The Ultimate Moonwalk Hoax Thread

[BoneDog]

Obviously, that it has taken until now to "reveal" the hoax is due to a sinister cover up, rather than there being no hoax.

It hasn't taken until now. People have been questioning it since before it allegedly even happened. And at the time of the alleged Moon landings, one in three Americans had their doubts.

Whilst it would probably be more exciting if they had faked the moon landings, I must conclude that the conspiracy theories are baseless horseshit, clung to by those who would see an evil USA based conspiracy behing every major event over the last 50 years (it is never the Norwegians plotting, it's always the Yanks, eh?)...

Pfffffffff

I don't see it as an evil US based conspiracy. US strength has been used by one shady group or another to destroy massive amounts of life in Asia, Africa, South and Central America, Europe and the Middle East (I'm probably forgetting somewhere), so yes I will say that those 'missions' were evil conspiracies but I don't blame the American people for that. A tiny group of powerful individuals from many countries and many decades are responsible, and the US might has been used to achieve their goals on many occasions, so the finger is bound to be pointed the USA's way by some.

But I know for a fact that the majority of American people wanted and want no part of these illegal endeavours.

If I ever say 'the US' I am talking about scum at the very top, including the Nobel Peace Prize man, and not the citizens, but I also look on many other world faces in exactly the same way.

[Rincewind]

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/05/apollo-17-3d-maps/

Don't know which side this is on. For or against.

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/05/apollo-17-3d-maps/

[Jordan]

Not this shit again.

[Finnegan]

[I am Rod Hull]

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Qi, 100% facts, 100% all of the time .

[stourbridgefox]

If you eat a banana a day for a year then you would absorb 352 millisherberts of radiation.

Not a big deal really.

[stourbridgefox]

Just checked it out and actually it is closer to 35.2 millisherberts of radiation if you go by the banana equivalent dose (BED) scale.

[Jimothy]

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David Mitchell

"We are in trouble as a species if people refuse to believe in things they couldn't actually do themselves."

Hit the nail on the head.

[Fox in the North]

This thread is really something hahaha. Mind blown at everything that's been discussed, but with everything taken to account I would never question a man like Stephen Fry x)

[Rincewind]

What I find hard to believe is that there are five votes for no. Now that must be a conspiracy.

http://www.space.com/15334-moon-master-easy-quiz-lunatics.html

[BoneDog]

I've not read all of the posts yet but I notice (on poll results) that quite a few folk are still living in cloud cuckoo land, and have not read the series I linked to!

Well done to the other five clever clogs who recognize the truth

I'm now going to attempt to reply to any waffle - no offence, I'm just over-exaggeraticizing.

[BoneDog]

Indeed, "Sort of floating", but based on mathematical calculations, the application of Newton's laws and the knowledge that the escape velocity decreases as the altitude increases, having the benefit of the hard work and input of thousands of workers in the space programme over a number of years, verified by pretty much the entire scientific community.

I read the whole fourteen part series again the other day to try and understand the points made a bit more and found the following regarding the journey to the Moon. Apparently the scientists involved at NASA are now saying that, aswell as it now taking us more than twice as long in the 21st century, than it did in the 1960's to work on and plan a Moon mission, it is also going to take our new spaceships (that will not even be landing on the Moon, which is interesting) more than twice as long to get to the Moon.

Lockheed have made reference to a “slow but efficient trajectory”, when we next plan to send men to the Moon. This is planned for 2030 or thereabouts I think, which will be nearly six decades after last allegedly being attempted.

The following quotes are snippets from Parts 13 & 14 of the series.

"...Before signing off, there is one final point that needs to be addressed here – one that has been on my mind since first undertaking this series. It is generally claimed, as previously noted, that getting to the Moon from low-Earth orbit is a relatively straightforward procedure: you simply accelerate enough to ‘slingshot’ out of low-Earth orbit, thus escaping Earth’s gravitational pull, and then just sort of freefall to the Moon, firing the engines every now and then to make minor course corrections.

That all sounds just fine in theory … until you take a step back and realize that the Moon itself is a satellite of the Earth, held in place by – you guessed it! – Earth’s gravitational attraction. Isn’t that, after all, what keeps it from drifting randomly about the solar system, whoring itself out to any planet that would have it? So I guess the obvious question that is begged here is: when exactly is it, while traveling from the Earth to the Moon, that one leaves Earth’s orbit?

The answer, quite obviously, is, uhmm, never. Earth’s gravitational pull would obviously get progressively weaker the farther out one ventured, but common sense dictates that it wouldn’t just abruptly end once you got beyond low-Earth orbit. Indeed, an article that appeared in various newspapers not long ago noted that the satellites that enable GPS devices to work orbit the Earth at an altitude of roughly 12,000 miles, about 11,800 miles beyond low-Earth orbit. And yet they are, miraculously enough, still held in place by Earth’s gravity and there have been no reported cases of one of them suddenly freefalling to the Moon.

There would come a time during a journey to the Moon when that body’s own gravitational attraction would be stronger than that of Earth, but given the relative masses of the two bodies, that time wouldn’t come until the tail end of the trip. You could conceivably freefall most of the way back, but you would first, of course, have to actually get there.

I guess what I am trying to say here is that I’m not really buying into the claim that you wouldn’t need much fuel to get to the Moon after reaching low-Earth orbit. Logic would seem to dictate that the path to the Moon would not be the largely linear one we have been sold on, but rather a series of steadily increasing circles (probably ellipses, actually), requiring the expenditure of considerable amounts of fuel.

Perhaps that is the reason why the Space Shuttle has never done a lunar fly-by, or left low-Earth orbit for any other reason. Of course, there are also the problems posed by space radiation, and extreme temperatures, and micrometeorites, and reentry, and …"

http://davesweb.cnchost.com/Apollo13.html

".....Before proceeding, I should probably first clarify here that the proposed missions are not so ambitious as to involve actually landing on the Moon. No, these proposed missions involve merely flying to the Moon’s far side and then sort of hanging out in Lunar orbit for a couple of weeks. In other words, all of the most technologically demanding aspects of the alleged Apollo missions – like actually landing on the Moon, surviving on the Moon, lifting off from the Moon, and docking while in Lunar orbit – have been eliminated....

Say what?! Are you kidding me? What kind of girly-men are these new breed of astronauts? Stepping stones? Supplemental launches before “risking the crew”? Can’t we just find some real men like John Glenn and Alan Shepard to pilot the Orion craft? And what is this nonsense about a “slow but efficient trajectory to the moon”? “Efficient” in what way? Last time I checked, the ‘debunkers’ were still claiming that getting to the Moon was pretty much a matter of just free-falling your way there. What could be more efficient than that?

Oh wait … I remember now. As I pointed out in the last Apollo post, getting to the Moon does not actually involve free-falling. It involves battling the Earth’s gravity by flying in ever-increasing ellipses. And burning lots and lots of fuel. And Lockheed’s oblique reference to a “slow but efficient trajectory” is, in fact, a confirmation of that. And so, by the way, is this artist’s conception of the proposed Orion missions, which shows the spacecraft outside of low-Earth orbit and yet clearly still burning its engines......."

http://davesweb.cnchost.com/Apollo14.html

[BoneDog]

David Mitchell

"We are in trouble as a species if people refuse to believe in things they couldn't actually do themselves."

Hit the nail on the head.

He didn't hit oat on the head that time! I couldn't create, or launch, a space station or a Hubble telescope, but I don't refuse to believe in those being real and marvelous accomplishments, so I'm afraid that I don't follow his idea there.

If he'd said, "We are in trouble as a species if people blindly believe any old fanciful tale they are told, without knowing bugger all about it", or, "We are in trouble as a species if people refuse to ask glaringly obvious questions..." etc. then I might have agreed with him!

This thread is really something hahaha. Mind blown at everything that's been discussed, but with everything taken to account I would never question a man like Stephen Fry x)

Don't forget that Stephen is a celebrity with quite a high status. If anybody in that profession starts talking about this kind of stuff they will be shunned and end up as losers in a financial and social way. I don't think that many celebrities would risk it even if they knew what's poppin.

And they're also most likely in one of the secret cults that push these lies. They have masters.

So, in conclusion, I wouldn't put much trust in them on major issues that could upset power.

That said, I'm not knocking the show or Mr Fry, I like the folk they have on and it always makes me laugh when I get to watch.

[BoneDog]

If you eat a banana a day for a year then you would absorb 352 millisherberts of radiation.

Not a big deal really.

Yes you're right, that is not a big deal!

However, the radiation in space that the earths atmosphere protects us from is a much bigger deal that modern science can't deal with. The guys at NASA admit they have problems with the issue of protecting astronauts outside of low-Earth orbit. Which is funny really, being as the seamstresses at the Playtex bra factory in the 1960's could bang those spacesuits out quite often, and also as the lunar module pictured on page 1 of the thread worked fine...allegedly.

From Part 13 (linked above) again I think : '.... Moving on, I happened to stumble upon a couple of fascinating articles on Space dot com – and by “fascinating”, I mean that they unintentionally raise questions about the legitimacy of the Apollo missions, as so frequently happens whenever NASA types talk about going ‘back’ to the Moon.

In one of the articles, we find Michael Wargo, identified as the “chief lunar scientist for Exploration Systems at NASA Headquarters”, contemplating a return trip to the Moon: “’None of our spacesuits that we currently have would be appropriate for that extreme an environment,’ [says Wargo]. Any materials built for Earth-like temperatures won’t work on the moon. ‘They don’t bend anymore, they fracture, and they fracture brittle-y, and so everything gets extremely brittle at those temperatures.’” (“Water Discovery Fuels Hope to Colonize the Moon,” November 13, 2009)

'......The other article from Space dot com details yet more of the lost technology of the 1960s: “Though engineers are well on their way to preparing us for life on the moon, some major issues have yet to be resolved. ‘Something that we’ll have to consider is radiation,’ Zacny (with Honeybee Robotics, a NASA contractor) said. ‘We can close ourselves in habitats, but radiation protection requires a lot of shielding. We cannot solve this problem yet. Radiation can kill us...'

[BoneDog]

Whilst we're on the subject of radiation, I think that this next snippet from Part 14 - http://davesweb.cnchost.com/Apollo14.html - is one of the most astounding pieces of information about the mindset of the good guys running the space industry. Unbelievable. Operation Fishbowl :

'.....Let us briefly return now to Operation Fishbowl, which was also discussed in the last Apollo offering. Unbeknownst to me until very recently, NPR decided to dredge up the nearly fifty-year-old high-altitude nuke tests less than two weeks before I did (Robert Krulwich “A Very Scary Light Show: Exploding H-Bombs In Space,” July 1, 2010). And the facts they brought to the table were rather compelling.

“If you are wondering why anybody would deliberately detonate an H-bomb in space, the answer comes from a conversation we had with science historian James Fleming of Colby College.” According to Fleming, who has been busily reading through James Van Allen’s papers while working on a biography, “a good entry point to the story is May 8, 1958, when James Van Allen, the space scientist, stands in front of the National Academy in Washington, D.C., and announces that they’ve just discovered something new about the planet.”

What Van Allen’s team had discovered, of course, was that Earth is ringed by belts of high-energy particles, now known as the Van Allen radiation belts. And what Fleming’s recent research revealed, incredibly enough, is that, "the day after the press conference, Van Allen agreed with the military to get involved with a project to set off atomic bombs in the magnetosphere to see if they could disrupt it.”

Let’s pause here for a moment to reflect on the almost unfathomable level of megalomania at play here: immediately upon learning of the existence of the radiation belts, the military/intelligence complex decided, without even giving it much thought, that it would be a great idea to attack said belts with atomic weapons! And the ‘scientist’ who had made the discovery immediately agreed that that was a swell idea! As Fleming noted, “this is the first occasion I’ve ever discovered where someone discovered something and immediately decided to blow it up.”

Never mind that the belts are there to shield the planet from incoming space radiation, and that their existence is one of the primary reasons that biological lifeforms can thrive on this sphere … let’s just see if we can blow a big ****ing hole in them! It apparently never occurred to the geniuses in Washington that if you blow a hole in the belts to, say, allow for the safe passage of spacecraft, you would also presumably allow for the unsafe passage of massive amounts of incoming, and very lethal, radiation.

This, dear readers, says a lot about the true nature of the men who rule behind the curtain. What hubris is required to put at risk every living creature on this planet, and do so without even giving it a second thought, for the dubious purpose of facilitating space missions that were never going to actually take place?

The first such tests were conducted in 1958, almost immediately after the discovery of the radiation bands. But those tests used just lowly ol’ atom bombs, and according to NPR, “Atom bombs had little effect on the magnetosphere.” Which is why in 1962, the powers-that-be decided to up the ante by using hydrogen bombs … really, really big hydrogen bombs. How big? Starfish Prime, the most ‘successful’ of the ‘tests,’ was tipped with a warhead 100 times as powerful as the bomb that leveled Hiroshima......'

STARFISH PRIME......F*&K YEAH......LET'S BLOW THIS BITCH UP!!

Think!! Consequences! No wonder they need to build massive lakes and cities miles under the mountains. They obviously know they'll need them one day.

[stourbridgefox]

Hoax accusations

Astronaut Buzz Aldrin, lunar module pilot of the first lunar landing mission, poses for a photograph beside the deployed United States flag during an Apollo 11 Extravehicular Activity (EVA) on the lunar surface.

Main article: Moon landing conspiracy theories

Some people insist that the Apollo Moon landings were a hoax. Their accusations flourish in part because enthusiastic predictions that Moon landings would become commonplace have not yet come to pass.^{[citation needed]} However, empirical evidence is readily available to show that manned moon landings did indeed occur. Anyone on Earth with an appropriate laser and telescope system can bounce laser beams off three retroreflector arrays left on the Moon by Apollo 11,^[47] 14 and 15, verifying deployment of the Lunar Laser Ranging Experiment at historically documented Apollo Moon landing sites and so proving equipment constructed on Earth was successfully transported to the surface of the Moon. In addition, in August 2009 NASA's Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter began to send back high resolution photos of the Apollo landing sites. These photos show not only the large Descent Stages of the lunar landers left behind but also tracks of the astronauts' walking paths in the lunar dust.^[48]

Get your lasers out tonight and find out for yourselves!!

[BoneDog]

Hoax accusations

Astronaut Buzz Aldrin, lunar module pilot of the first lunar landing mission, poses for a photograph beside the deployed United States flag during an Apollo 11 Extravehicular Activity (EVA) on the lunar surface.

Main article: Moon landing conspiracy theories

Some people insist that the Apollo Moon landings were a hoax. Their accusations flourish in part because enthusiastic predictions that Moon landings would become commonplace have not yet come to pass.^{[citation needed]} However, empirical evidence is readily available to show that manned moon landings did indeed occur. Anyone on Earth with an appropriate laser and telescope system can bounce laser beams off three retroreflector arrays left on the Moon by Apollo 11,^[47] 14 and 15, verifying deployment of the Lunar Laser Ranging Experiment at historically documented Apollo Moon landing sites and so proving equipment constructed on Earth was successfully transported to the surface of the Moon. In addition, in August 2009 NASA's Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter began to send back high resolution photos of the Apollo landing sites. These photos show not only the large Descent Stages of the lunar landers left behind but also tracks of the astronauts' walking paths in the lunar dust.^[48]

Get your lasers out tonight and find out for yourselves!!

I'd ignore those laser claims. Plus the flag baloney. Real questioners of the hoax don't even bother with that stuff, as Dave points out in his series.

Regarding the lasers (unfortunately I don't have "an appropriate laser and telescope system"), even if the reflectors are there, some believe that the Russians left them there in 1959. Unmanned mission planted them - if they exist. Did you know that when the Americans allegedly landed on the Moon, that there was a Russian vehicle already there roaming the surface? It had already been there for a couple of months or more before the Americans 'arrived'.

Plus there's the fact that scientists at MIT, and in Russia, had been bouncing lasers off the Moon's surface for about six years prior to the first Apollo 'landing', so the fact that we can do it now means not a lot.

As for the high-res pictures of the landing sites, I've seen them (unless there are new ones) and they show absolutely nothing! There was a big buzz around the world when people were waiting for the results, but the results were a big disappointment. I feel for all the astronomers and scientists who were waiting for those results. They were promised awesome proof and got nothing.

The series goes into all of these issues and is well worth a read, especially if you are a debunker, as surely you could write something to disprove the series. NASA's best have tried and failed, and every time NASA talk of 'returning' to the Moon, they drop their foots in it even more, as the series shows.

The series also explains the poor 'debunking' efforts of badastronomy dot com, space dot com etc. that people still, for some reason, link to as proof of the Moonwalk.

[Rincewind]

Why would the Russians build and send up American space rockets?

[BoneDog]

Why would the Russians build and send up American space rockets?

I don't think they did that. The Russians had already sent an unmanned mission to the Moon that landed in 1959, so some people say that if there is a reflector (for the lasers) on the Moon, that the Russian mission left it there.

The Russians had a vehicle roaming the surface of the Moon before the Americans allegedly arrived.....and then....out of nowhere....somehow.....with a rubbish space program, the Americans had miraculously fathomed moonships and spacesuits that they still can't replicate with todays technology! The Playtex bra factory made the magic spacesuits that todays greatest scientists can't replicate!

You canna make it up Ken!

Edit : It was one of the Luna missions that the Russians allegedly had a vehicle on the Moon as the result of... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_2 (I can't remember which one)

[Kitchandro]

Moonwalking is not a hoax. My cousin can do it.

[Rincewind]

I suppose it would be hard to tell the difference between a Rissian and an American.

[BoneDog]

I'm hoping that a few will have something to say about Operation Fishbowl, STARFISH PRIME and the preceding "let's blow up the Van Allen belt with nukes" explosions, and attempts at explosions (that went wrong and blew up closer to earth).

STARFISH PRIME was 100 times more powerful than the Hiroshima bomb. Awesome....thanks for that NASA....great idea....I'm sure that those massive nukes you sent and blew up above our heads to try and "disrupt the Van Allen belts" has done us the world of good. The earth and it's inhabitants must be reaping the rewards of those 'experiments' by now.

I would love to know the answer to why they decided to do that. The real answer.

[Rincewind]

Well it probanly took a few attempts before the inverter of the wheel found out they needed to be round.

[ozleicester]

[Zingari]

The Van Allen Radiation Belts

 

AFP      Aug.30, 2012

 

NASA launched two satellites into space on Thursday to explore the belts of radioactive particles orbiting the Earth, in a mission that is the first of its kind.

 

The twin spacecraft will spend the next two years exploring the so-called Van Allen belt that is filled with highly-charged particles and at times poses a danger to communications, GPS satellites and even human spaceflight.

 

“Scientists will learn in unprecedented detail how the radiation belts are populated with charged particles, what causes them to change and how these processes affect the upper reaches of the atmosphere around Earth,†said John Grunsfeld, associate administrator for NASA’s Science Mission Directorate.

 

“The information collected from these probes will benefit the public by allowing us to better protect our satellites and understand how space weather affects communications and technology on Earth.â€

 

The satellites — buttressed with protective plating — blasted into orbit from Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida aboard an Atlas V 401 rocket.

 

NASA’s latest mission comes just weeks after the space agency landed its $2.5 billion Mars Science Laboratory and Curiosity rover on the surface of the Red Planet, breaking new ground in US-led exploration of an alien world.

 

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=78985&src=iotdrss

 

They were the subject of perhaps the first scientific discovery of the Space Age, and yet we still don't know much about them. The radiation belts that surround Earth are home to killer electrons, plasma waves, and intense electrical currents that can disrupt and destroy the electronics on satellites. But the behavior of the Van Allen Belts—named for James Van Allen, who led the team that discovered them in 1958—is wildly unpredictable.

This artist's conception shows the radiation belts (green), which are two doughnut-shaped (torus) regions full of high-energy particles that fill the near-space around Earth. The blue and red lines between and around the belts depict the north and south polarity of the planet’s magnetic field. The inner belt, a blend of protons and electrons, can reach down as low as 1,000 kilometers (600 miles) in altitude. The outer belt, comprised mainly of energetic electrons, can swell to as much as 60,000 kilometers (37,000 miles) above Earth’s surface. Both rings extend to roughly 65 degrees north and south latitude.

The radiation belts were discovered during the flight of the very first American satellite. Van Allen and colleagues had installed a Geiger-Müller tube on Explorer 1 to detect cosmic rays, and as the satellite made its eccentric orbit around the Earth, the readings periodically went off the top of the counter’s scale. It happened again during the flight of Explorer 3 several months later. Several followup missions proved that the space around Earth was not empty, but instead enriched with electrons, protons, and energy created by interactions between Earth's magnetic field (or magnetosphere), the solar wind, and (occasionally) cosmic rays arriving from beyond the solar system.

Fifty-four years later, NASA has embarked on a missions designed specifically to understand the space weather in the dynamic and erratic Van Allen Belts. At 4:05 a.m. Eastern Daylight Time on August 30, 2012, the Radiation Belt Storm Probes (RBSP) were launched into orbit on a United Launch Alliance Atlas V rocket that lifted off from Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida. (Watch video of the launch here.) The Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory (APL) built and will operate the twin RBSP spacecraft for NASA’s Living With a Star program.

The identical twin spacecraft will fly in separate orbits across the inner and outer Van Allen radiation belts. The mission is starting near the height of the Sun’s 11-year cycle, or solar maximum. Activity on the sun influences the behavior of the radiation belts, though scientists are puzzled by that behavior. Sometimes a solar storm can swell the belts with particles and energy, creating havoc for Earth-orbiting satellites by accelerating electrons (aka, “killer electronsâ€) and creating electrical currents. Other times, the radiation belts grow very calm and depleted during Sun storms. Occasionally, no change is detected at all.

The RBSP satellites are designed to observe how and when killer electrons are energized, to sample the electrical and magnetic fields in Earth’s space, to count particles, and detect plasma waves of different frequencies. The ultimate goal is to improve the prediction of space weather; that is, how solar activity can cause geomagnetic storms that upset telecommunications and electronics.

 

 

 

 

They didn't cause any problems to communications and  human space flight in the Apollo missions so it's probably a good job they didn't know too much about them