Should he be charged?

[Leicester_Numan]

If any father walked in on their daughter being abused, they'd snap, I know I would. The more reasonable and less violent of us would have stopped after a few good hits and called the police (after a few good kicks in the balls on the way). That would have been seen as a perfectly reasonable thing to do. There is only one known fact in this case though, this guy brutally beat someone to death. He has to be charged and tried. If his story turns out to be true he can be given suspended jail time. He may on the other hand be a complete liar and a violent thug who beat someone to death because he didn't like his face. You can find plenty of d...heads like that in town on a Friday night. It's amazing how many people are condoning murder on here and would just believe his story and let him off without even a trial. Regardless of provocation, brutally beating someone to death is just WRONG and should not go unpunished

[skinnydipper]

Flawed or not if I caught someone sexually abusing my daughter do you really think I would stop to think about your sense of emotional analyses or if you thought it was right or wrong to take instant revenge ? not a fvcking chance. You don't have the right to judge it's not your daughter and you thankfully are not in that situation. So shove your rational and considered judgement until you are in that same situation, then and only then can you pass judgement on others.

You clearly lack the intelligence to understand the point so I don't intend to waste my breath any further in spelling it out for you.

I'll reconsider however if you are willing to pay me copious amounts of money to do so but quite frankly you would be wasting your money as your Neanderthal brain would not be able to cope with the nuances of the rationale.

[Rincewind]

If every juror called up for a child molest/beating case thought if that happened to my child I'd do the same there would be a lot of people in jail that are innocent and a lot of thugs let off violent crimes.

If any husband walked in a room to see his wife being fondled I suspect he would also snap. But would being murdered be a fitting punishment if it was you doing the fondling?

[flowwolf]

You clearly lack the intelligence to understand the point so I don't intend to waste my breath any further in spelling it out for you.

I'll reconsider however if you are willing to pay me copious amounts of money to do so but quite frankly you would be wasting your money as your Neanderthal brain would not be able to cope with the nuances of the rationale.

Is that really the best you can do ? You open yourself to ridicule by going for the bankrupt argument of " i'm clearly more intelligent than you" gambit. Thus proving that you are not. you then go on to try to make light of your asinine post which again falls flat.

If you really want to to have a rational argument with me please do it in a way that does not insult not only my intelligence but everyone else's . All of your rhetoric is a lexicon of other peoples quotes which clearly indicates your naivety or age or worse stupidity. I look forward to your revised and hopefully more reflective reply.

[skinnydipper]

Is that really the best you can do ? You open yourself to ridicule by going for the bankrupt argument of " i'm clearly more intelligent than you" gambit. Thus proving that you are not. you then go on to try to make light of your asinine post which again falls flat.

If you really want to to have a rational argument with me please do it in a way that does not insult not only my intelligence but everyone else's . All of your rhetoric is a lexicon of other peoples quotes which clearly indicates your naivety or age or worse stupidity. I look forward to your revised and hopefully more reflective reply.

Well done Flowwolf.

Must have taken you quite a long time to look up most of the words in that reply but nice to see a more eloquent response than the usual bollocks you come up with.

Did you buy the dictionary and thesaurus as part of a deal?

[marko]

This BBC article adds a few more details

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18522383

[flowwolf]

Well done Flowwolf.

Must have taken you quite a long time to look up most of the words in that reply but nice to see a more eloquent response than the usual bollocks you come up with.

Did you buy the dictionary and thesaurus as part of a deal?

Learn to read it's a lower a case f. It did not take long to dismiss the Juvenile patronising prose that you put forth as evidence of your intellect.

Eloquence had nothing to do with it , it is everyday language to me but it evidently impressed your level of communication.

Take a hint and quit while your behind.

[skinnydipper]

Learn to read it's a lower a case f. It did not take long to dismiss the Juvenile patronising prose that you put forth as evidence of your intellect.

Eloquence had nothing to do with it , it is everyday language to me but it evidently impressed your level of communication.

Take a hint and quit while your behind.

Not so impressed this time though I'm afraid. You probably can't see anything wrong with the first part of your post but even you should recognise that it should be a lower case j in the second sentence (that's the one after the first full stop).

If you're blowing yourself about your communication skills at least ensure that your post is grammatically correct.

At least we now know that spellcheck and a dictionary is no substitute for genuine ability!

[LCFC_FAN_1995]

I think the bloke deserved it for sexually abusing a 4 year old.

[flowwolf]

Not so impressed this time though I'm afraid. You probably can't see anything wrong with the first part of your post but even you should recognise that it should be a lower case j in the second sentence (that's the one after the first full stop).

If you're blowing yourself about your communication skills at least ensure that your post is grammatically correct.

At least we now know that spellcheck and a dictionary is no substitute for genuine ability!

Again is that the best you can do ? is that all you have got ? Don't bother to reply because I will not, You have committed the cardinal sin as far as i'm concerned of becoming boring. You did not take my hint of quitting while behind do it now please to save further embarrassment. :rolleyes:

[Finnegan]

Again is that the best you can do ? is that all you have got ? Don't bother to reply because I will not, You have committed the cardinal sin as far as i'm concerned of becoming boring. You did not take my hint of quitting while behind do it now please to save further embarrassment. :rolleyes:

Christ you're thick.

[skinnydipper]

Again is that the best you can do ? is that all you have got ? Don't bother to reply because I will not, You have committed the cardinal sin as far as i'm concerned of becoming boring. You did not take my hint of quitting while behind do it now please to save further embarrassment. :rolleyes:

You're bleating now wolfie.

[Captain...]

I have a daughter, the most precious thing in the world and if ( i can barely even dare to imagine such a thing) i found her being molested, I imagine i would react and the molesters life would probably brought to an end, or at least he would be permanently maimed...

HOWEVER....

i WOULD EXPECT TO BE CHARGED AND PUNISHED APPROPRIATELY FOR MY ACTIONS.

Having just read this thread, I would agree with you, but the implication is that you would expect to be punished, I don't necessarily agree, there are circumstances that could very well lead to you not being charged. You see a man abusing a child, you lose it push him away end up in scuffle you hit him once, he goes limp you and collect the child a leave, it just so happens your force and fury killed him, that is not murder, that is reasonable force. On the other end of the scale you see what is happening burst in on them he runs off, you chase him down, tackle him to the floor beat him repeatedly and viciously for an hour until you have beaten every last breath out of him. Then you are looking at murder.

It seems that this case is somewhere in between and, based on the evidence we have, he should be charged (although I am not sure what this means exactly in the US), and it should go to trial, and all the evidence be collected then a decision to be made.

Actually there is a right in English law to kill someone without any punishment in certain circumstances. It all comes down to the reasonable force argument and in some cases lethal force is deemed reasonable. Was the force used in the case in discussion reasonable? Can't answer that without all the facts and it's a different country.

This is what I mean by the above, but as you said we can't answer with all the facts, that is why I would expect him to be charged and an investigation to find out all the facts.

This BBC article adds a few more details

http://www.bbc.co.uk...canada-18522383

This article makes it clearer:

As police struggle to locate the family ranch, the father swears and tells the dispatcher: "Come on! This guy is going to die on me! I don't know what to do!"

Emergency crews who responded to the father's 911 call found Flores' trousers and underwear pulled down on his lifeless body.

A medical examination of the girl at hospital backed up the father's story that she had been sexually assaulted, said prosecutors.

The father was not arrested, but was investigated for homicide.

I think the right thing has been done, he clearly was angry when he attacked him, but after the initial fury he was very aware of the fact that the man might die, and didn't want or intend that, and didn't beat him until he was dead, the fact that he was investigated for homicide and but not arrested makes sense, they there are clearly facts we don't know, but it does not sound like some backwater redneck justice where they all sat around drinking a beer with the cops toasting the fact they "got themselves a peado" whilst watching him bleed to death.

My understanding is that you would investigate someone and charge them if you believed you had a good chance of getting a conviction, they investigated him for homicide, they got the daughter checked out and she had signs of molestation consistent with being abused, the only remaining question is "was the force used reasonable?" Which is why it should go to a trial in my opinion, but I can't see a jury deciding that the force wasn't reasonable, and that he didn't act unreasonably in this case, so then it would be a waste of time taking it to court.

[flowwolf]

Christ you're thick.

Is that all you've got as well Mr angrytown :D :D :D :D

[ousefox]

Christ you're thick.

Oh jesus, he's been let out again.

[flowwolf]

Oh jesus, he's been let out again.

I just knew it would not be long before the family Dog started barking. :D :D :D you know every gang has one that's a bit slow.

[Guest]

She lived at ten Rillington place till her old man put her to rest under the floor boards'

So you don't have a daughter , consequently you have no idea of the depth and strength of a fathers love for his daughter but you think it's alright to sit in judgement on some one who does.

You can apply your own morals and sit tut tutting at a situation that has nothing to do with you personally till it comes out of your ears, but in the real world most people have no real faith in the police or court systems , What if he had been caught sexually abusing that little girl and the father had done nothing but call the police ? Just for once it seems real justice was done and it appears the police agreed with it. End of.

What a load of crap.

Go back and read what I wrote, then come back with a sensible response, instead of some indignant BS.

Very well put but unfortunately emotion will always take over in a situation like that. (though I'd hope most men these days wouldnt be daft enough to take off their friends 4 year daughter to a secluded area, take off his shirt and give her a cuddle)

I realise retaliation is wrong in the main but if I walked in on that I would have killed him with my bare hands as well, it would take an incredible person to be able to just walk away call the police and wait after seeing that, in fact I don;t think a single person I have ever known or emt could do, I'd be even less likely to want to the Police and courts to handle it in this day and age where the likelihood is he'd get some pretty daft sentence anyway that could see him out doing the same in a few years.

Is it murder? By Law it probably is, good luck finding a jury who will convict a man on that though.

Good riddance.

I find it sad that men have to think about their actions involving kids, just in case they are misconstrued.

As I wrote, and as Flowolf has conveniently neglected to take into consideration, I would like to think I would do the right thing. Reacting violently isn't about punishing someone, it's retribution. Sentencing in this country has the punishment element (imprisonment, fines), and a rehabilitative part (designed to make the person safe). The whole issue of sentencing is a subject in itself1

We'll never know the exact truth in this case.

Is this the sort of stuff put forward now in courts?

If a defendant says that's what happened, then yes, it would be put to a jury!

I marshalled a Judge who was sitting over a case that involved a middle aged bloke and a 19 year old student. His entire defence was it wasn't him who assaulted her, and that he wasn't there. This was despite clear CCTV footage showing him following her down the street, following her down an alley, and then running out of the alley and being chased by some lads who heard her screams, and ran out to help.

Needless to say, the jury didn't take long in returning a guilty verdict.

[flowwolf]

What a load of crap.

Go back and read what I wrote, then come back with a sensible response, instead of some indignant BS.

I find it sad that men have to think about their actions involving kids, just in case they are misconstrued.

As I wrote, and as Flowolf has conveniently neglected to take into consideration, I would like to think I would do the right thing. Reacting violently isn't about punishing someone, it's retribution. Sentencing in this country has the punishment element (imprisonment, fines), and a rehabilitative part (designed to make the person safe). The whole issue of sentencing is a subject in itself1

We'll never know the exact truth in this case.

If a defendant says that's what happened, then yes, it would be put to a jury!

I marshalled a Judge who was sitting over a case that involved a middle aged bloke and a 19 year old student. His entire defence was it wasn't him who assaulted her, and that he wasn't there. This was despite clear CCTV footage showing him following her down the street, following her down an alley, and then running out of the alley and being chased by some lads who heard her screams, and ran out to help.

Needless to say, the jury didn't take long in returning a guilty verdict.

Silly cow. lol lol