Ultra Posted 23 July 2009 Posted 23 July 2009 Absolutely. Their decline began as soon as Sir Bobby was sacked (allegedly at the request of a certain megalomaniac centre-forward..)
Radovan's Caravan Posted 23 July 2009 Posted 23 July 2009 Absolutely. Their decline began as soon as Sir Bobby was sacked (allegedly at the request of a certain megalomaniac centre-forward..) Careful Ultra, you've written something interesting there. As for your assertion that it was your players that bottled the penalties in Italia '90 - maybe. But one was more culpable than the others. Indeed, in all tourno's subsequently where you have gone out on penalties one players has always been more culpable than the others. YOUR FCUKING USELESS GOALKEEPERS And none of your dull, brain dead, pissing uselsss coaches, pundits, hacks, commentators et al has ever said that...
Ultra Posted 23 July 2009 Posted 23 July 2009 Most English keepers have indeed been undistinguished in penalty shootouts. But Joe Hart looks like he could be an exception to that rule. By the way, the manager of the England side on Sunday is none other than......................................................................Alan Shearer...
Radovan's Caravan Posted 24 July 2009 Posted 24 July 2009 Most English keepers have indeed been undistinguished in penalty shootouts.But Joe Hart looks like he could be an exception to that rule. By the way, the manager of the England side on Sunday is none other than......................................................................Alan Shearer... ??? You know something is stirring in the darkest recesses of my mind. Some altercation way back between Robson and Shearer. A Champions League game in the back of beyond and Uncle Bobby took little Al along for the ride. Except little Al wanted to play and, as you lot say, threw his toys out of the pram when Bobby said 'bedtime'. There was a lot of talk about 'passion' and 'playing for the shirt' afterwards. But no talk at all of the 15,000 Euro's that can be earned for simply walking on to the pitch in the 93rd minute
BoneDog Posted 24 July 2009 Posted 24 July 2009 Bobby Robson is my favourite England manager I can remember. It seemed to go downhill after him for the most part. Players from that era seemed to have more passion when playing for their country from what I remember. That could be cos they were more grounded in reality and not all swanning around town as multi millionaires and thinking they a step above the 'public', I don't know. I'm not lumping them all into that category cos there are still one or two, but I'd say most revel in their celebrity, and that changes their whole attitude for the worse. After Robson we had some real jokes in charge in my opinion. Taylor and Hoddle used to wind me up so much and I was less interested in international football from then on. It's all about club for me now, not got the same passion for internationals anymore.
Finnegan Posted 24 July 2009 Posted 24 July 2009 And for at least the third time of asking I am half English (on my mother's side)... Are you one of these self-loathing English types, born and raised here, that started to clutch to any foreign nationality they had because they became disillusioned with life in a Western power and/or wanted to claim to be something else for kudos? If so you sort of picked a rather wanky nation to cling on to. Could only be worse if you'd opted for Wales.
davieG Posted 24 July 2009 Posted 24 July 2009 Are you one of these self-loathing English types, born and raised here, that started to clutch to any foreign nationality they had because they became disillusioned with life in a Western power and/or wanted to claim to be something else for kudos?If so you sort of picked a rather wanky nation to cling on to. Could only be worse if you'd opted for Wales.
Kilworthfox Posted 24 July 2009 Posted 24 July 2009 Careful Ultra, you've written something interesting there. As for your assertion that it was your players that bottled the penalties in Italia '90 - maybe. But one was more culpable than the others. Indeed, in all tourno's subsequently where you have gone out on penalties one players has always been more culpable than the others. YOUR FCUKING USELESS GOALKEEPERS And none of your dull, brain dead, pissing uselsss coaches, pundits, hacks, commentators et al has ever said that... Are you talking about Leicester's very own Peter Shilton? How wrong can you be? Shilts was great!
phillip j fry Posted 24 July 2009 Posted 24 July 2009 shilton was past his sell by date by then and shouldnt have been there imo.
Radovan's Caravan Posted 24 July 2009 Posted 24 July 2009 Are you one of these self-loathing English types, born and raised here, that started to clutch to any foreign nationality they had because they became disillusioned with life in a Western power and/or wanted to claim to be something else for kudos?If so you sort of picked a rather wanky nation to cling on to. Could only be worse if you'd opted for Wales. I'm one of those self-loathing Serb types, born and raised 'there', that started to clutch to the foreign nationality that I had because I became disillusioned with life in an East European shithhole and wanted to claim to be something else in order to have somewhere to leg it to... The wanky nation I clung to bombed us to fcuk and then chopped us to bits... Wales is neither a nation nor is it a country - it is a principality whose 'Taff' inhabitants are twice as bitter and twisted as the 'Jocks' and who hate their own kind even more than the 'Micks' do.
Finnegan Posted 24 July 2009 Posted 24 July 2009 Wales, like Scotland, Northern Ireland and England, is both a "nation" and a "country." All of which are members of a political union - if you're attempting to wind me up my deminishing Welsh claims of nation-hood you're about five years too late to get much of a reaction.
Radovan's Caravan Posted 24 July 2009 Posted 24 July 2009 Wales, like Scotland, Northern Ireland and England, is both a "nation" and a "country." All of which are members of a political union - if you're attempting to wind me up my deminishing Welsh claims of nation-hood you're about five years too late to get much of a reaction. Sorry Mr Finnegan, when you cling to 'otherness' you get things right. The correct national orders are these: England and Wales (NB 'wanky' England is not a country either) Scotland Great Britain (aka as 'The Union of England and Wales and Scotland) The United Kingdom (of Great Britain & Northern Ireland) Now redo your geography homework...
shen Posted 24 July 2009 Posted 24 July 2009 Now redo your geography homework... A nation is not a geographical entity I'm afraid (although I'll admit it's a much used term in geography). Whether or not Wales or the Welsh people constitute a nation depends on who you ask. The Welsh people can rightly claim to be a nation if its members feel distinct enough from e.g. the English people.
Radovan's Caravan Posted 25 July 2009 Posted 25 July 2009 A nation is not a geographical entity I'm afraid (although I'll admit it's a much used term in geography). Whether or not Wales or the Welsh people constitute a nation depends on who you ask. The Welsh people can rightly claim to be a nation if its members feel distinct enough from e.g. the English people. Ah the the 'pastry pedant' is at it again I see, this time trying to reduce nationhood to some vague, subjective, cultural notion. Wales's (unfortunate) consititutional position is very clearly laid out in the Act of Union (1707). Welsh territory came to the treaty as part of 'The Kingdom Of England', a single sovereign state, conceived in 927 AD with the fall of Northumbria to Athelstan, King of Wessex. An area roughly conforming to the contemporary geographical expression known as Wales was carved out within this 'Kingdom' by Gruffyd ap Llewellyn known as 'King of Gwynedd & Powys' (1039-1055) and latterly as 'King of Wales' (1055-1063). His sovereignty was widely recognised in decentralised Saxon England. Gruffyd's legacy did not survive him and was never emulated (not even by Owain Glyndwr - popularly referred to as Owain IV of Wales - the last Welsh Prince of Wales). HISTORY lesson over or was that CONSTITUTION & LAW? Seemed a bit like POLITICS to me. Tricky business settling boundaries between disciplines eh?
shen Posted 25 July 2009 Posted 25 July 2009 Ah the the 'pastry pedant' is at it again I see, this time trying to reduce nationhood to some vague, subjective, cultural notion. Wales's (unfortunate) consititutional position is very clearly laid out in the Act of Union (1707). Welsh territory came to the treaty as part of 'The Kingdom Of England', a single sovereign state, conceived in 927 AD with the fall of Northumbria to Athelstan, King of Wessex. An area roughly conforming to the contemporary geographical expression known as Wales was carved out within this 'Kingdom' by Gruffyd ap Llewellyn known as 'King of Gwynedd & Powys' (1039-1055) and latterly as 'King of Wales' (1055-1063). His sovereignty was widely recognised in decentralised Saxon England. Gruffyd's legacy did not survive him and was never emulated (not even by Owain Glyndwr - popularly referred to as Owain IV of Wales - the last Welsh Prince of Wales). HISTORY lesson over or was that CONSTITUTION & LAW? Seemed a bit like POLITICS to me. Tricky business settling boundaries between disciplines eh? It is indeed tricky to settle those boundaries, not that it really matters. But as a geographer I trigger quite easily . And you didn't need to come with a long elaborate explanation on how, when and where Wales came to be as you never addressed the fact that nationhood IS a vague, subjective, cultural notion. edit: And apologies for bringing the thread off topic, by the way
Edmund Posted 25 July 2009 Posted 25 July 2009 edit: And apologies for bringing the thread off topic, by the way Ive not read the whole thread but it looks like caravans doing. :D
Radovan's Caravan Posted 25 July 2009 Posted 25 July 2009 It is indeed tricky to settle those boundaries, not that it really matters. But as a geographer I trigger quite easily . And you didn't need to come with a long elaborate explanation on how, when and where Wales came to be as you never addressed the fact that nationhood IS a vague, subjective, cultural notion.edit: And apologies for bringing the thread off topic, by the way I could start a Voj separatist movement with or without vague nations of notionhood and no doubt those slimey treacherous bastards in MI6 would give me every assistance (before bumping me off, blaming it on Serb nationalists and installing Mandaric as President for Life). No apologies for going off thread at 02.52 and keeping this forum active
shen Posted 25 July 2009 Posted 25 July 2009 I could start a Voj separatist movement with or without vague nations of notionhood and no doubt those slimey treacherous bastards in MI6 would give me every assistance (before bumping me off, blaming it on Serb nationalists and installing Mandaric as President for Life).No apologies for going off thread at 02.52 and keeping this forum active intentional?
Radovan's Caravan Posted 25 July 2009 Posted 25 July 2009 intentional? Of course - I sponarise spoontaneously
Finnegan Posted 25 July 2009 Posted 25 July 2009 Sorry Mr Finnegan, when you cling to 'otherness' you get things right. The correct national orders are these:England and Wales (NB 'wanky' England is not a country either) Scotland Great Britain (aka as 'The Union of England and Wales and Scotland) The United Kingdom (of Great Britain & Northern Ireland) Now redo your geography homework... "England and Wales" is refered to almost exclusively in terms of law-making and will be reviewed yet again with what's planned to be further devolution granting the assembly the same legal status as the Scots government. Plans which may possibly be derailed with Cameron and his cronies coming into power but we'll have to see. Plaid probably picked the wrong ally, anyway. Regardless - Wales has a collective identity, language, sense of culture, sporting institutions and national facilities and whether or not some wind-up merchant on the internet wants to recognize it's "nationhood" I'm pretty sure the persons of Wales will go on seeing themselves residents of their own country. Happily. God bless'em, who are you to say otherwise? It's not really something law or technical definition can dictate. I would have thought a Serb would be marginally more understanding. The Croats are Croats, the Bosniaks are Bosniaks. There may not be a state of pressing political termoil here that has pushed Britain's cultural groupings to war and there may be no real need for "independance" but the Scots, Irish and Welsh have as much right to recognize themselves as a unique people with unique nations as any other "free" European power.
davieG Posted 25 July 2009 Posted 25 July 2009 "England and Wales" is refered to almost exclusively in terms of law-making and will be reviewed yet again with what's planned to be further devolution granting the assembly the same legal status as the Scots government.Plans which may possibly be derailed with Cameron and his cronies coming into power but we'll have to see. Plaid probably picked the wrong ally, anyway. Regardless - Wales has a collective identity, language, sense of culture, sporting institutions and national facilities and whether or not some wind-up merchant on the internet wants to recognize it's "nationhood" I'm pretty sure the persons of Wales will go on seeing themselves residents of their own country. Happily. God bless'em, who are you to say otherwise? It's not really something law or technical definition can dictate. I would have thought a Serb would be marginally more understanding. The Croats are Croats, the Bosniaks are Bosniaks. There may not be a state of pressing political termoil here that has pushed Britain's cultural groupings to war and there may be no real need for "independance" but the Scots, Irish and Welsh have as much right to recognise themselves as a unique people with unique nations as any other "free" European power. And the English one would think
Radovan's Caravan Posted 25 July 2009 Posted 25 July 2009 "England and Wales" is refered to almost exclusively in terms of law-making and will be reviewed yet again with what's planned to be further devolution granting the assembly the same legal status as the Scots government.Plans which may possibly be derailed with Cameron and his cronies coming into power but we'll have to see. Plaid probably picked the wrong ally, anyway. Regardless - Wales has a collective identity, language, sense of culture, sporting institutions and national facilities and whether or not some wind-up merchant on the internet wants to recognize it's "nationhood" I'm pretty sure the persons of Wales will go on seeing themselves residents of their own country. Happily. God bless'em, who are you to say otherwise? It's not really something law or technical definition can dictate. I would have thought a Serb would be marginally more understanding. The Croats are Croats, the Bosniaks are Bosniaks. There may not be a state of pressing political termoil here that has pushed Britain's cultural groupings to war and there may be no real need for "independance" but the Scots, Irish and Welsh have as much right to recognize themselves as a unique people with unique nations as any other "free" European power. My God you try to make out that I am thin skinned! If this is what you're like now you must have been burning holiday cottages five years ago! To make things worse you don't really uinderstand where I'm coming from (but there again the subtle differences between the 57 varieties of 'Serb' nationalisms are lost on most foreigners). Anyway I digress from my wind-up... Mr Finnegan you may recall a centre half who once played for Spurs who went on to manage your 'principality's' representatvie team. It was said that the greatest achievement of the unfortunately monickered Mike 'England' was that he got the north Welsh lads to talk to the south Welsh lads. There was a lot of talk about 'bridging the cultural divide.' That suggests to me that the national identity that you speak of is not as shared as you make out...
Fez of Mahrez Posted 25 July 2009 Posted 25 July 2009 Did Chandler ever mention he was Serbian before returning with this ludicrous new moniker and banging on about being "here in Voj"?
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