Air France plane goes missing

[James.]

I wonder who was on this one? I bet there's more VIP's like the executives from the South American steel companies and the two leading gun runners who were on the other Air France jet a few weeks ago. Plus many more. In fact it is unreal the amount of high fliers with connections to the White House who were on the last one. Got the list if anyone wants it to check.

Dodgy as piss

You smoke too much weed.

[JoeyB]

Can I have a list of good airlines please, seen as you seem to be the expert?

I can see your point to a certain extent but I think this quote sums it up - They put us aboard wrecks, they put us aboard coffins. That's where they put us. It's slaughter. It's slaughter," one relative in Paris told French TV

This is truly shocking - Following the crash, the EU Transport Commissioner Antonio Tajani said he would propose setting up a worldwide blacklist of airlines deemed to be unsafe. The EU already has its own list.

How can an airline be allowed to fly helpless citizens if it is deemed unsafe?

Keep away from Onurair (sp) the Turkish airline, i could tell you a few stories about them.

[BoneDog]

You smoke too much weed.

Yeah cos our leaders aren't a bunch of gangsters who lie to us all day every day! You know they don't give a shit about you but still you take the piss out of folk who say they are doing wrong.

I'm not havin a go, just sayin that you shouldn't trust em

[BoneDog]

Was the list printed in the Koran, if not I'm not interested.

Go on then post your conspiracy Fox Mulder El Empty.

No it's not in the Koran!

The list is the official list of names, here's a few :

1 Eirch Heine - President of Admistration Council of ThyssenKrupp (this company was Bush's Grandfathers 1st company I think)

2 Luis Roberto Anastacio - President Michelin South America (this company had big beef with Washington at the time)

3 Antonio Guerios - IT Director Michelin (same)

4 Marcelo Parente - Chief of Staff of Rio de Janeiro Mayor.

5 Pedro Luiz de Orleans e Braganca - Prince - Descendant of Don Pedro II Brazilian Emperor 1822-1831

6 Rino Zandonai - Director of the Trentini Nel Mondo Onlus Association - Italy

7 Giambattista Lenzi - Regional Conselor of Trentino Alto Adige - Italy

8 Gianni Zortea - Mayor, Canal San Bovo - Italy

9 James Reidner. He was a Pentagon employee whose office was one of the ones obliterated when a section of the Pentagon was destroyed on Sept 11, 2001. (let's not forget that the part of the Pentagon that was hit was the ONLY part that was having major re-construction at the time. Only a few were in that part and he was one of the few survivors.

10 Richard Essen, a biotech researcher who'd been scheduled to meet with investors in Tower A (on 911). He'd canceled the meeting at the last moment due to what he claimed was a violent stomach bug. His career had encompassed several aspects of DNA research, including the use of retroviruses to modify the DNA of living organisms.

11 Owen Mason was an artist who had a studio on the 80th floor of Tower B....Owen Mason was a mixed media artist working on a series of "unity" sculptures that were to be displayed, ironically, at a UN conference on religious tolerance. His sponsor was none other than the Saudi Royal Family.

12 Pablo Dreyfus, was said to be a major player in an effort by Brazilian authorities to stop flow of arms to drug gangs in Rio. He was a consultant for Small Arms Survey, a Geneva-based thinktank.

13 Another consultant for Small Arms Survey also died in the crash, “Ronald Dreyer, a Swiss diplomat and co-ordinator of the Geneva Declaration on Armed Violence who had worked with UN missions in El Salvador, Mozambique, Azerbaijan, Kosovo and Angola,” according to Scotland’s Sunday Herald.

“Both men were consultants at the Small Arms Survey, an independent think tank based at Geneva’s Graduate Institute of International Studies,” the Herald reported. “The Survey said on its website that Dryer had helped mobilise the support of more than 100 countries to the cause of disarmament and development.”

Dreyfus and Dreyer were reportedly traveling to Switzerland to “present the latest edition of the Small Arms Survey handbook, of which Dreyfus was a joint editor.”

Dreyfus advocated for “stringent labeling” of ammunition produced by weapons companies, the paper said. He averred that such labeling would greatly aid the tracking of arms acquired by criminals.

Dreyfus focused in particular on Brazilian arms firm Companhia Brasileira de Cartuchos which bought Germany’s Metallwerk Elisenhutte Nassau in 2007 and another company in the Czech Republic. He said CBC should “consider the risk that some of these exports end up, via diversions, feeding violence in Brazil.”

“When Rio agents smashed a cell of drug traffickers who had sourced their weapons from the tri-border area, Dreyfus noted its leaders were prominent businessmen living in apartments in the plush Rio suburbs of Ipanema and São Corrado,” the Herald noted.

There are more but I know it's pointless

[James.]

Yeah cos our leaders aren't a bunch of gangsters who lie to us all day every day! You know they don't give a shit about you but still you take the piss out of folk who say they are doing wrong.

I'm not havin a go, just sayin that you shouldn't trust em

I was only messing around. I atually find a lot of your stuff interesting. Some of it may be rubbish but it at least makes me look at things from a different perspective.

However as far as the Air France plane goes I think you could probably choose any flight leaving Brazil on any given day and find a lot of people with links (strong and weak) to Washington, just like you have here.

[BoneDog]

I was only messing around. I atually find a lot of your stuff interesting. Some of it may be rubbish but it at least makes me look at things from a different perspective.

However as far as the Air France plane goes I think you could probably choose any flight leaving Brazil on any given day and find a lot of people with links (strong and weak) to Washington, just like you have here.

I'm not sure about that. There are loads of flights out all day every day and most are just full of tourists. On this flight we had Royalty and CEO's of companys that were involved in massive battles. Check it out. Did you know that about 15-20 planes had flown through the exact same path in the same hour, on the same route, and none of them had any problems whatsoever?

It is also impossible for planes to be hurt by lightning for the last 20 or more years (there are many videos of planes being hit by lightning online, also check engineers reports about this). There are also 5 different power sources on all jets that are impossible to knock out together. And if in the almost impossible chance that the plane did get into trouble cos of weather, the pilots would have lots of time to send mayday. Pilots are trained to send mayday at a moments notice, but on this occasion, nothing. (the only explanation for no mayday is a bomb, but this is impossible because of the weird contact with air tower)

Then there is the fact that all planes have satellite tracking that tells us exactly where they are at the point of going down or breaking up. But the authorities said they knew nothing about location. This is a very important point because this technology is not basic. There are thousands of satellites (also radar on shore) up there and there is ALWAYS one in close range of any plane in the skies (even though they don't need to be close to record the data). These satellites can track any mobile phone on the planet and say where the last contact was made, and a plane gives out much more powerful signals than a mobile. These are not my words, they are words of airplane engineers and technicians who have spoken out about this event.

I'm tellin y'all, someone in high places took someone or some crew out on this tragic day, and they didn't care who else they took out at the same time. That's how they roll

[Dr The Singh]

France 'banned' Yemeni Plane!!!

France 'banned Yemen crash plane'

Yemeni authorities said the plane conformed to international standards

A Yemeni airline which crashed into the Indian Ocean was banned from France in 2007 because of "irregularities", France's transport minister has said.

Dominique Bussereau told parliament of ongoing concerns about the safety record of the Yemenia Airbus 310.

More than 150 people were on board. A five-year-old child survived and was rescued from the ocean, while some bodies have also been recovered.

The plane flew from Yemen, but many on board began their journey in France.

Most on board had flown on a different Yemenia aircraft from Paris or Marseille before boarding flight IY626 in Sanaa, the capital of Yemen.

In Paris, Mr Bussereau told legislators that the Yemenia Airbus 310 which crashed was not permitted to fly into France.

See a map of the plane's route

"A few years ago, we banned this plane from national territory because we believed it presented a certain number of irregularities in its technical equipment," Mr Bussereau told parliament.

However, a spokesman for the airline said poor weather was more likely to have been a factor in the crash than the condition of the plane.

Yemeni Transport Minister Khaled Ibrahim al-Wazeer also told Reuters that the plane had undergone a thorough inspection and conformed to international standards.

RECENT AIR CRASHES

1 June: An Air France Airbus plane travelling from Rio de Janeiro to Paris disappears in the Atlantic with 228 people on board

20 May: An Indonesian army C-130 Hercules transport plane crashes into a village on eastern Java, killing at least 97 people

12 February: A plane crashes into a house in Buffalo, New York, killing all 49 people on board and one person on the ground

Timeline of air disasters

In pictures: Yemeni plane crash

Timeline of Flight IY626

EU wants world aviation blacklist

The crash prompted the European Union to highlight its own concerns about Yemenia's safety record, proposing a world blacklist of those carriers deemed unsafe.

The EU already has its own list, and its transport commissioner, Antonio Tajani, said such a list would be a "safety guarantee for all".

Another EU official told Reuters news agency there were concerns about the airline's "incomplete reporting procedure and incomplete follow-up" following 2007 tests on the aircraft that crashed, but that its record was improving.

Reports say the plane was due in the Comoros capital Moroni at about 0230 (2230GMT on Monday). Most of the passengers had travelled to Sanaa from Paris or Marseille on a different aircraft.

The flight on to Moroni, on the island of Njazidja (Grande Comore), was also thought to have made a stop in Djibouti.

There were more than 150 people on board, including three babies and 11 crew.

An airport source told AFP news agency that 66 of the passengers were French, although many are thought to have dual French-Comoran citizenship.

[Jon the Hat]

Can I have a list of good airlines please, seen as you seem to be the expert?

I can see your point to a certain extent but I think this quote sums it up - They put us aboard wrecks, they put us aboard coffins. That's where they put us. It's slaughter. It's slaughter," one relative in Paris told French TV

This is truly shocking - Following the crash, the EU Transport Commissioner Antonio Tajani said he would propose setting up a worldwide blacklist of airlines deemed to be unsafe. The EU already has its own list.

How can an airline be allowed to fly helpless citizens if it is deemed unsafe?

On the contrary, I could not pick a good pilot from a bad one, which is why I rely on the major airline to do it for me. You can get on plane flown by someone who earns less than a bus driver if you choose, but personally I am inclined to prefer those who convinced a major airline they were good enough to deserve the better pay & conditions on offer. Airlines such as BA, Virgin, AA, Singapore Airlines, Emirates etc who use the newest planes, maintain them well and pay their pilots a decent salary get my money every time.

Citizens are not helpless they have choice.

[Jon the Hat]

Then there is the fact that all planes have satellite tracking that tells us exactly where they are at the point of going down or breaking up. But the authorities said they knew nothing about location. This is a very important point because this technology is not basic. There are thousands of satellites (also radar on shore) up there and there is ALWAYS one in close range of any plane in the skies (even though they don't need to be close to record the data). These satellites can track any mobile phone on the planet and say where the last contact was made, and a plane gives out much more powerful signals than a mobile. These are not my words, they are words of airplane engineers and technicians who have spoken out about this event.

Even in the middle of an electrical storm? My mobile is cack in Sainsbury's.

[Maybes]

On the contrary, I could not pick a good pilot from a bad one, which is why I rely on the major airline to do it for me. You can get on plane flown by someone who earns less than a bus driver if you choose, but personally I am inclined to prefer those who convinced a major airline they were good enough to deserve the better pay & conditions on offer. Airlines such as BA, Virgin, AA, Singapore Airlines, Emirates etc who use the newest planes, maintain them well and pay their pilots a decent salary get my money every time.

Citizens are not helpless they have choice.

[lavrentis]

On the contrary, I could not pick a good pilot from a bad one, which is why I rely on the major airline to do it for me. You can get on plane flown by someone who earns less than a bus driver if you choose, but personally I am inclined to prefer those who convinced a major airline they were good enough to deserve the better pay & conditions on offer. Airlines such as BA, Virgin, AA, Singapore Airlines, Emirates etc who use the newest planes, maintain them well and pay their pilots a decent salary get my money every time.

Citizens are not helpless they have choice.

I'm sorry but I don't agree with any of this.

You cant just let any old Tom Dick and Harry fly a plane full of 150 passengers. The airport staff, such as the engineers, thoroughly check the planes before they takeoff, no matter what airline they are so planes from all companies are maintained to a certain standard, if they are not - they don't fly.

The newest planes are more likely to fail because engineers have worked on them less and they have been around less for possible problems to be fixed. Anyway, with any sort of plane new or old, problems are very rare in the first place.

Pilots getting paid less than bus drivers? - Give me a pilots job in easyjet anyday and my life is sorted. Not bad pay really? In fact most of the pilots in these companies are ex RAF pilots.

Companies like easyjet, TCX and other low cost airlines simply offer value for money (and for the fact that most of their flights are to closer destinations to the UK and less luxurious). You are in a no way worse kept aeroplane than you would be with Virgin just because Virgin are more expensive.

Sorry if I sound like an obnoxious git.

[Bert]

I'm sorry but I don't agree with any of this.

You cant just let any old Tom Dick and Harry fly a plane full of 150 passengers. The airport staff, such as the engineers, thoroughly check the planes before they takeoff, no matter what airline they are so planes from all companies are maintained to a certain standard, if they are not - they don't fly.

The newest planes are more likely to fail because engineers have worked on them less and they have been around less for possible problems to be fixed. Anyway, with any sort of plane new or old, problems are very rare in the first place.

Pilots getting paid less than bus drivers? - Give me a pilots job in easyjet anyday and my life is sorted. Not bad pay really? In fact most of the pilots in these companies are ex RAF pilots.

Companies like easyjet, TCX and other low cost airlines simply offer value for money (and for the fact that most of their flights are to closer destinations to the UK and less luxurious). You are in a no way worse kept aeroplane than you would be with Virgin just because Virgin are more expensive.

Sorry if I sound like an obnoxious git.

Well said Bassinas. Companies aren't going to appoint any old pilot, regardless of how small they are compared to the bigger ones. Imagine if they did appoint "any old pilot" and something went tits up. The company would go out of business.

Like you said, the smaller companies offer low budget flights to shorter destinations, whereas the bigger ones provide long distance journeys and a bit better in flight entertainment, refreshments etc.

[Smudge]

Well said Bassinas. Companies aren't going to appoint any old pilot, regardless of how small they are compared to the bigger ones. Imagine if they did appoint "any old pilot" and something went tits up. The company would go out of business.

Like you said, the smaller companies offer low budget flights to shorter destinations, whereas the bigger ones provide long distance journeys and a bit better in flight entertainment, refreshments etc.

Not in this case Bert, neither of the pilots on Continental's flight 3407 were competant to fly in icy conditions.

One source

In a Washington D.C. hearing investigators analyzed many mistakes and a lot of incompetence that led to the crash that killed 50 people on a routine commuter flight.Pilot Captain Mark Renslow at the end made the fatal error of trying to pull the nose up when the plane started to stall instead of going with what the plane itself was trying to do which was increase speed. His action caused the fatal nosedive. The 47-year-old Renslow had failed many tests with respect to his ability to fly and it turned out to be a fatal fact.

To make matters worse, Renslow and 24-year-old first officer Rebecca Lynn Shaw were talking about non-essential matters a full three minutes before the crash.

Renslow recounted stories to Shaw including her necessity to get experience with ice and engines.

Flying professionals commented that there should never be any personal discussions below 10,000. They broke the rules and they paid the ultimate price however, the problem is they made about 47 other people pay with their lives as well.

A terrible fact was that a warning light came on while they were having their personal conversation and they both apparently missed it or chose to ignore it.

At one point Renslow seemed to make Shaw nervous by telling her he had gotten the job at Continental with only 625 flight hours but then reassured her by reminding her that 250 hours were accomplished on multi-engine aircraft.

It seems when reviewing all information that it likely was mostly Renslow's fault. He did not follow rules in fact he slept in the "crew-ready room" the night before the flight thereby saving the cost of a hotel room. That is an offense punishable by termination.

[Fox You Forest]

The airport staff, such as the engineers, thoroughly check the planes before they takeoff, no matter what airline they are so planes from all companies are maintained to a certain standard, if they are not - they don't fly.

I must have seen every episode of Air Crash Investigation (geek) and there are numerous cases of mistakes being made by such people...

[Bert]

Not in this case Bert, neither of the pilots on Continental's flight 3407 were competant to fly in icy conditions.

One source

That's sad really, and the company should really be questioned on why he was allowed to fly.

[lavrentis]

I must have seen every episode of Air Crash Investigation (geek) and there are numerous cases of mistakes being made by such people...

True, but plane crashes are still a rare occurrence.

[BoneDog]

Even in the middle of an electrical storm? My mobile is cack in Sainsbury's.

True, but the tracking technology on a plane is a thousand times more hi-tech than our phones

[Jon the Hat]

I'm sorry but I don't agree with any of this.

You cant just let any old Tom Dick and Harry fly a plane full of 150 passengers. The airport staff, such as the engineers, thoroughly check the planes before they takeoff, no matter what airline they are so planes from all companies are maintained to a certain standard, if they are not - they don't fly.

The newest planes are more likely to fail because engineers have worked on them less and they have been around less for possible problems to be fixed. Anyway, with any sort of plane new or old, problems are very rare in the first place.

Pilots getting paid less than bus drivers? - Give me a pilots job in easyjet anyday and my life is sorted. Not bad pay really? In fact most of the pilots in these companies are ex RAF pilots.

Companies like easyjet, TCX and other low cost airlines simply offer value for money (and for the fact that most of their flights are to closer destinations to the UK and less luxurious). You are in a no way worse kept aeroplane than you would be with Virgin just because Virgin are more expensive.

Sorry if I sound like an obnoxious git.

Easyjet and Ryanair are both good airlines with modern planes, good support and well trained pilots - I don't believe I mentioned budget airlines. In fact out of the EU you would be hard pressed to find an airline which doesn't. Sadly this is not the case outside of the Eu and North America - as yesterday proves with a plane banned from France at the centre of the story.

I also watched a few aircrash investiagtions, and while a sequence of errors is generally the cause, often poor maintenance and badly trained pilots are a factor.

[lavrentis]

Easyjet and Ryanair are both good airlines with modern planes, good support and well trained pilots - I don't believe I mentioned budget airlines. In fact out of the EU you would be hard pressed to find an airline which doesn't. Sadly this is not the case outside of the Eu and North America - as yesterday proves with a plane banned from France at the centre of the story.

I also watched a few aircrash investiagtions, and while a sequence of errors is generally the cause, often poor maintenance and badly trained pilots are a factor.

Very True, but with time these errors are less than what they were

[BoneDog]

There were no pilot errors! Or maintence errors

[Craig]

Errrr... Not sure this has been posted yet, but there's a survivor

11:31pm UK, Wednesday July 01, 2009

A girl who is the sole survivor of a crashed Yemeni passenger jet is on her way home to Paris, officials have said.

Bahia Bakari in hospital

Bahia Bakari in hospital following her ordeal

Bahia Bakari clung to wreckage in the Indian Ocean for more than 10 hours before she was rescued earlier this week.

She had been on a Yemenia Airbus 310 jet, which is thought to have killed the remaining 152 people on board, including her mother, when it ditched in the sea on Monday night.

Bahia, thought to be between 12 and 14 years old, then spent the day recovering in hospital in the near-by capital of Comoros, Moroni.

Her father has revealed that his daughter was not wearing a life jacket during her ordeal and could not swim.

When rescuers found her in the dark in a sea of bodies, clinging to a piece of debris and surrounded by a fuel slick, she was too weak to react.

"We tried to throw a lifebuoy but she could not grab it so I had to jump in the water to get her," a police rescuer told France's Europe 1 radio.

She suffered a fractured collarbone and burns to her knee, but no life-threatening injuries.

Yemenia airlines, which has come under attack from victims' families angry over its safety record, said it will make an initial payment of £17,165 (20,000 euro) to the families of each victim.

Chairman Abdul Khaleq al-Qadi said the payments would be "a first instalment", without saying when they would begin.

The announcement came amid mounting anger over the condition of the 19-year-old Yemenia jet.

It had been banned from France's airspace due to doubts over its safety. Airbus stopped manufacturing the long-haul A310 in 2007.

Link

How terrifying must that have been!? Absolute miracle though.

[Jon the Hat]

There were no pilot errors! Or maintence errors

Bold statement. The pilots in the Air France jet could have flown around the storm, and Air France could have replaced the know to be faulty Pitot tubes (as all airlines have done since). In the second crash the pilots were flying a known to be dangerous plane into a poorly equipped airport and it looks likely they hit the water with a wingtip after deciding they were going to miss the runway and attempting to turn around and try again.

[StanSP]

http://news.uk.msn.com/world/article.aspx?...entid=148303242

It plunged vertically into the sea apparently.

[DB11]

http://news.uk.msn.com/world/article.aspx?...entid=148303242

It plunged vertically into the sea apparently.

Ouch.

But on the other hand, it says that the life jackets were not inflated suggesting that they did not know they would crash so would death have been permanent? Also, if death was instant, they would still have shit themselves I guess with the rapid deceleration and seeing the sea outside

[StanSP]

Ouch.

But on the other hand, it says that the life jackets were not inflated suggesting that they did not know they would crash so would death have been permanent? Also, if death was instant, they would still have shit themselves I guess with the rapid deceleration and seeing the sea outside

If that is the case, it kinda shows the increasing speed it went down if they couldn't be inflated.

So scary to think about. But million times worse being in that actual situation. Unimaginable really.