Wikileaks

[Guest MattP]

In fairness, the USA's track record on honesty and complying with human rights isn't great, people are right to be suspicious of them.

I agree, what that has do with us and a case with the Swedish authorities though....

[leicsmac]

I'm pretty certain no European country would be allowed to extradite anyone, anywhere to face the death penalty. Anyway so what if he is jailed for hacking? It is a crime.

What about him just getting grabbed while he is in Sweden? Or if he is extradited to the US, is sentenced to prison then 'suicides' a few months in. Either is possible.

I say again - the man has made some extremely powerful enemies, and I'm not in the least surprised that he is taking no chances.

As for the hacking itself - could a defence be made that the information uncovered was in the public interest? And if the US wanted to nail him for hacking, why haven't they come up with an official charge yet?

I was going to mention that, like most things though with a lot of leftists if it's a crime committed that is damaging or embarrassing to the big bad US of A a blind side will turned to the law.

Again, if the US want to charge him (like they did with Manning) they should get on with it. I like the US - spent a long time working there and have many friends there as a result. However (like in many other places to be fair) there are people in high places there who believe they can act however they want without consequence. Seeing them get a bloody nose amuses me...the irony is that Assange is actually trying the same thing (action without consequence) and those same people are squawking about it.

Agree he should answer his case in Sweden...but still think he's wise to be paranoid in this case.

[The Doctor]

I agree, what that has do with us and a case with the Swedish authorities though....

Assange's argument is that when he's turned over to the Swedes, they'll ship him on to the US for the espionage charges. Webbo saying that no European country would extradite him if the death penalty is an option of punishment for those charges is all well and good, but can we trust the US if they say that he definitely won't face the death penalty even if found guilty?

[Guest MattP]

Assange's argument is that when he's turned over to the Swedes, they'll ship him on to the US for the espionage charges. Webbo saying that no European country would extradite him if the death penalty is an option of punishment for those charges is all well and good, but can we trust the US if they say that he definitely won't face the death penalty even if found guilty?

I realise that, so we should be handing him over to the Swedes and let them sort it out with America, considering we aren't allowed to deport people like Qatada back to Yemen where he is wanted for blowing people to kingdon come I very much doubt the EU will allow Assange to be deported if their is any threat he faces the death penalty.

Anyone got any ideas as to why he chose Ecuador anyway? lucky guess?

[BoneDog]

Double-agents everywhere!

One of the ladies in Sweden is a certified DA from what I've read and I'm not sure if even Assange is one too and this whole palaver is just a massive show.

This is an interesting and apparently quite widespread view on wikileaks and Assange. 2.27 if you want to hear.

"NATO rolls out it's heavy artillery - wikileaks"

Looks like they got cut off during this interview by another one of those hack-attack thingymabobs.

[Guest MattP]

Double-agents everywhere!

One of the ladies in Sweden is a certified DA from what I've read and I'm not sure if even Assange is one too and this whole palaver is just a massive show.

Heard that in a few places from a lot of Marijuana smokers

[The Doctor]

Well, that wasn't a predictable response.

I realise that, so we should be handing him over to the Swedes and let them sort it out with America, considering we aren't allowed to deport people like Qatada back to Yemen where he is wanted for blowing people to kingdon come I very much doubt the EU will allow Assange to be deported if their is any threat he faces the death penalty.

Anyone got any ideas as to why he chose Ecuador anyway? lucky guess?

True, but the Swedes seem oddly desperate to deport before they question him, particularly since they investigated this before and found insufficient evidence about the case...

Don't know, I was hoping he'd choose North Korea, for the irony and the biggest possible middle finger to the US.

[21st Century Fox]

I realise that, so we should be handing him over to the Swedes and let them sort it out with America, considering we aren't allowed to deport people like Qatada back to Yemen where he is wanted for blowing people to kingdon come I very much doubt the EU will allow Assange to be deported if their is any threat he faces the death penalty.

Anyone got any ideas as to why he chose Ecuador anyway? lucky guess?

I believe it was because Correa offered it to him on his chat show.

The point still stands that the U.S. could easy come out and say that they have no interest in his extradition and the whole fiasco could be over.

[Webbo]

What about him just getting grabbed while he is in Sweden? Or if he is extradited to the US, is sentenced to prison then 'suicides' a few months in. Either is possible.

I say again - the man has made some extremely powerful enemies, and I'm not in the least surprised that he is taking no chances.

As for the hacking itself - could a defence be made that the information uncovered was in the public interest? And if the US wanted to nail him for hacking, why haven't they come up with an official charge yet?

Agree he should answer his case in Sweden...but still think he's wise to be paranoid in this case.

Why hasn't he been grabbed while he's here? Maybe the US don't intend to charge him.Why not just bump him off? These are all just hypotheticals. The only facts are he's wanted in Sweden and he's jumped bail.

[sphericalfox]

I believe it was because Correa offered it to him on his chat show.

The point still stands that the U.S. could easy come out and say that they have no interest in his extradition and the whole fiasco could be over.

North or South?

[21st Century Fox]

North or South?

[Guest MattP]

True, but the Swedes seem oddly desperate to deport before they question him, particularly since they investigated this before and found insufficient evidence about the case...

Don't know, I was hoping he'd choose North Korea, for the irony and the biggest possible middle finger to the US.

I doubt his sexual perversions would be fulfilled in Pyongyang.

Do the Swedes seem desperate to deport him? I've not read anything that makes me think that.

[ADK]

I do wonder if assange would be better off just going to Sweden after all. I don't really see why Sweden would be more likely to extradite him to the US than Britain.

[Guest MattP]

The point still stands that the U.S. could easy come out and say that they have no interest in his extradition and the whole fiasco could be over.

Well I'd imagine they do want to speak to him, I would if I was in the US government.

[Webbo]

I do wonder if assange would be better off just going to Sweden after all. I don't really see why Sweden would be more likely to extradite him to the US than Britain.

They might put him in jail for sexual assault though.

[BoneDog]

Heard that in a few places from a lot of Marijuana smokers

Have you heard about his history with cults that were ran by some powerful/dodgy characters? The whole story of wikileaks and Assange is strange if you ask me and I don't know which side to believe on this one at the moment!

Pretty sure the whole affair'll turn out to be some sort of psy-op though.

[Guest MattP]

Have you heard about his history with cults that were ran by some powerful/dodgy characters? The whole story of wikileaks and Assange is strange if you ask me and I don't know which side to believe on this one at the moment!

Pretty sure the whole affair'll turn out to be some sort of psy-op though.

Nope.

My knowledge of him basically comes down to a few articles in the Guardian and Times, Wikipedia, I can honestly say I didn't want to read too much more, he's clearly a very disturbed man with a hell of lot of skeletons in his cupboard who became a lot more powerful than he really wanted to be.

It will be interesting how it pans out, I'd be very upset if Britain's reputation was dragged through the mud protecting him mind, he clearly has things to answer for in Sweden at the least and the fact he needs to find a slighly dodgy South American state to take him, I suppose we have some irony in the fact the President who offered to shelter him sued a national paper for an opinion on him and created his own national state TV channel.

Maybe he'll get his own show.

[ADK]

They might put him in jail for sexual assault though.

Even if they did, hes been under house arrest for ages already. Can't imagine the sentence for that is particularly long in Sweden and his supporters would believe he was innocent and stitched up anyway.

[Webbo]

Even if they did, hes been under house arrest for ages already. Can't imagine the sentence for that is particularly long in Sweden and his supporters would believe he was innocent and stitched up anyway.

Can't argue with that.

[Guest MattP]

Even if they did, hes been under house arrest for ages already. Can't imagine the sentence for that is particularly long in Sweden and his supporters would believe he was innocent and stitched up anyway.

You want to see the Japs, you almost get a medal for rape and when you took a crowded train it was perfectly acceptable to grind up against women.

[lavrentis]

You want to see the Japs, you almost get a medal for rape and when you took a crowded train it was perfectly acceptable to grind up against women.

Until the government took a stance on it, there are signs on Tokyo trains actually telling people not to do it

[Guest MattP]

Until the government took a stance on it, there are signs on Tokyo trains actually telling people not to do it

Good job I couldn't understand them.

[Daggers]

...he was at his peak then when he kept the insults for people like that rather than me because I never offered any facts to support my fantasy opinions.

At some point you are really going to have to let it go.

We may have had eSex but you (obviously) aren't my type and I am never going to get back into bed with a bunny-boiling mentalist like yourself. Go hang around with Webbo or someone else who is feeling equally aggrieved and challenged by the situation; do some macramé or something together and tell each other how my eDick wasn't what I'd led you to believe it was.

Before you know it you'll be spooning with cooling and I'll be but a distant memory.

[Guest MattP]

At some point you are really going to have to let it go.

We may have had eSex but you (obviously) aren't my type and I am never going to get back into bed with a bunny-boiling mentalist like yourself. Go hang around with Webbo or someone else who is feeling equally aggrieved and challenged by the situation; do some macramé or something together and tell each other how my eDick wasn't what I'd led you to believe it was.

Before you know it you'll be spooning with cooling and I'll be but a distant memory.

Do what ever you want, you were great when I first came to this place, never failed to provide a laugh, the change over the last few months has been pretty dramatic, you can try and put me, webbo and cooling etc together but I think we both know we aren't the only ones that have noticed.

Peace and love.

[Webbo]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/16/julian-assange-wikileaks-refugee-protection

Julian Assange case: stay patient and do the right thing

Refugee protection does not apply to the WikiLeaks founder and it is wrong of him to claim it

As defined by the United Nations convention on refugees, a refugee is a person who "owing to well founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country". A little later on, the text of the convention specifically states that refugee status "shall not apply to any person with respect to whom there are serious reasons for considering that … he has committed a serious non-political crime outside the country of refuge".

Whatever views one may have about Julian Assange as a WikiLeaksactivist, it is clear that in legal and moral terms he cannot properly be described as a refugee. To be a refugee is to be in need of very specific protection, desperately won and deservedly cherished. Refugee protection does not apply to Mr Assange and it is wrong of him to claim it. As Charlie Chaplin said when a Nazi newspaper reporter once asked him in Berlin if he were Jewish, he does not have that honour. But the inappropriate nature of the claim goes further. Since Mr Assange is wanted by the courts in Sweden for the specific and proper purpose of answering two allegations of sexual assault, which is in anyone's language a serious non-political crime, it is also clear that he is specifically disbarred from being treated as a refugee.

None of this fundamental aspect of Mr Assange's status was discussed in any serious way on Thursday by the Ecuadorian foreign minister, Ricardo Patiño, in his long statement on the case in Quito. Mr Patiño made plenty of other points before confirming Ecuador's decision to grant asylum to Mr Assange. Most of these were based on the claim that the United States wants to get its hands on Mr Assange because of WikiLeaks, that it may torture him, that his deportation to Sweden by the UK would bring this closer, and that Ecuador has a right to protect him.

No one should be naïve about the US, but this is a fallacious chain of reasoning. The US has not said whether it wants to detain Mr Assange, though it has had plenty of time to do so. If it wanted his extradition, the US might logically be more likely to make use of Britain's excessively generous extradition treaty with the US – which has not happened – rather than wait until he was in Sweden, when both Sweden and the UK would have to sign off on any extradition application. And neither Sweden nor the UK would in any case deport someone who might face torture or the death penalty. Ecuador's own human rights record is also far from exemplary, as Human Rights Watch has made clear.

Yet two wrongs do not make a right. Just as Ecuador is wrong to pretend that Mr Assange is a refugee, so Britain is wrong to threaten to enter Ecuador's London embassy. The Foreign Office may have been factually entitled to remind Ecuador this week that a 1987 act allows it, if permissible under international law, to enter the premises. But thereminder is more trouble than it is worth, and risks being massively counterproductive to this country's interests in places where fewer scruples apply. The threat was a mistake, allowing Ecuador to shift the argument away from the Swedish criminal charges. Our diplomats in hostile or failing states would be put at unacceptable risk if this threat were carried out.

Thursday's events do not change the realities of the Assange extradition case. Mr Assange remains in this country. He is the subject of an extradition order that has been issued under due process. He cannot leave the embassy without being arrested – an embassy car is not diplomatically protected. Ecuador has found a way to tweak the tail of the imperialist lion, but the law is not on Ecuador's side and, in the end, the law should be upheld. Mr Assange should be extradited to answer Sweden's criminal allegations. In the meantime, Britain should concentrate on being patient and doing the right thing