Defence

[ArnarGunnlaugsson]

We haven't won a game that Bruma has started in.

5 games.

Not entirely his fault, but not the best record either.

[cc_star]

I'm tolerant and mature with people who deserve it, not people like CC. Being a moderator doesn't mean I can't have an opinion, and my opinion is that CC is miserable git and has been looking for things to moan about since Sven walked in the door.

Ricardo was not just blamed for goals that he conceded that were his fault (was was that one goal?). People along with CC were on his back blaming him for every goal, saying it was his fault for unsettling the defence as that he wasn't organising them. If I get a chance i'll dig out the posts.

I've not slated Weale at all, i've said a dozen times i'd rather have him in goal. But when certain people were blaming everything on Ricardo, there were some of us saying the blame should lie with the defence. So basically the point is, now public enemy number one is out of the way people can see what the problem is as they would never dream of slagging off Weale who is one of the "untouchables" like Waghorn and hobbs.

Obivously i'm not the only one who could see what was going on.... http://www.foxestalk...showtopic=72066

Sorry, but coming from the man who says Sven has signed 402 defenders, spent £10m, that he HAS to play Bruma and that we HAVE paid massive fees for all our our loans.

Keep waving that flag

I've never blamed Ricardo for every single goal, but I've said the defence has been at 6's & 7's since he was introduced into the side, at best that is a contributory factor (even most idiots could see that)

I've slagged off Weale loads and have said far more times than I've mentioned Ricardo that Weale needs improving on

At best you're a childish idiot - I would say a lot more but this is a forum about all things lcfc, and not about my lower than the gutter opinion of your badself I'll leave it at that

With regards to yet more half out of context quotes of mine:

Sven has signed several boat loads of defenders, so! what has it achieved & why keep quoting fact?

The owners have ploughed in 20% more in January than was budgeted for the whole season

I've mirrored the popular opinion that Bruma's deal is such that he plays when available, so what?

And yes, if we've massively overspent the budget then it stands to reason that we have paid big fees for the players who aren't even on our books - where else has the money gone (apart from Sven's wages)

You keep quoting me, is it to highlight that my points are indeed just obvious points?

If you're a mod although I don't really believe it as the only mod-like thing you've done is comment in locked posts to try and have the last word (childish idiot again), perhaps you should spend less time trawling through individuals old posts to try (& fail) to make your point and more time merging all the duplicate posts that litter the forums

You're excellent at being a nitpicking forum troll but offer less than nothing in the way of debate yourself.

[hackneyfox]

Bring on the clowns.

The negative ones that is.

Les TA Jon sums up the defensive changes perfectly.

Last years side was very defence minded side, NFP was a centre back.

[harryboi72]

We need either a keeper or a centre back who can put in 100%, never give up, be brave and most importantly lead the rest of the defense and hold the team together

[Guest Col city fan]

So when Ricardo is in goal we have threads blaming him, now it's Weale in goal it's blame the defence time. Same faces in here again who were slagging off Yakubu the last couple of weeks, no doubt say nothing about him now.

I was at the Borough game and, despite scoring three (yes... he scored three which was great), the Yaks all round play was dreadful, particularly first half. You need to allow people the right to ventilate..this has again been a frustrating, inconsistent season. Most of the posts on here are correct. The defence is ridiculously inexperienced and is based around going forward with fluidity, rather than being solid and strong defensively. To let Hobbs go to bring in Bruma, to me, makes NO sense and people have the right to question such an action. I still have the feeling that Sven will get it right in the end, but some of his decisions over the past few weeks have left the fans surprised and confused. Hence posts like these. Your posts are usually well thought out but you need to be more tolerant of other's opinions and, dare I say it, accept that sometimes you aren't correct

[Guest Col city fan]

How come we're "worse off than ever"? Ever seen us play in League One?

How can you not look at five wins in a row between late January and February as a "hint of consistency"? What would qualify as a "hint of consistency" in your books then?

"...he's signed an unbelievable amount of players, many of whom are no longer with us."

What are you saying?

The only loan players gone are Davies, Bednar and Kirkland.Remain Yakubu, Kamara, Bruma, Naughton, Mee and Van Aanholt.

That's 3 who're gone compared to 6 that are still with us - just to get it straight.

As for your points on Hobbs, are you seriously implying that loan players don't learn from their mistakes and don't give it their 100% every game they play, but the so-called "established" ones do???

Have you seen Oakley play this season? Or witnessed some of Weale's flops in the box?

Given the way the loan system works and the January transfer window being Sven's only real option to this day, I don't think signing loan players was a bad move.

The majority of those have proved to be good enough for us to move up the table.

When you say "we'll never be successful unless the defense is sorted out" you're looking at a fourth of the entire problem.

The odd goalkeeper situation, our stale central midfield and the lack of quality strikers being the other three.

Personally, I think our central midfield needs much more attention than the defensive side right now.

Numerous times our axis in the middle gave up possession too easily, leading to quick counterattacks, dangerous scenes in Weale's/Ricardo's box and as a consequence, goals against.

Also, the central midfield has so far often failed to impose its style of play onto the opposition.

How come the moaners and bitchers of lately on here willfully and intentionally exclude our "established" players from criticism?

I don't really read a lot of threads on their own shockers, which is a bit unfair, when you consider the fact that you go up or down as a team.

It's as if they're holy and bad words about their occasional sub-par performances treated like blasphemy - or because Pearson is still Gospel to some?

Looking at this very crude mix of players, still being close to make it to the playoffs (albeit rather theoretically) is an achievement in itself.

As a Leicester City supporter this season, we've been part of an ongoing experiment with new owners, a new manager, a lot of new players and this shuffling around will continue to frustrate some until the end of April (or May).

All I know is, blaming the likes of Sven or Ricardo is a very short-sighted and foolish affair and I'm not losing too much sleep over it.

Yes, I wasn't too happy about throwing a 3-1 lead away against Middlesbrough last Saturday myself or having to watch the poor game against Norwich at the Walkers or the abysmal match versus Portsmouth later on, but I've come to accept that we'll have to live with this sort of game for another couple of weeks.

Knowing that we can still make the cut to the Premier League is more of a bonus thought in the whole scenario.

There are a lot more teams in this division who deserve to go up much more than we do, and that's because their managers and owners have been able to build on a promotion campaign for longer than just half a season.

Always keep that in mind.

Personally, I think our central midfield needs much more attention than the defensive side right now.

Numerous times our axis in the middle gave up possession too easily, leading to quick counterattacks, dangerous scenes in Weale's/Ricardo's box and as a consequence, goals against.

Also, the central midfield has so far often failed to impose its style of play onto the opposition.

[lee(lcfc)]

i say give lamey and berner a go in the team they might be willing to fight for a place but the problem is sven only wants his signing to play which is wrong

[Babylon]

Keep waving that flag

I've never blamed Ricardo for every single goal, but I've said the defence has been at 6's & 7's since he was introduced into the side, at best that is a contributory factor (even most idiots could see that)

"The defence is at 6's & 7's since he came in, when previously it was stronger how is that not the useless feckin clown's fault?" If that's not blaming it all on him I don't know what is. Now lets look at the facts, I think around the time of your posts Ricardo had conceded the same number of goals as Weale had in the same number of games (against inferior opposition). The defence was all over the place against Sheffield United, so much so that Weale walked away with man of the match for saving our sorry arse. When Weale comes back the defence is still all over the place and he conceeds three goals.

Most people with any kind of rational mind would have deduced long ago that the one factor that is consistent is the defence has been bad, not the keeper. They are really not that far away from each other as they both have faults.

Sven has signed several boat loads of defenders, so! what has it achieved & why keep quoting fact?

Because you ignore half the facts around the signings. Cunningham got injured and needed to replace him, Davies decided he would rather go to a premier league team. If they had stayed fit or signed on the dotted line Neither Bruma or PVA would even be here. You slag him off for changing the team but forget half of the changes have been forced. Try reading Les-TA-Jon's post.

I've mirrored the popular opinion that Bruma's deal is such that he plays when available, so what?

Popular opinion? I've seen it mentioned by about three people. All of whom are in your little "anti Sven" gang.

The owners have ploughed in 20% more in January than was budgeted for the whole season

And yes, if we've massively overspent the budget then it stands to reason that we have paid big fees for the players who aren't even on our books - where else has the money gone (apart from Sven's wages)

I've been through it all before, several times but you just ignored it. Just read this...

http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=71823&st=80&p=1824659entry1824659

If you're a mod although I don't really believe it as the only mod-like thing you've done is comment in locked posts to try and have the last word (childish idiot again), perhaps you should spend less time trawling through individuals old posts to try (& fail) to make your point and more time merging all the duplicate posts that litter the forums

As i've been through several times already, a mod can comment in a locked thread. If I am replying to you int he course of a discussion and it's locked by another mod (i'm not the only one) the post still goes in there. It doesn't flash up saying it's locked, it just goes in as normal. If you want to reply you can post anywhere you want to carry on the discussion, it's an open forum and it also has a Private Message function, THERE IS NO LAST WORD.

I wouldn't expect you to understand the point being made in the quotes, you constantly fail to understand most posts the aren't anti everything Sven.

You're excellent at being a nitpicking forum troll but offer less than nothing in the way of debate yourself.

How can you debate with someone who ignores your posts when you prove them wrong, or at least show there is enough doubt to not be making those kind of comments. It's not just me you do it to everyone, suddenly vanishing when you have no comeback. All you have added to the forum is a giant bout of misery, I called you out as Mr Miserable long ago and christ I was correct.

At the end of the day, the people who tend to agree with me are the sensible level headed posters. The ones that agree with you are mostly uber negatives or the trolls, who coincidently all seem to have rather high warning statuses next to their name. I think that says a lot.

[Babylon]

To let Hobbs go to bring in Bruma, to me, makes NO sense and people have the right to question such an action. I still have the feeling that Sven will get it right in the end, but some of his decisions over the past few weeks have left the fans surprised and confused. Hence posts like these. Your posts are usually well thought out but you need to be more tolerant of other's opinions and, dare I say it, accept that sometimes you aren't correct

Have I said it was right to swap Hobbs for Bruma, have I said I don't think the defence is not too inexperienced, have I said some of his decisions weren't pointless (swapping weale and ricardo and vitor for bruma). I've never said Bruma is great, or that Ricardo is brilliant. I've not said it's wrong to critisise the defence, if anything my posts are saying it's right to critisie them (along with the midfield). What's wrong is that it seems to have taken Weale coming back in goal for people to switch their attention.

When things go wrong people on here are very quick to pjn the blame on someone. This thread would never have been started if Ricardo was still in goal, and that's what gets my goat. It would have been another round of "it's the clown in goals fault". But now Weale (a favourite with certain sections of the crowd) is back in goal, the focus needs to switch elsewhere.

I very rarely pin my colours to any mast and make sweeping statements about players/managers being great, or players/managers being shit. Maybe further down the line but not when the players or managers have only been here for a short period of time.

For me people take the easy option and blame one player like Ricardo, or blame Sven for making changes to the defence. But if you scratch the surface it's not always so clear cut, the defence has always been iffy this year and many changes have been forced upon the manager.

[The Doctor]

i say give lamey a go in the team they might be willing to fight for a place but the problem is sven only wants his signing to play which is wrong

Of course, let's drop naughton, one of our best performers this season, for a player who never impressed in his appearances at the start of the season.

As for sven only wanting his signings to play, could that not be because his signings are better than the alternatives that were already here?

Yakubu is much better than fryatt, waghorn, howard or anyone else who's been at the club this year,

Vassell v Dyer is close one, both have pace but vassell provides a better final ball than dyer 90% of the time,

While neilson was good at the start of this season, Naughton is a big step up in quality

PVA and Cunningham both offer more going foward than berner and, solid though berner is, he's just not capable of playing the games in quick succession that this league demands,

Bamba is much more adept at playing the ball out, a key part of our style of play, than hobbs or morrison.

From what i've seen of Mee so far he's been putting himself about and roughing up the opposition strikers - something you need in a defence and something hobbs or morrison don't provide, also he gives the central defensive pair more balance.

The only signings that perhaps shouldn't play ahead of their predecessors are bruma and ricardo - although ricardo and weale are on a par with each other in terms of what they bring to the team.

[cc_star]

Of course, let's drop naughton, one of our best performers this season, for a player who never impressed in his appearances at the start of the season.

As for sven only wanting his signings to play, could that not be because his signings are better than the alternatives that were already here?

Yakubu is much better than fryatt, waghorn, howard or anyone else who's been at the club this year,

Vassell v Dyer is close one, both have pace but vassell provides a better final ball than dyer 90% of the time,

While neilson was good at the start of this season, Naughton is a big step up in quality

PVA and Cunningham both offer more going foward than berner and, solid though berner is, he's just not capable of playing the games in quick succession that this league demands,

Bamba is much more adept at playing the ball out, a key part of our style of play, than hobbs or morrison.

From what i've seen of Mee so far he's been putting himself about and roughing up the opposition strikers - something you need in a defence and something hobbs or morrison don't provide, also he gives the central defensive pair more balance.

The only signings that perhaps shouldn't play ahead of their predecessors are bruma and ricardo - although ricardo and weale are on a par with each other in terms of what they bring to the team.

Your list of players being better than was already here, is compelling and persuasive and even though I don't totally agree, I certainly see what you say.

Yakubu is a much better goalscorer than anyone on our books, yes - but his 90min play is poor - however he should be in the team, because we can carry one poor teamplayer when they offer the scoring benefits that The Yak does

Vassell vs Dyer - Dyer is too erratic for a regular starting place & whilst Vassell is more controlled he actually offers little and the majority of attacks that go through him end up with him beating one man but losing the ball to the next. Its a close call I have no preference either way, but Vassell's performances have nowhere been at the level to make him undroppable and taking him out the team occasionally would surely serve as motivation to him whilst offering hope & motivation to other players in the squad like Dyer etc.

Naughton is a massive step-up in quality. No discussion! Although Neilson is a better backup than Lamey IMO

PVA & Cunningham are certainly younger than Berner, but I'm far from convinced they're better. Berner played generally next to another player not known for pace who was also playing out of position (Hobbs) it didn't really do either of them any favours. If he was blended into a better team, so was playing just outside of Mee he would have faired better. Going forward Berner offers us loads, his crosses are dangerous (unlike PVAs) and he knows when to cut-inside & when to overlap making more room for the winger. He's defensively a million times better than PVA. He is also a massive threat from corners, on his rare appearences scoring or assisting in nearly all our corner goals this season. And he has one hell of a freekick on him. PVA offers no defensive awareness whatsoever, he's out of position, doesn't know what to do and his pace counts for little, going forward his pace is uncontrolled, his final ball is non-existent, he's not so much the next Ashley Cole as the next Franz Carr

Bamba is a more comfortable player on the ball than almost anyone at the club, he just loves it at his feet. My heart may be in my mouth occasionally at watching him bringing the ball down when it should be cleared but he's just about good enough to get away with his poor decision making. Morrison was promising because he was versatile, I'm not going to say he was better than Bamba because he's isn't at the moment, but IMO Morrison was a promising young lad & worthy of a squad place. Hobbs... well, Hobbs can't pass to the same level as Bamba, that's for sure, but I haven't seen anything in any performances or our goals against column to suggest anyone is a better defender overall even if they can pass better. For me one of the biggest shames of the season is that Hobbs wasn't given a chance to play RCB under Sven & one of the players supposedly more comfortable on the ball (Davies/Bamba etc) moved to the unfavoured LCB spot. Also Hobbs & Bamba or Mee at RCB & LCB respectively are a great blend which is what creating a team is all about. I'm not sure what Bruma is all about, seems entirely pointless to me. The best pairing currently at the club is Bamba/Mee although with our troubled LB spot Mee is certainly better both defending & going forward than PVA (pace is nothing without an end product) it means that Naughton/Bamba/Vitor/Mee is our best option.

So whilst I find your points persuasive & I can see your points, I think on the pitch its not working out like that - other than they suit the way Sven wants to play better, but actually better players I'm not so sure and they certainly aren't a better team, although not worse either - just different.

[The Doctor]

PVA & Cunningham are certainly younger than Berner, but I'm far from convinced they're better. Berner played generally next to another player not known for pace who was also playing out of position (Hobbs) it didn't really do either of them any favours. If he was blended into a better team, so was playing just outside of Mee he would have faired better. Going forward Berner offers us loads, his crosses are dangerous (unlike PVAs) and he knows when to cut-inside & when to overlap making more room for the winger. He's defensively a million times better than PVA. He is also a massive threat from corners, on his rare appearences scoring or assisting in nearly all our corner goals this season. And he has one hell of a freekick on him.

PVA offers no defensive awareness whatsoever, he's out of position, doesn't know what to do and his pace counts for little, going forward his pace is uncontrolled, his final ball is non-existent, he's not so much the next Ashley Cole as the next Franz Carr

Morrison was promising because he was versatile, I'm not going to say he was better than Bamba because he's isn't at the moment, but IMO Morrison was a promising young lad & worthy of a squad place. Hobbs... well, Hobbs can't pass to the same level as Bamba, that's for sure, but I haven't seen anything in any performances or our goals against column to suggest anyone is a better defender overall even if they can pass better.

For me one of the biggest shames of the season is that Hobbs wasn't given a chance to play RCB under Sven & one of the players supposedly more comfortable on the ball (Davies/Bamba etc) moved to the unfavoured LCB spot. Also Hobbs & Bamba or Mee at RCB & LCB respectively are a great blend which is what creating a team is all about.

I'm not sure what Bruma is all about, seems entirely pointless to me. The best pairing currently at the club is Bamba/Mee although with our troubled LB spot Mee is certainly better both defending & going forward than PVA (pace is nothing without an end product) it means that Naughton/Bamba/Vitor/Mee is our best option.

1) I'd agree Berner perhaps would have looked better than he has had he been next to a CB with a tad more pace, however while PVA and Cunningham aren't/weren't necessarily better defenders than Berner, they had youth on their side - the ability to get up and down the line with regularity and contribute to the team while attacking and still be able to get back quickly to help out the defence should the opposition counter.

Despite his talent going foward, Berner just doesn't have the legs for that anymore. Whether he has the on-field intellegence to make that lack of pace redundant is another matter.

2) A bit harsh but i can see where you are coming from, he's had a couple of bad games and a couple of good games with us and even in those good games his inexperience has been there for all to see - he has the potential to get much better and time is on his side however, paticularly with the start we had, can we afford to be blooding a youngster like him, who we have minimal chance of re-signing while having to chase down a relatively large points deficit?

3) Morrison was indeed versatile, a threat from set pieces and at times last season showed his ability to get foward well, disappointing to see him go but his performances at Sheff Wed since have somewhat validated sven's decision to let him leave.

4) Sven did trial that at the start of january and, in paticular at home to man city in the cup, it seemed very successful, however Bamba's recent performances when playing on his un-natural side have been fairly disappointing, whether that is due to partnering bruma or playing on the left, i'm not sure - we didn't see enough of him on the right side of defence to pass judgement.

As for mee at left centre-back, i couldn't agree more, partnering him and one of bamba/vitor i would expect to see shore up our defence, provided they were given enough time together.

To summarise, Sven has done a good job since arriving, patching up a team low on morale following a P/O semi-final defeat and the loss of their mentor Pearson in disappointing circumstances, followed by his replacement making a right-pig's ear of things.

But his tinkering with the defence when not really needed could have let us down slightly this season, whether we'd have been better defensively and be in a better position had he stuck with a defence and only made changes where enforced is anyones guess.

[lee(lcfc)]

Of course, let's drop naughton, one of our best performers this season, for a player who never impressed in his appearances at the start of the season.

As for sven only wanting his signings to play, could that not be because his signings are better than the alternatives that were already here?

Yakubu is much better than fryatt, waghorn, howard or anyone else who's been at the club this year,

Vassell v Dyer is close one, both have pace but vassell provides a better final ball than dyer 90% of the time,

While neilson was good at the start of this season, Naughton is a big step up in quality

PVA and Cunningham both offer more going foward than berner and, solid though berner is, he's just not capable of playing the games in quick succession that this league demands,

Bamba is much more adept at playing the ball out, a key part of our style of play, than hobbs or morrison.

From what i've seen of Mee so far he's been putting himself about and roughing up the opposition strikers - something you need in a defence and something hobbs or morrison don't provide, also he gives the central defensive pair more balance.

The only signings that perhaps shouldn't play ahead of their predecessors are bruma and ricardo - although ricardo and weale are on a par with each other in terms of what they bring to the team.

Yer they maybe better but you cant be losing game here and there or just getting a point, you cant play one team one week and you lose then play the same team again the week after and lose or draw. since we played bristol city we have won 1 and drawn 2 in 7 game not good playing for the play offs.

you said berner not capable off playing quick succession but didnt he play alright last season and i would rather have a defender what stay back then run up the pitch loses the ball and we are then open at the back.

The yak yer he showed what he can do the last game but you get waghorn who come off the bench and works his sock off for 10, 20 mins scored the winning goal for us againist bristol city and still dont get first team call up. and why drop weales when in good form i can tell you because it was a player he signed.

[The Doctor]

Yes, they maybe better but you can't be losing a game here and a game there or just getting a point, you can't field one team one week and lose then field the same team again the week after and lose or draw.

Since we played bristol city we have won 1 and drawn 2 in 7 games which is not good enough for the play offs.

You said Berner is not capable of playing games in quick succession but didn't he play alright last season?

Also, I would rather have a defender who stays back than run up the pitch, lose the ball and leave us open at the back.

The yak, yes he showed us what he can do in the last game but you've got waghorn who comes off the bench and works his sock off for 10 to 20 mins, scored the winning goal for us against Bristol City and still didn't get a first team call up.

Why drop Weale when he was in good form? I can tell you it was because Ricardo was a player he signed.

gah, so much bad grammar.

While some of svens team selections have not been good enough, you can't chop and change every time you lose - as you suggest there. Keeping a constant team selection, only altering for injuries, may not pay-off immediately but it will come good after a run of games.

I don't recall arguing that our form was good enough for the play-offs.

He did, however that was under Pearson, a methodical, somewhat boring manager who's playing style revolved around being rigid and defensively strong whereas Sven's playing style has been more fluid and attack-minded, a style Berner probably isn't suited for.

Full-backs, paticularly in the 4-51/4-3-3 that we play, have to get foward and contribute to the attack as they are the ones who provide the width, we can't switch to a 4-4-2 because we aren't strong enough in the centre of midfield so we have to play a 3 man centre mid and rely on the full-backs to act as wing-backs.

Regarding waghorn, rearrange these words: One, Swallow, Doesn't, A, Summer, Make. So waghorn scored 1 against Bristol City, he's also missed several good opportunities and in most of his cameos he has not impressed sufficiently to warrant a place in the starting line-up.

Finally, bullshit - how can you be certain Weale was dropped because of the two senior goalkeepers we have, Sven signed Ricardo?

It's possible and far more likely that it was because Ricardo is much more comfortable recieving the ball and his distribution is better, two things which are important for a keeper in the system we play to have.

[Ambitious]

These two men are the answers our problems