different that it's Welsh?
Thracian Posted 16 April 2009 Posted 16 April 2009 Sigh. There goes the thread.Wales is a country in it's own right, Tony. If you don't want to speak English you don't move to England, I think everyone on this forum would agree with that whatever their politics. The Welsh have spent centuries being on the end of blunt English xenophobia, some more subtle, some far more obvious. The ample English laws banning, restricting and covering up the teaching and speaking of the Welsh language throughout this time (for no reason other than basic prejudice, ignorance and fear) are a product of that but still haven't managed to stamp out the Welsh want to maintain and speak their own tongue. So what's it to you if they do? You wouldn't have a problem if these articles were about French, Spanish, German or whatever else - why should it be any different that it's Welsh? Have I criticised the Welsh? Without reservation I'd support anything that preserves the Welsh language and most any other Welsh tradition you can name. Like French it always seems a wondrous language to me. But it is bad enough listening to what passes as English from the English nowadays, much less to the incoherent mumbles of the many foreigners who have been given jobs in this country having little or no knowledge of English whatsoever. Or those godforsaken telephone canvassers. And if you pretend this isn't the case then you are kidding yourself. Some have done brilliantly there is no doubt, and how delightful they are to come across, but many more don't even attempt to learn the language as is perfectly obvious every single day that I work on my market stall. There are just a few of us left who care about the language and culture of England just as much as you do about Wales. And who expect to hear English spoken properly in our work places too.
Guest Posted 16 April 2009 Posted 16 April 2009 There are just a few of us left who care about the language and culture of England just as much as you do about Wales. And who wouldn't settle for the bastardisation of our language in any work place. Isn't English already a bastardisation? Many words are taken from those who successfully invaded these islands during its history. As for proper English, if you're going to be pedantic, the true indigenous "English" were forced into Wales and the West Country, so if you want to use that argument, we should be speaking Cornish or Welsh.
Edmund Posted 16 April 2009 Posted 16 April 2009 Isn't English already a bastardisation? Many words are taken from those who successfully invaded these islands during its history.As for proper English, if you're going to be pedantic, the true indigenous "English" were forced into Wales and the West Country, so if you want to use that argument, we should be speaking Cornish or Welsh. I think we should bring back "ye olde english". None of this text talk, like "innit" and "dat".
Guest Posted 16 April 2009 Posted 16 April 2009 I think we should bring back "ye olde english". None of this text talk, like "innit" and "dat". Randome "e's" at the ende of wordes is the future. I like youre thinkinge.
Thracian Posted 16 April 2009 Posted 16 April 2009 Isn't English already a bastardisation? Many words are taken from those who successfully invaded these islands during its history.As for proper English, if you're going to be pedantic, the true indigenous "English" were forced into Wales and the West Country, so if you want to use that argument, we should be speaking Cornish or Welsh. I actually re-wrote that line as you posted but no matter. All languages are arrived at through evolution and historical influence. But how conveniently you and your friends ignore the notion that the Welsh language should be preserved and protected while seemingly dismissing the same requirement for England. I am also aware of the history of the "true" Britons, my great friend Frederick Covins having written a best seller which refers in some measure to the history of the British tribes. The language of England has been what we know as English for a long time now so, yes, you are being pedantic, because the tongue has every right to be respected and utilised properly in England just as Welsh is in Wales, the Welsh having been an integral part of this island for centuries, just like the Scots. And, as far as I've ever noticed the Welsh and Scots all speak English properly when employed in England albeit with heavy accents that are difficult for the English to decipher on occasions. For all the above you still seem to have conveniently evaded the point that I make. Do you actually think then that it is fine for Wales to reserve it's workplaces for Welsh speakers but that it is wrong for England to reserve its workplaces for those who speak English.
Guest Posted 16 April 2009 Posted 16 April 2009 I actually re-wrote that line as you posted but no matter.All languages are arrived at through evolution and historical influence. But how conveniently you and your friends ignore the notion that the Welsh language should be preserved and protected while seemingly dismissing the same requirement for England. I am also aware of the history of the "true" Britons, my great friend Frederick Covins having written a best seller which refers in some measure to the history of the British tribes. The language of England has been what we know as English for a long time now so, yes, you are being pedantic, because the tongue has every right to be respected and utilised properly in England just as Welsh is in Wales, the Welsh having been an integral part of this island for centuries, just like the Scots. And, as far as I've ever noticed the Welsh and Scots all speak English properly when employed in England albeit with heavy accents that are difficult for the English to decipher on occasions. For all the above you still seem to have conveniently evaded the point that I make. Do you actually think then that it is fine for Wales to reserve it's workplaces for Welsh speakers but that it is wrong for England to reserve its workplaces for those who speak English. I haven't evaded any point. I have answered one that you then edited later.
Finnegan Posted 16 April 2009 Posted 16 April 2009 I've never worked anywhere where English wasn't spoken fluently and well, at that. I've worked with Bulgarians, Nigerians, Somalians, French, Swedes, Russians, Koreans, Japanese, the list goes on. More-over I've never gone anywhere as a customer where I felt I wasn't understood. Even in the heart of London's J-District I could shop and eat and be fluently understood. Most ever trouble I've had was with Scouse call-center workers! Haha. English is the most globally spoken language, how can you possibly have the audacity to complain about any demise it may potentially have and compare it to a language that was fucking OUTLAWED by a xenophobic neighbour and expect me to sympathise with you? Yes, there's a strong want in Wales to cling to their language - a reaction to it being under threat. The English language isn't under threat, it's the least threatened language on the fricking planet - why would you expect anyone to be up in arms about it's preservation? The Welsh Language Act (a response to Welsh being UNDER THREAT) calls for most official information in Wales to be available in both languages so of course lots of public sectore jobs require Welsh on the CV.
Daggers Posted 16 April 2009 Author Posted 16 April 2009 Sigh. There goes the thread. You know it was always going to happen.
James. Posted 16 April 2009 Posted 16 April 2009 But how conveniently you and your friends ignore the notion that the Welsh language should be preserved and protected while seemingly dismissing the same requirement for England. Quick. Close the borders. The English language is an endangered species! Bleeeeeding hell. This is poor even by your standards Thracian.
Edmund Posted 16 April 2009 Posted 16 April 2009 http://swindonnf.blogspot.com/2009/04/one-...in-primary.html
Thracian Posted 16 April 2009 Posted 16 April 2009 a) I've never worked anywhere where English wasn't spoken fluently and well, at that. I've worked with Bulgarians, Nigerians, Somalians, French, Swedes, Russians, Koreans, Japanese, the list goes on.b) The Welsh Language Act (a response to Welsh being UNDER THREAT) calls for most official information in Wales to be available in both languages so of course lots of public sectore jobs require Welsh on the CV. a) I don't know whether that means that everyone spoke English well or that English was spoken well by at least some of those you worked with. If the former then your workplace was either particularly fortunate/demanding or you've taken selective viewpoint? Because just one day on any market would show you that people are living here and working here who simply have no idea how to speak the language nor do they offer any indication that they are learning or even that they want to learn. And for further evidence I am canvassed almost daily by people I cannot understand when I get home from work both on the phone and, occasionally, on the doorstep. b) Exactly as I said was the case. Whatever the reasoning. And if the ability to speak English was a condition of entry for immigrants to England - as many would like - then we could act in exactly the same way for the good of our language.
Corky Posted 16 April 2009 Posted 16 April 2009 Because just one day on any market would show you that people are living here and working here who simply have no idea how to speak the language nor do they offer any indication that they are learning or even that they want to learn. And they was born here!
Finnegan Posted 16 April 2009 Posted 16 April 2009 But those people are only disadvantaging themselves, Thracian. If you honestly believe that the English language is under threat then I am officially washing my hands of all future arguments with you and calling the men in white coats to come and have you sectioned. You'd have to be an utter, UTTER loon to believe that. The Costa Brava, The Costa Del Sol and just about every other "Costa" in Spain is choc-a-block with English expats who can't utter a word in Spanish, you're not on a crusade to save Spanish, are you? No. Because not only is it healthy in it's own nation but it's spoken by three hundred to four hundred MILLION people world-wide as a first language and countless others as a secondary. Similarly English has some estimated four to five hundred odd million speakers and an estimate of anything up to two BILLION speakers world wide.
Thracian Posted 16 April 2009 Posted 16 April 2009 http://swindonnf.blogspot.com/2009/04/one-...in-primary.html James was saying? It's funny how people ignore what they don't want to see. Haven't the Welsh reacted for just the reason that their language was under threat because Welsh had increasingly become the second language just as is becoming the case in England? It's like people on here mocking my claim that there would soon be sharia courts in Britain. "Thracian's just being alarmist. It'll never happen...." came the replies. Well it has already happened, there are sharia courts in many parts of the UK including one in Leicestershire. And there are already many schools in this country where English is the second language when there never used to be. But it's not something that's readily admitted - especially by the inner circle of this forum.
Daggers Posted 16 April 2009 Author Posted 16 April 2009 http://swindonnf.blogspot.com/2009/04/one-...in-primary.html Its not fair on the teachers or the children who are being held back by their classmates language problems. What a bunch of cunts. How the **** a non-English speaker holds a teacher or classmates back is beyond me. The BNP have to be among the thickest morons on the planet.
Finnegan Posted 16 April 2009 Posted 16 April 2009 What language exactly is forcing English into being the second language? You're nuts. I bet you couldn't actually tell me what the second most spoken language is in England without checking (though you'll probably check and then lie about it, but there you go) or the ratio to which it's spoken next to English. Like I've said countless times, the Welsh language was under threat because of countless attempts to outlaw it. People still want to speak it so it's made frequent come backs and is now protected by law. English doesn't need to be protected by law, it's pretty much THE international language.
Alexikokopops Posted 16 April 2009 Posted 16 April 2009 Is Thracian actually suggesting the English language is under threat? Glory be!
Daggers Posted 16 April 2009 Author Posted 16 April 2009 And there are already many schools in this country where English is the second language when there never used to be.But it's not something that's readily admitted - especially by the inner circle of this forum. Who gives a shit what the first language of a child is? The curriculum is in English and is delivered in English and the children learn to speak...your favourite language...English.
Thracian Posted 16 April 2009 Posted 16 April 2009 But those people are only disadvantaging themselves, Thracian.If you honestly believe that the English language is under threat then I am officially washing my hands of all future arguments with you and calling the men in white coats to come and have you sectioned. You'd have to be an utter, UTTER loon to believe that. The Costa Brava, The Costa Del Sol and just about every other "Costa" in Spain is choc-a-block with English expats who can't utter a word in Spanish, you're not on a crusade to save Spanish, are you? No. Because not only is it healthy in it's own nation but it's spoken by three hundred to four hundred MILLION people world-wide as a first language and countless others as a secondary. Similarly English has some estimated four to five hundred odd million speakers and an estimate of anything up to two BILLION speakers world wide. Look to yourself before you start talking to me about white coats. Cancer begins with unnoticed change and a blizzard starts with the first snowflake.
Finnegan Posted 16 April 2009 Posted 16 April 2009 Look to yourself before you start talking to me about white coats. YOU ARE IMPLYING THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE IS UNDER THREAT. YOU ARE MENTAL.
Thracian Posted 16 April 2009 Posted 16 April 2009 Who gives a shit what the first language of a child is?The curriculum is in English and is delivered in English and the children learn to speak...your favourite language...English. So, as a teacher, you don't think the standard of written and spoken English has fallen?
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