Should he be charged?

[acooling08]

what if...

A 70 year old woman in a wheel chair broke down today when telling of finding her 47 year old son being beaten to death by another man at a party, The woman said through tears that the 47 year old had looked after her for the last 30 years since she was left in a wheel chair by a drink driver. "he was my life and now i have nothing... and the police havent even charged the killer???"

He is a murderer and should be charged and punished appropriately

I really think that most mothers, if they found out their son was molesting 4 year old girls, would be so disgusted as to severe contact with them.

[Rincewind]

If they believed the person that killed him.

[Smudge]

I'm pretty sure he will be charged, the grand jury rarely dismisses a case. Nine people form a quorum and it only takes 9 votes from 12 to have him charged. Depending how much the DA wants to be in the spotlight, will determine whether he's given a reasonable plea bargain.

[1964FOX]

He seems to have said the right things from the limited details we have. He was protecting his daughter and had no intention to kill him. Even in this country under those circumstances he would not be convicted of murder. The people making the final decision will have the full facts and will be able to make a considered decision. If this man carrys on saying the right things he will get away with murder.

His reaction was clearly instinctive considering what he came across, if the offender made no attempt to defend himself from the attack then arguably the force used was excessive but a very tricky one to call either way.

[Rincewind]

Would anyone else have received the same sympathetic reaction if there was a wife or much older Would a much older daughter involved? A man seeing his wife assaulted may instinctively react in the same way.

[Guest]

Even in this country under those circumstances he would not be convicted of murder.

Did he intend to kill, or did he intend to cause GBH? Was he reckless to that happening? Sorry, it's murder, in this country. He can argue manslaughter by means of provocation as an alternative, but at the end of the day, members of the public should not be allowed to act as judge, and jury. Relying on the evidence of someone whose story cannot be denied, contradicted, or proven sets a dangerous precedent. What if this guy had made a mistake? Imagine how you'd feel if you were giving a mate's young daughter a friendly cuddle and it was misconstrued? Do you support the right of your mate giving you a pasting on the basis of a misunderstanding?

Aside from the Huffington Posts political agenda, the fact it is happy to publish unsubstantiated stories really pisses me off. Almost as much as it pisses me off that people are quite happy to read what's reported and treat it as gospel, without questioning it.

[Finnegan]

Did he intend to kill, or did he intend to cause GBH? Was he reckless to that happening? Sorry, it's murder, in this country. He can argue manslaughter by means of provocation as an alternative, but at the end of the day, members of the public should not be allowed to act as judge, and jury. Relying on the evidence of someone whose story cannot be denied, contradicted, or proven sets a dangerous precedent. What if this guy had made a mistake? Imagine how you'd feel if you were giving a mate's young daughter a friendly cuddle and it was misconstrued? Do you support the right of your mate giving you a pasting on the basis of a misunderstanding?

Aside from the Huffington Posts political agenda, the fact it is happy to publish unsubstantiated stories really pisses me off. Almost as much as it pisses me off that people are quite happy to read what's reported and treat it as gospel, without questioning it.

Unsurprisingly more eloquently put than I could have but pretty much exactly what I meant and feel.

[Guest]

Unsurprisingly more eloquently put than I could have but pretty much exactly what I meant and feel.

Thanks. I find myself questioning everything these days

[Finnegan]

Thanks. I find myself questioning everything these days

You're right to do so.

I hope the guy wasn't mistaken, I hope it isn't a lie but we don't actually know otherwise and there doesn't appear to be any witness other than a four year old little girl.

[ADK]

I thought we were to assume the story is correct, otherwise of course he deserves to be convicted

[Smudge]

You're right to do so.

I hope the guy wasn't mistaken, I hope it isn't a lie but we don't actually know otherwise and there doesn't appear to be any witness other than a four year old little girl.

According to this tv report the father was alerted by another child.

[Guest]

I can't view the TV report, but does it mention how old the other child is? What's the relationship of that child to the dead guy?

See, I'm off with the questions again...

ADK, never assume anything.

[Trav Le Bleu]

This.

He has to be charged. I'm not saying he should be sentenced harshly, or at all, but there surely has to be further proceedings?

Especially if there's only his word that his daughter was being attacked? Again, that's not to say that he is lying but if you just blindly accept "justice" like this then, as others have said, there'd be carnage.

Not only was it only his word, his word was that this man was attempting to molest his daughter. Who's not to say the little girl had spilt something on her dress and the man had kindly gone to clean it off, only for the man to walk in seeing him apparently lifting his daughter's dress? Of course we'll never know because this man took the law into his own hands.

He should be investigated at least.

Just seen Nightguard's post actually and pretty much agree with that.

EDIT: And Lisa too. I really should read a whole thread before replying, not even as if it was that many posts, but the indescriminate judgementality of the first few posters got me irked.

[Guest]

One of the most common defences I've seen with a one on one stabbing, with no witnesses, is that "s/he came at me, and I managed to turn it on them/grab the knife and acted in self-defence".

It may be true, but the evidence needs to be tested properly, in front of an independent jury. There would be a lot of unlawful killers on the streets if they were all let go because there was nobody there to challenge their story.

[Jackirius]

Good on him.

[Smudge]

I can't view the TV report, but does it mention how old the other child is? What's the relationship of that child to the dead guy?

See, I'm off with the questions again...

ADK, never assume anything.

Sorry it's working now.

From LA Times

:

Texas dad beats 4-year-old daughter's alleged attacker to dead

By Molly Hennessy-Fiske

June 12, 2012, 9:43 a.m.

HOUSTON -- A central Texas father who told investigators he fatally beat a man he caught molesting his 4-year-old daughter at a horse barn on Saturday has not been charged, authorities said Tuesday.

Lavaca County Dist. Atty. Heather McMinn told the Los Angeles Times that the investigation was pending and that the case was due to be turned over to her office by Lavaca County Sheriff Micah Harmon.

“Upon the completion of the investigation, the case will be presented to my office and a Lavaca County grand jury,” McMinn said.

On Tuesday, an autopsy was completed on the victim by the Travis County Medical Examiner, and preliminary results were turned over to Lavaca County's justice of peace, said Sarah Scott, the medical examimer's chief administrative officer.

Justice of Peace Alene Lyons told The Times that the results would not be released until the 47-year-old man's next of kin could be notified.

Harmon could not be reached by phone Tuesday, but Lyons confirmed much of what the sheriff had already said about the case, including that the 23-year-old father told investigators he beat the man with his hands.

"He did not use a weapon," she said.

On Monday, Harmon told Houston's

KPRC

-TV that the victim, whose name has not been released, was from Gonzales, Texas, and did not have a criminal record.

Harmon told KPRC that the victim was an acquaintance of the girl's father who came to the barn near Shiner, a town about 130 miles west of Houston, on Saturday to help care for some horses.

The adults were shoeing a horse and had sent the 4-year-old and her brother to feed chickens when the attack occurred, a relative told KPRC.

The children's grandfather said the boy returned to alert his father that the little girl had been taken away by a man. The father found the pair partially naked, investigators told KPRC.

"In the course of trying to get her away from him, and protect her, he struck the subject several times in the head and the subject died," Harmon told KPRC. "There doesn't appear to be any reason other than what he told us."

The girl was taken to a hospital to be examined and has since been released, Harmon said.

[Guest]

Thanks, but it still doesn't alter the facts that:

a) the boy, of unspecified age, said the man had taken the girl away;

b) we only have the man's word that he found the victim and his daughter partially naked.

Just because investigators have decided there doesn't appear to be any other explanation, it could mean that they don't have enough proof to confirm either way.

I feel very uncomfortable with situations where there is the possibility of an innocent explanation. I also appreciate things are never black and white. I certainly don't believe anybody has the right to take away another person's life, regardless of the crime committed.

[DB11]

Prove the dead guy was molesting the daughter? He wasn't found guilty; just dead.

[Rincewind]

He was assumed guilty until dead.

[acooling08]

I think it's fair to say from that evidence that the man was attempting to molest the girl.

Why else would he lead her away to somewhere secluded and get her and himself partially naked?

Isn't there some way of obtaining evidence that the man's intentions were sinister? Maybe a blood test to detect a certain chemical or hormone that would show he was sexually aroused at the time of death etc etc?

I actually saw something on Family guy today that was relevant to this, where Joe (the cop) chases a shoplifter only to find he had robbed some food for his starving family. It was along the lines of 'sometimes you have to break or ignore the law, and do what is right'. I think not prosceuting the father in an example of that.

[Smudge]

Thanks, but it still doesn't alter the facts that:

a) the boy, of unspecified age, said the man had taken the girl away;

b) we only have the man's word that he found the victim and his daughter partially naked.

Just because investigators have decided there doesn't appear to be any other explanation, it could mean that they don't have enough proof to confirm either way.

I feel very uncomfortable with situations where there is the possibility of an innocent explanation. I also appreciate things are never black and white. I certainly don't believe anybody has the right to take away another person's life, regardless of the crime committed.

I never said it did change anything, you asked me a question, I gave you further media reports.

The only time to be making any judgements is when all the evidence has been presented in a trial, which I assume is what you are saying.

[Finnegan]

I actually saw something on Family guy today that was relevant to this

lol

[Nick]

I am again in awe at the contributions to this thread.

[Guest]

I think it's fair to say from that evidence that the man was attempting to molest the girl.

Why else would he lead her away to somewhere secluded and get her and himself partially naked?

The evidence? What evidence?

Partially naked could mean he was without his top, you know. How do you know the girl didn't tear her clothes, and the other bloke had given her his top?

There's no info about the other kid. How do you know he didn't concoct some story to get the alleged pervert beaten up?

How do you know this father hasn't concocted a story to save himself from a murder charge?

I'm not saying nothing untoward has happened, but I can't jump to conclusions based on a limited set of "facts" that cannot be disproved.

It still doesn't justify beating someone to death. We're supposed to live in a civilised society.

[Rincewind]

I believe the dead man was an 'out of towner' and a casual acquaintance. How well did the sheriff and accused know each other. It was a smallish town. This is while the report is being looked at by others.

Would the story had been headlines if it was the other way round. The accused was wiping some spilt orange juice off a small girl's dress the father enters the room and attacks him accusing him of interfering with his daughter, and in defending himself the father dies. Would the accused be let off because of self defence?