Fox92 Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 I'm very interested in aeroplanes, how they function, because I find them so fascinating. I've had the pleasure of visiting the Cockpit of a Boeing 757 during a flight. This, of course, was before September 11th attacks on America, doesn't happen during flight nowadays. It was interesting, the Pilot even told us that all they manually do it take off and land, unless they have to intervine... However, auto pilot has been around a long time, in fact, I think they were even used on Douglas DC-10 aircrafts. This incident is just one out of thousands, but it does bring it to the attention of the industry. Air France have issued a statement about training, and I wonder why the pilot's were not even trained for these type of incidents. It sounds like he panicked, which I understand (the pressure is massive no doubt), and if the training hasn't been given then something like this was probably going to happen. Air France are a respected airline, I think this is their biggest accident. They will respond well, but it also alerts every airline/pilot in the World.
Rincewind Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 Probably different for a simulation in traing than the real thing. They would need to go over incidents several times so the reaction is natual but I doubt that they do. It'll be a lot of theory apitude tests and training with an instructor. I may be wrong though.
ADK Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 They have made recovery of a high altitude stall mandatory in training after this incident. You are right though. Covering every possible scenario in training is simply not possible and the human mind does not easily react logically in a high stress event. That is why planes are always likely to crash due to pilot error although the chances of it happening are very small.
Jackirius Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 I'm very interested in aeroplanes, how they function, because I find them so fascinating. I've had the pleasure of visiting the Cockpit of a Boeing 757 during a flight. This, of course, was before September 11th attacks on America, doesn't happen during flight nowadays. It was interesting, the Pilot even told us that all they manually do it take off and land, unless they have to intervine... I remember going up to the cockpit and sitting in the pilots seat with my hands of the controls whilst airborne when i was younger before 9/11 Can't imagine that happening now.
Fox92 Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 I remember going up to the cockpit and sitting in the pilots seat with my hands of the controls whilst airborne when i was younger before 9/11 Can't imagine that happening now. No, sadly terrorists has prevented people from visiting the cockpit during a flight. Shame, I really enjoyed it. Think you might be able to view the cockpit when the aircraft is grounded though...
Rincewind Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 The pilot I remember going up to the cockpit and sitting in the pilots seat with my hands of the controls whilst airborne when i was younger before 9/11 Can't imagine that happening now. The pilot wasn't like the one in Airplane was he?
AdamN Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 Nowadays pilots are advised to use the computer systems as much as possible meaning that they don't have to handle faults very often leading to them getting next to no practice. This is absolutely not true. During training pilots will go over emergency procedures again and again, and no pilot will pass their training unless they are able to handle everything that's thrown at them. Yes, computers are a major part of aircraft systems nowadays, but that doesn't mean they're a substitute for a pilot. They're meant to ease the work load of pilots - not replace them. Also, aircraft accidents as serious as this one are almost always the result of a succession of errors, be it mechanical, electronic or human. There are a million and one different things that can go wrong, so it's impossible to provide comprehensive training that covers every eventuality. It's often down to the pilot to apply what they have learnt in order to overcome any problems, and 99.999% of the time, they do.
Libertine Dream Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 I don't agree with people who say technology should be removed. Technology actually makes the planes alot safer becasue the biggest cause of accidents is always the pilots. That said, the design of the controls hindered the pilots in doing their jobs so i think that should be looked at. A pilot is trained and paid to control the pain, it is no less safe, much like a surgeon doesn't allow a computer to perform surgery but instead help him. A pilot's instinct has now been taken over by the expectation that a computer will sort it out. It therefore makes it no safer, technology aiding a pilot in times of trouble is far better than a pilot panicking when technology doesn't sort out it's own problem. I'm very interested in aeroplanes, how they function, because I find them so fascinating. I've had the pleasure of visiting the Cockpit of a Boeing 757 during a flight. This, of course, was before September 11th attacks on America, doesn't happen during flight nowadays. It was interesting, the Pilot even told us that all they manually do it take off and land, unless they have to intervine... However, auto pilot has been around a long time, in fact, I think they were even used on Douglas DC-10 aircrafts. This incident is just one out of thousands, but it does bring it to the attention of the industry. Air France have issued a statement about training, and I wonder why the pilot's were not even trained for these type of incidents. It sounds like he panicked, which I understand (the pressure is massive no doubt), and if the training hasn't been given then something like this was probably going to happen. Air France are a respected airline, I think this is their biggest accident. They will respond well, but it also alerts every airline/pilot in the World. It is rather sad that terrorists have ruined it for everybody. I know of one person who's been in the cockpit since 9/11 and that was a fleeting glance because they were scared of flying. Autopilot has been around since the early 1900s, DC3's were the first well known aircraft to include it and Shorts Belfast were also among the first but I think the DC10's were the first to have it on such a large scale
Libertine Dream Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 This is absolutely not true. During training pilots will go over emergency procedures again and again, and no pilot will pass their training unless they are able to handle everything that's thrown at them. Yes, computers are a major part of aircraft systems nowadays, but that doesn't mean they're a substitute for a pilot. They're meant to ease the work load of pilots - not replace them. Also, aircraft accidents as serious as this one are almost always the result of a succession of errors, be it mechanical, electronic or human. There are a million and one different things that can go wrong, so it's impossible to provide comprehensive training that covers every eventuality. It's often down to the pilot to apply what they have learnt in order to overcome any problems, and 99.999% of the time, they do. You didn't understand my point. Of course pilots are trained to be able to handle everything and won't unless they're 100 percent on everything but nowadays they are advised to use the systems installed in the aircraft and not encouraged to manually fly. My mate's Dad has been a pilot for 25 years and has seen the change in aviation and he is told to use auto systems whenever possible.
AdamN Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 You didn't understand my point. Of course pilots are trained to be able to handle everything and won't unless they're 100 percent on everything but nowadays they are advised to use the systems installed in the aircraft and not encouraged to manually fly. My mate's Dad has been a pilot for 25 years and has seen the change in aviation and he is told to use auto systems whenever possible. I suppose that's in an attempt to eliminate pilot error for the most part. Unfortunately, sometimes the systems can go tits up too. It's unavoidable really. Although in the case of this crash, they're saying that one of the factors were frozen pitot tubes. If the computer is getting false air speed readings because of this then there's not really much it can do.
Libertine Dream Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 I suppose that's in an attempt to eliminate pilot error for the most part. Unfortunately, sometimes the systems can go tits up too. It's unavoidable really. Although in the case of this crash, they're saying that one of the factors were frozen pitot tubes. If the computer is getting false air speed readings because of this then there's not really much it can do. Pitot tubes have frozen in the past, it rarely causes a crash. The computer wasn't directly the problem, it disengaged as it should have done but the pilots were too over-reliant on it, which caused the problem. They were distracted by the computer and instead of simply correcting their angle and thrust setting, they waited for the computer to work again. I've read in some articles that the pilots in control at the time weren't trained to realise it was a pitot tube problem, had the captain been there at the start of the problems they'd have got out of the situation and as he walked in to a panic, he also panicked.
ADK Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 A pilot is trained and paid to control the pain, it is no less safe, much like a surgeon doesn't allow a computer to perform surgery but instead help him. A pilot's instinct has now been taken over by the expectation that a computer will sort it out. It therefore makes it no safer, technology aiding a pilot in times of trouble is far better than a pilot panicking when technology doesn't sort out it's own problem. The biggest cause of airplane crashes is pilot error, therefore taking away direct control of the plane where possible is safer.
Libertine Dream Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 The biggest cause of airplane crashes is pilot error, therefore taking away direct control of the plane where possible is safer. That is indeed the statistic but if you also look at statistics, pilot error was at its lowest in the 70s and 80s when pilots were simply aided by computers/ computers were being introduced and planes had the same high standards they do now. Since pilots have become more reliant on computers, pilot error statistics are around the same as they were pre computers.
Kyle_Le_Don Posted 9 July 2012 Posted 9 July 2012 If we were meant to drive god would give us cars, Shit better give that up. If god really did create everything then its been put there for a reason. Makes me wonder what the next BIG thing will be... Hmmm. Transportation?
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