MikeyT Posted 5 July 2011 Posted 5 July 2011 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-14025386?OCID=fbwin Police in Australia's New South Wales state have been given more powers to remove burkas and other face coverings to identify crime suspects. Anyone who refuses to show their face could now be jailed for up to a year or face a heavy fine. The move follows the recent case of a Muslim woman who was acquitted after a judge ruled her Islamic veil made a positive identification impossible. Islamic leaders in the state said they were comfortable with the new measure. However, civil liberty groups expressed concern that the police were being given powers they did not need. 'Clarity and certainty' The government of Australia's most populous state approved the changes at a meeting late on Monday. map "I don't care whether a person is wearing a motorcycle helmet, a burka, niqab, face veil or anything else, the police should be allowed to require those people to make their identification clear," Premier Barry O'Farrell said. He added: "I have every respect for various religions and beliefs but when it comes to enforcing the law the police should be given adequate powers to make a clear identification." Anyone in New South Wales who refuses to remove their face covering could now be fined A$5,500 (£3,672, $5,882) or put in prison for a year. State police welcomed the change, saying it would "provide clarity and certainty for both the public and for police officers". The Islamic Council of New South Wales said it accepted the move, while the Muslim Women's Association said it had no problem if police handled the issue sensitively, including the deployment of female police officers. The changes come after the high-profile case of Carnita Matthews, who last year was sentenced to six months in prison for falsely accusing a policeman of trying to forcibly remove her burka during a random breath test. But she won on appeal after a judge ruled that the prosecution could not prove she had made the false complaint because officers were not able to see her face. State police previously had the power to request the removal of face veils while investigating serious offences, but not on more routine matters. The Western Australian state government is now also considering introducing similar legislation, the BBC's Phil Mercer in Sydney reports.
SOCCERROO FOX Posted 5 July 2011 Posted 5 July 2011 There has also been plenty of cases when armed robberies have been commited by people wearing burkas. Personally i think it is a nessecary new law, you can't use religion to hide your identitiy and if you don't do anything wrong you wont have any issues.
Darkon84 Posted 5 July 2011 Posted 5 July 2011 agreed, necessary new law. you would be required to remove a balaclava or helmet if you were suspected of comitting a crime, so other face covering garments, even religious, should have to follow suit. A law like this would never get passed over here.
ozleicester Posted 5 July 2011 Posted 5 July 2011 im ashamed and embarrassed, I should never have left, they get away with all kinds of shit when your back is turned. Shameful behaviour Australia... Its as if Little Johnny cvnt is still running the place
Trav Le Bleu Posted 5 July 2011 Posted 5 July 2011 How do the police in Muslim countries deal with this? I'd be interested to know.
I am Rod Hull Posted 5 July 2011 Posted 5 July 2011 How do the police in Muslim countries deal with this? I'd be interested to know.
Haydos Posted 5 July 2011 Posted 5 July 2011 im ashamed and embarrassed, I should never have left, they get away with all kinds of shit when your back is turned. Shameful behaviour Australia... Its as if Little Johnny cvnt is still running the place Why so strongly against it? It will need to be monitored to make sure it isn't taken advantage of but It's not an outrageous decision.
Zingari Posted 5 July 2011 Posted 5 July 2011 Islamic leaders in the state said they were comfortable with the new measure.However, civil liberty groups expressed concern I think this is an interesting point in the article
ozleicester Posted 5 July 2011 Posted 5 July 2011 Why so strongly against it? It will need to be monitored to make sure it isn't taken advantage of but It's not an outrageous decision. I am confident we already have the laws to compel people to identify themselves, this is yet another erosion of basic civil liberties. I have no doubt there will be commments of "if theyve done nothing wrong.... .. nothing to fear" etc. This law isnt neccessary, corrrect management by police etc will give them all the power they need. ROO's comment about the "huge number" of Burka related crimes (im only aware of one or two actual "burka related" crimes). goes someway to showing my stong opposition. Decisions like this are yet again focussed mostly at the Muslim (or at least non christian) population. BTW im neither Muslim..or in anyway related.. I just see this as unjust and a reduction of civil liberties.
ozleicester Posted 5 July 2011 Posted 5 July 2011 i don't see the civil liberties connection Really? The right to wear what you choose, when you choose, how you choose?
Zingari Posted 5 July 2011 Posted 5 July 2011 Really? The right to wear what you choose, when you choose, how you choose? i agree to a point , but i don't think any of us have that right completely do we ? we all face restrictions to a certain degree when it comes to decency , security etc etc
Trav Le Bleu Posted 5 July 2011 Posted 5 July 2011 Really? The right to wear what you choose, when you choose, how you choose? Yes, and civil liberty groups are going to force that on people!
ozleicester Posted 5 July 2011 Posted 5 July 2011 i agree to a point , but i don't think any of us have that right completely do we ? we all face restrictions to a certain degree when it comes to decency , security etc etc Very true... and all of those restrictions are perfectly adequate to control Burka wearers... so, why do we need new laws? Every new law is the removal of yet another freedom.
Zingari Posted 5 July 2011 Posted 5 July 2011 Very true... and all of those restrictions are perfectly adequate to control Burka wearers... so, why do we need new laws? Every new law is the removal of yet another freedom. i'm not sure it is a new law , it seems more of a clarification of the old one , but i'm no legal expert
ozleicester Posted 5 July 2011 Posted 5 July 2011 i'm not sure it is a new law , it seems more of a clarification of the old one , but i'm no legal expert Again you may well be correct, however..... "Police in Australia's New South Wales state have been given more powers to remove burkas and other face coverings to identify crime suspects." Any increase in the states powers, is equalled in the loss of the publics freedoms
Zingari Posted 5 July 2011 Posted 5 July 2011 Again you may well be correct, however..... "Police in Australia's New South Wales state have been given more powers to remove burkas and other face coverings to identify crime suspects." Any increase in the states powers, is equalled in the loss of the publics freedoms i do agree with you on that , but surely there needs to be clarity on the need for everyone to be identifiable , and not make any exceptions because of some religious belief . I think the new "powers" are just reinforcing the point , along with the added fines and imprisonment for those that don't allow themselves to be identified . It's the same for everyone, if we are talking about hoodies , ski masks balaclavas or burkhas . You may not like it if they ( muslims) seem to be being specifically targeted , but I don't particularly like it when any religion is given special status in the eyes of the law .
SOCCERROO FOX Posted 6 July 2011 Posted 6 July 2011 I am confident we already have the laws to compel people to identify themselves, this is yet another erosion of basic civil liberties. I have no doubt there will be commments of "if theyve done nothing wrong.... .. nothing to fear" etc. This law isnt neccessary, corrrect management by police etc will give them all the power they need. ROO's comment about the "huge number" of Burka related crimes (im only aware of one or two actual "burka related" crimes). goes someway to showing my stong opposition. Decisions like this are yet again focussed mostly at the Muslim (or at least non christian) population. BTW im neither Muslim..or in anyway related.. I just see this as unjust and a reduction of civil liberties. There has been plenty in the last 18-24 months reported cases of robberies and assaults from people wearing veils and burkas. A quick google search or search of any of the main Aus newspapers will prove this. There was a bag snatch at a train station just last week from some one wearing a burka or similar. Also OZ you do realize the police wont just walk up and rip of someones burka it will be done discritely and by the apporiate female police officer. My dad was in the Australian Federal Police and i have many police officer friends and family that are police officers in Victoria. They are hopeful Victoria get this law as it is currently a grey area there isn't curently any law or ruling that allows them to force a person to remove there burka or veils to be identified.
ozleicester Posted 6 July 2011 Posted 6 July 2011 There has been plenty in the last 18-24 months reported cases of robberies and assaults from people wearing veils and burkas. A quick google search or search of any of the main Aus newspapers will prove this. There was a bag snatch at a train station just last week from some one wearing a burka or similar. Also OZ you do realize the police wont just walk up and rip of someones burka it will be done discritely and by the apporiate female police officer. My dad was in the Australian Federal Police and i have many police officer friends and family that are police officers in Victoria. They are hopeful Victoria get this law as it is currently a grey area there isn't curently any law or ruling that allows them to force a person to remove there burka or veils to be identified. Fair enough... As i understand it, this is not the case...however, i am not fully informed and i can only hope that the law also guarantees it is done with respect.
SOCCERROO FOX Posted 6 July 2011 Posted 6 July 2011 Fair enough... As i understand it, this is not the case...however, i am not fully informed and i can only hope that the law also guarantees it is done with respect. You're correct i didn't word it correctly they can do it but it's not as it stands ethical to do so. (if that's the right word) It's all a grey area as it stands as the current law was made many years ago when burka's were very rare in Aus. All this law is basically doing from my understanding (I'm no expert) is making the law more cut and dry. It reads that it is giving the police more power but all it is reall doing is making things clearer to avoid law suits etc (Formally known as protecting there own arse). It is also has a clearly outlined procedure that accompanies it. I see your point that it does seem to come off as a bit of a knee jerk reaction but what you need to remember is Australia is very much quite sheltered and with the influx of more immigrants the need to adapt and changes laws is required to not get caught out.
The Year Of The Fox Posted 6 July 2011 Posted 6 July 2011 Once again we're behind Australia and France. This country is embarassing at times
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