Salieri Posted 10 September 2011 Posted 10 September 2011 So was Liverpool's coaching system at fault for 's poor form? Prior to joining Liverpool Konchesky has enjoyed a very good career. It didn't work out for him there but at his other clubs he has been a regular and consistently good performer.
Bugg Posted 10 September 2011 Posted 10 September 2011 I'm not the manager with a scouting system and professional support - it's their job to assemble a team to challenge for promotion. Is Cunningham from Manchester City fit again? The same Cunningham that a lot of members on this forum were saying was shit because he couldn't defend. Not trying to be funny, but once he broke his leg people have been making out like he's some sort of World Class left back even though they were the same being critical of him before.
Corky Posted 10 September 2011 Posted 10 September 2011 Yep, I remember Cunningham getting a fair amount of stick because he wasn't Berner.
unreachable Posted 10 September 2011 Posted 10 September 2011 Prior to joining Liverpool Konchesky has enjoyed a very good career. It didn't work out for him there but at his other clubs he has been a regular and consistently good performer. I agree which makes his current form all the more disappointing. Many said he tired at Forest so perhaps a fitness problem. I'm spending far too much mental effort thinking about LCFC! So I think I'll concentrate on Andy Murray for the rest of the night and look forward to our next match and hope for an impeccable display by all concerned.
funkyrobot Posted 10 September 2011 Author Posted 10 September 2011 Again, I would assume (as I stated in another thread) that the bulk of fans were very happy to learn that we were getting full backs at the club such as peltier, konchesky and pantsil. Now, a few weeks in and this excitement seems all forgotten in favour of questioning these signings. The full backs aren't the problem.. It's how they are being used that is And that's down to the manager and defensive coach. The signings are still good ones, now the test of Sven and Fazzer is to get them showing what they can do Spending money's been the easy bit...... I wasn't that fussed with the signing of either konch or pants. The latter never really impressed much at fulham, I remember him mainly for the number of own goals he racked up.
Guest Col city fan Posted 10 September 2011 Posted 10 September 2011 I wasn't that fussed with the signing of either konch or pants. The latter never really impressed much at fulham, I remember him mainly for the number of own goals he racked up. You might not have been.. The bulk of fans appeared happy with them, or so they said....
Number 6 Posted 10 September 2011 Posted 10 September 2011 Think this has been the biggest step back this season. That's not to say that we don't have the quality in the position, but we're not using them well. Konch and Pants will get up and provide the odd cross, probably won't beat a couple and score a few like Naughton and V.Aanholt did though. We miss that threat.
Thracian Posted 10 September 2011 Posted 10 September 2011 guessing you haven't seen leicester for a while because i always see Konchesky getting down the wing It's not just about getting down the wing it's about what he accomplishes in doing so. Konchelsky is not a natural attacker. He's a willing attacker at times but that's not the same. At a certain point he becomes reluctant to carry on because he knows he's vulnerable when the space gets tighter and he'll struggle to recover if things go wrong. Furthermore, like Peltier he has no natural partner because there's no way Gallagher is going to cover if the bloke makes consistent overlaps. Even as a defensive full-back Konchelsky hits too many aimless passes. But going forward he really doesn't offer anything dangerous as an end product either by way of committed movement or aggressive crosses. The bloke is another Nils. He's okay but nothing more. And, from what I've seen, certainly not the type of player to greatly influence a title challenge. The positive things i can say are that he's reasonably reliable defensively, he tries to get forward and he's been better than Peltier thus far.
Thracian Posted 10 September 2011 Posted 10 September 2011 You might not have been.. The bulk of fans appeared happy with them, or so they said.... Most fans seem excited or supportive of any new signings, even Kaebi, Laczko and Kirkland. It's the "new toy" effect.
The Doctor Posted 11 September 2011 Posted 11 September 2011 Most fans seem excited or supportive of any new signings, even Kaebi, Laczko and Kirkland. It's the "new toy" effect. To take one of those examples, all any of us had seen of Kaebi was a couple of world cup games in which he looked fairly good given the quality of the team he was in. Granted he turned out absolute bobbins but when all you have to go on is some games on the biggest stage in football and perform reasonably well in those matches it's understandable why people would be, in the main, pleased with the signing at the time. I see no reason why, if the players seem to be of good enough quality, the fans shouldn't be excited by a new signing. If we're signing someone who has consistently proven themselves to be of insufficient quality for the division then perhaps the supporters may be somewhat apprehensive of the new addition but I can see why people would still be supportive of the signing in the hope they'd come good rather than immediately writing the player off.
SeattleShane Posted 11 September 2011 Posted 11 September 2011 Why don't you just 'support' another team? Cos every post i've read from you tonight (and previously) has just been moan whine moan bitch whine. There's constructive criticism and then there's the drivel that you continuously spout. And that's not just aimed at you, it's aimed at the other countless muppets who seem to thrive on negativity. It's funny that when we win certain posters make the odd grudgingly positive comment yet when we don't fare so well they're all over these boards like a ****ing rash. You cant support another team.......The team picks you !!!!!!!!
hornyhollthefox123 Posted 11 September 2011 Posted 11 September 2011 As has been mentioned, there's only so much a full back can do when you have players like gallagher, danns, fernandes (in this diamomnd) who aren't natural wingers and won't overlap. Pantsil's passing isn't great but I think people now realise what a player Naughton was. Fulham have had a very solid home record over the last 2/3 years with konchesky (hence his move to liverpool) and pantsil being important mainstays in that side. They're both solid full backs, more than capable at this level and while they may not attack like PVA and naughton there's only so much more naturally defensive full backs can do, especially in a 4 4 2 diamond.
funkyrobot Posted 11 September 2011 Author Posted 11 September 2011 As has been mentioned, there's only so much a full back can do when you have players like gallagher, danns, fernandes (in this diamomnd) who aren't natural wingers and won't overlap. Pantsil's passing isn't great but I think people now realise what a player Naughton was. Fulham have had a very solid home record over the last 2/3 years with konchesky (hence his move to liverpool) and pantsil being important mainstays in that side. They're both solid full backs, more than capable at this level and while they may not attack like PVA and naughton there's only so much more naturally defensive full backs can do, especially in a 4 4 2 diamond. The only reason konch got a move to Liverpool was because hodgson moved there as manager, otherwise he wouldn't have got such a high profile move. As u say, both fullbacks are naturally defensive, which i consider to be a backward step from last season.
marbelladave Posted 11 September 2011 Posted 11 September 2011 Come on, get real...... The players are fine, not great but good enough for a Championship side looking for promotion. Its how they are being set up and used that is the issue, our setup and shape is so obviously wrong that even experienced (premier league in some cases) players simply do not know what they are doing. This is a coaching issue and the remedy is simple, get it done Top!
Babylon Posted 11 September 2011 Posted 11 September 2011 This is a coaching issue and the remedy is simple, get it done Top! And if the person coming in doesn't turn it around in 12 games then what? Wait until the transfer window, let them buy a whole new team again and sack them after 6 games if it's still not working? We went through this process under Milan and look where it ended up. Where do you stop, draw the line and say you know what we're going to give this guy a couple of years to try and build something no matter what (presuming relegation form isn't in the equation). The only people who know how long they can afford to give it is the owners.
marbelladave Posted 11 September 2011 Posted 11 September 2011 And if the person coming in doesn't turn it around in 12 games then what? Wait until the transfer window, let them buy a whole new team again and sack them after 6 games if it's still not working? We went through this process under Milan and look where it ended up. Where do you stop, draw the line and say you know what we're going to give this guy a couple of years to try and build something no matter what (presuming relegation form isn't in the equation). The only people who know how long they can afford to give it is the owners. The wrong end of the stick as usual.... I'm talking about a coach, not a manager, a first team coach that looks after the nuts and bolts of our setup and organisation and largely takes charge of tactics and other matchday matters. He must assist Sven in all football matters, so Sven takes on the the 'big picture' role, a sort of 'football general manager', looking after all aspects of of the football side of the club and a 'hands on' first team coach to work with the players we do have. Evolution not revolution....
Babylon Posted 11 September 2011 Posted 11 September 2011 The wrong end of the stick as usual.... Perhaps if it's happening with your intellectually superior posts so often, you should maybe make yourself a bit clearer. Starting with saying what you actually mean?
marbelladave Posted 11 September 2011 Posted 11 September 2011 Perhaps if it's happening with your intellectually superior posts so often, you should maybe make yourself a bit clearer. Starting with saying what you actually mean? Sorry. Really did not think I had to spell it out again, after all I've only been saying it for the last four or five months! So once again - Sven is a 'big picture' manager, who sets the tone and gets the whole of the footballing side of the club working to get us promoted. He needs a 'hands on', first team coach to deal with the 'nuts and bolts' of our tactics and organisation. Clear enough for you?
southdevonfox Posted 11 September 2011 Posted 11 September 2011 Sorry. Really did not think I had to spell it out again, after all I've only been saying it for the last four or five months! So once again - Sven is a 'big picture' manager, who sets the tone and gets the whole of the footballing side of the club working to get us promoted. He needs a 'hands on', first team coach to deal with the 'nuts and bolts' of our tactics and organisation. Clear enough for you? nope
Babylon Posted 11 September 2011 Posted 11 September 2011 Clear enough for you? Yes thanks, says a bit more than "get it done top". Not everybody reads every post you make, maybe you should keep that in mind before getting your knickers in a twist. Some people actually try to avoid them as much as possible.
funkyrobot Posted 11 September 2011 Author Posted 11 September 2011 ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK!! Not with pantsil and Konchesky sadly..
okie fox Posted 11 September 2011 Posted 11 September 2011 Sorry. Really did not think I had to spell it out again, after all I've only been saying it for the last four or five months! So once again - Sven is a 'big picture' manager, who sets the tone and gets the whole of the footballing side of the club working to get us promoted. He needs a 'hands on', first team coach to deal with the 'nuts and bolts' of our tactics and organisation. Clear enough for you? No. We have a first team/goalkeeping coach, Mike Stowell, and an assistant manager, Derek Fazackerley, to deal with nuts and bolts.
marbelladave Posted 12 September 2011 Posted 12 September 2011 nope Que? Yes thanks, says a bit more than "get it done top". Not everybody reads every post you make, maybe you should keep that in mind before getting your knickers in a twist. Some people actually try to avoid them as much as possible. I go to the game, I write what I see, I give my opinion. My views have been consistent on the coaching/management issue since it became plain that our game was not disciplined enough to be genuine promotion candidates sometime back in march or april. My views have not changed, neither is my underware in disarray. If I am arrogant enough to assume that my views are well known on this forum, by the 'regulars' at least, then I offer my apologies. No. We have a first team/goalkeeping coach, Mike Stowell, and an assistant manager, Derek Fazackerley, to deal with nuts and bolts. I am aware of our coaching set up, and after watching every league game this season I am equally aware of just how ineffective that is. I have been told that I am not expressing my views clearly, so here goes - Stowell is a goalkeeping coach who has turned Weale from a very decent championship keeper into a nervous wreck in less than 2 years. His reward has been to be promoted to first team coach. Fazackerly is a fitness coach, promoted, like Dilbert, way above his capabilities.
okie fox Posted 12 September 2011 Posted 12 September 2011 I am aware of our coaching set up, and after watching every league game this season I am equally aware of just how ineffective that is. I have been told that I am not expressing my views clearly, so here goes - Stowell is a goalkeeping coach who has turned Weale from a very decent championship keeper into a nervous wreck in less than 2 years. His reward has been to be promoted to first team coach. Fazackerly is a fitness coach, promoted, like Dilbert, way above his capabilities. Yes, but these are Sven's appointees. If 'Top gets it done', i.e. replaces them, then Sven will feel that his position at the club is undermined and he may decide to resign.
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