Legacy - Olympics

[Guest]

Listening today to the Murray adulation for winning the US Open re-inforced my belief that the media is leading "the legacy" in the wrong direction. Congrats to Murray btw. The news outlets spoke about the extended summer of gold and talked glowingly about Murray and the state of British sport with another win. However at the same time they denigrated him making the final (second consecutive GS final with 2 Olympicfinals in between) by saying how ater Djokevic fought back it looked like it might be the same old Andy Murray.

It seems that winning is the legacy they expect.

It was the same in the olympics - the medallists were rightly (perhaps overly) lauded, whilst those who didn't medal were denigrated.

Again winning is the legacy being promoted.

I'd hoped that the legacy would be many more people taking up sport in Britain both for leisure and competitively. I'd hoped that the legacy would be more sports clubs, sports teams and leagues, more funding for coaching and facilities and more acceptance that sport is for everyone NOT just for winners. We as City fans know that teams and individuals lose more than they win, only the few become champions but sport IS about taking part, accepting losing and therefore enjoying winning even more.

In the olympics we had athletes who didn't win - it may have been because they weren't as good, it may have been preparation, coaching, facilities, but I'm sure that many put in the same amount of work and effort as the champions and they should be lauded and helped, more so than the champions.

For me, I'll believe that the olympics was a success for Britain if grass roots of all sports flourish from now onwards. A good sign will be national amateur leagues in events like basketball, handball , volleyball etc... that can compete with the best European leagues in those sports and the site of kids playing a wide variety of sports with good facilities and coaching - skills as well as health and life skills.

Let's not get transfixed on champions. They will be the product of a sound legacy.

[FoxesAreBlue]

Totally agree, I just hope that we have the coaches and volunteers at the grass roots level to 1) cope with the new level of interest in the sports and 2) keep that level of interest up as we head into the long dark cold months of winter.

It's all well and good a few kids turning up to an athletics track/tennis court/hockey pitch and having a go over the last few weeks before the season ends whilst the sun has been kind to us, but come October/November time I hope that desire to take part is still there when it's pissing it down!

[accessory]

There's no way Murray would ever have had the strength to beat Djokovic last night if he hadn't had the memory of his Olympic triumph behind him.

His victory at the US Open is an example of how the Olympics have inspired the elite level competitors to strive towards (and achieve) bigger and better things.

But the legacy is not just about them alone. I'm fairly sure that the parade through London yesterday included ALL Team GB members, Olympic and Paralympic, medallists and non-medallists.

And that's how it should have been. Every one of the competitors contributed to the games and that contribution deserves to be recognised, not just now but in the years to come.

[Zingari]

One legacy will be the way we "look at the disabled".A phrase that's often been repeated.

The cynic in me believes it's a govt. ploy to get as many of them off long term benefits by ATOS "looking at them differently"

[davieG]

I've been saying all along as I've watched the Olympic coverage that the media seems to have forgotten this:

The founder of the Olympics, Baron Pierre de Coubertin, who said "The most important thing in the Olympic Games is not winning but taking part; the essential thing in life is not conquering but fighting well."

In many events you'd be hard pushed to even know there were other competitors taking part.

The politicians are only interested in rubbing shoulders with the winners for the reflected glory it brings them.

The cynic in mean reckons that this will all be forgotten sometime after the BBC Sports Personality of the Year, I noticed hidden away in the news there was an article on the number of Council run leisure facilities that have closed over the last year or so.

Governments of all shades have become very adept at selective short term financing of various worthwhile initiatives for the publicity it brings them, the reality is that this is rarely if every maintained,

[Guest]

It's one area I must give the French their due. Every small town has a "community gymnasium" and most have a covered tennis court. The facilities are their and the ease of setting up an "association" for the sports means that it then all comes down to volunteers who will give their time coaching.

Thankfully a lot of people do for kids from 4 years up through adulthood.

That's what we need in Britain. The facilities and opportunity for volunteers to help.

[Guest]

I've been saying all along as I've watched the Olympic coverage that the media seems to have forgotten this:

In many events you'd be hard pushed to even know there were other competitors taking part.

The politicians are only interested in rubbing shoulders with the winners for the reflected glory it brings them.

The cynic in mean reckons that this will all be forgotten sometime after the BBC Sports Personality of the Year, I noticed hidden away in the news there was an article on the number of Council run leisure facilities that have closed over the last year or so.

Governments of all shades have become very adept at selective short term financing of various worthwhile initiatives for the publicity it brings them, the reality is that this is rarely if every maintained,

This is my fear.

I haven't seen Cameron hanging around with a british competitor who came last in their event.

I really couldn't care less about the Ennis's of the world, I'm from Leicester and I've enjoyed sporadic champions in a variety of sports but I know that's the exception not the rule. I want to see kids and adults getting joy from playing competitve sport and even more joy from sharing time with like minded individuals afterwards - win or lose.

[Captain...]

The other thing we need to encourage is not just kids getting involved in sports, but adults too, it is never too late to join a club, start a sport, but I rarely see adult beginner classes advertised.

It is not about getting to Olympic standard it is about improving quality of life, and an adult interested in Judo, even if they only start now, will be more likely to get their kids involved.

As much as inspire a generation is a good tag line, why not inspire a nation, why is it all aimed at kids? Because nobody over 30 years old, starting a sport now will ever become Olympic standard? Not necessarily true, look at some of the Archers, Shooters and horsey folk, some of them were proper old.

I would hope that the legacy will be sport is for everyone, not just the next generation.

[Guest]

I also emphasised adults.

It'll be good for the nation's "health" physical and mental.

As you say it will also get more children involved and it's exactly these types of adults who in a few years will be ideal for coaching younger kids. Their understanding of the difficulties and their solutions for beginners is far more sound.

[Mack]

Truth be known the legacy of the Olympic games will be some bloke in 6 months time still wearing his over priced Team GB Olympic Baseball cap.

The Olympics are already chip paper news, and soon it will be X Factor and Strictly filling the screens and minds of our young.

From my experience what young people want these days in the main is to be famous, and there are much easier ways to achieve that than running your tits off.

[Captain...]

Truth be known the legacy of the Olympic games will be some bloke in 6 months time still wearing his over priced Team GB Olympic Baseball cap knock off t-shirt stretched over his gut.

The Olympics are already chip paper news, and soon it will be X Factor and Strictly filling the screens and minds of our young.

From my experience what young people want these days in the main is to be famous, and there are much easier ways to achieve that than running your tits off.

Some of our youth could do with running their tits off, especially the boys, as for X-factor and Strictly, at least strictly promotes dancing, and encourages beginners, X factor rarely comments on the sacrifices made to become a professional singer, and instead focusses on humiliation and sob stories. It really is a blight on our screens, but as a nation we still lap it up and have been doing so for over a decade now.

[purpleronnie]

I don't think murray would have achieved what he did if he hadn't trained in barcelona...thats the problem I fear...we really need to have the same grass roots facilities in many different sports if we are going to produce champions. The lottery is the main reason we have any success in sport in britain....thats great but its a shame we have to rely on it surely the government should be spending much more than it does....yes they didnt have to give this lottery funding but its a big pond and we remain small fishes when it comes to funding and facilities...hopefully things will improve after such a successful olympics.

[MooseBreath]

The Olympics will soon be forgotten. It was fun but pretty superficial. Not many people will continue to really care about most of the athletes, whether they were winners or losers.

We already host the premier league, one of the highest profile sporting events in the world, each and every year. I can't see how a bunch of people running, throwing sticks and jumping around for a few weeks one summer is going to make any difference.

[Captain...]

I don't think murray would have achieved what he did if he hadn't trained in barcelona...thats the problem I fear...we really need to have the same grass roots facilities in many different sports if we are going to produce champions. The lottery is the main reason we have any success in sport in britain....thats great but its a shame we have to rely on it surely the government should be spending much more than it does....yes they didnt have to give this lottery funding but its a big pond and we remain small fishes when it comes to funding and facilities...hopefully things will improve after such a successful olympics.

...or why shouldn't we go to centres of excellence around the world instead of being so insular, I seem to remember it put some of the British Tennis elite's noses out of joint that Murray did that. Like Mo Farrah getting a US trainer and going to train in Africa.

When you look at football, there was a stat the other day that only 30% of the premier league starters were eligible to play for England, whereas in Spain and Germany it was 70%, France and Italy about 60%, which looks bad, but then when you consider that there are also a high number of Spanish, French, Italians, Germans and Dutch playing in some of the other top leagues in Europe and not 1 English man that it makes the numbers look so much worse.

Apart from Beckham, and I don't class that as a top league, are there any English men playing abroad in top leagues? Joe Cole last season, but I can probably name every single Englishman that has played abroad in the last 20 years.

That sort of insular attitude will hold us back. We can't have the best facilities for everything, so lets use some of the world class facilities around the globe, at a fraction of the cost of building them ourselves.

[bmt]

Apart from Beckham, and I don't class that as a top league, are there any English men playing abroad in top leagues? Joe Cole last season, but I can probably name every single Englishman that has played abroad in the last 20 years.

Joey Barton

[Captain...]

Joey Barton

Good point, they are the players I mean though, the likes of Barton, good players who aren't quite fulfilling their promise, ok Barton has his problems, but players like Woodgate, Hargreaves, Lambert (I know he's scottish), but these players all improved by playing abroad.

How many Spanish players have played in the premiership at young age to learn and develop, Pique springs to mind, Reyes, Fabregas, Giuseppe Rossi and Materazzi of Italy, they were not all successes here, but they are all grew as players and developed their game.

Why do none of our young English players go abroad, they are good enough, I think Walcott or Oxlade-Chamberlain would benefit from a spell in Spain, where their style of play is rewarded rather than hacked down and coached to play the percentages. Why didn't Ben Marshall go on loan to a Spanish Division 2 side rather than Wednesday in league 1? He is good enough at that level, same with someone like Ince. Look at Knockeart, he will develop the physical side of his game much faster here than in France, and maybe one day will go back to France a much better player than he would have been if he had stayed.

The same goes for athletics and other sports, we should continue to be the world leader in cycling and get people to come to us, but we are never going to be the best at Basketball, for example, so we need to send the players we do have to play in the NBA, like Deng.

Cricket is another example, how many foreign players come to England to play in the Summer, and how many go to India or Australia or New Zealand to hone their game, IPL doesn't count as it is a lucrative 3 month slog fest, but even saying that it is helping develop our game and get used to those conditions.

[purpleronnie]

...or why shouldn't we go to centres of excellence around the world instead of being so insular, I seem to remember it put some of the British Tennis elite's noses out of joint that Murray did that. Like Mo Farrah getting a US trainer and going to train in Africa.

When you look at football, there was a stat the other day that only 30% of the premier league starters were eligible to play for England, whereas in Spain and Germany it was 70%, France and Italy about 60%, which looks bad, but then when you consider that there are also a high number of Spanish, French, Italians, Germans and Dutch playing in some of the other top leagues in Europe and not 1 English man that it makes the numbers look so much worse.

Apart from Beckham, and I don't class that as a top league, are there any English men playing abroad in top leagues? Joe Cole last season, but I can probably name every single Englishman that has played abroad in the last 20 years.

That sort of insular attitude will hold us back. We can't have the best facilities for everything, so lets use some of the world class facilities around the globe, at a fraction of the cost of building them ourselves.

Absolutely spot on, I think english players just are too comfortable and maybe lack ambition, when I say ambition I dont necessarily mean winning things but just improving as a player...I think playing in different leagues experiencing different cultures, attitudes and approaches to the game can only make you a better player but unfortunately most english players don't want to push themselves that much.

[Guest]

Whilst I agree with your overriding argument Cap Shrap, I don't agree with some of the details.

Football - Prem league (and lower leagues in comparison) is paid so well - that attracts foreigners and keeps English at home. English don't go abroad because they can't communicate - it's an educational problem not an insular problem - Brits on the whole are adventurous explorers. The young French flooded Arsenal and chelsea a few years ago.

Basketball - grass roots level is so poor, Europe is not far behind the NBA and ahead in certain areas but most Brits do not have the basketball background to even make lower European leagues. In France the kids play in leagues from 4 years old and France are not the best European country.

Rugby - everyone came to England a few years back (because it paid), now English players are appearing in France - it pays better.

[Captain...]

Absolutely spot on, I think english players just are too comfortable and maybe lack ambition, when I say ambition I dont necessarily mean winning things but just improving as a player...I think playing in different leagues experiencing different cultures, attitudes and approaches to the game can only make you a better player but unfortunately most english players don't want to push themselves that much.

I wonder if money is a factor? Pretty sure Wednesday in league one would pay better than a Spanish or French second division side.

[Guest]

As I said above Money and communication are the two biggest factors here.

[Big Dave]

The medallists do need to be lauded - provides aspiration for people to get into sports and do well. If we won no medals at the Olympics, how many people would be wanting to try new things?

[Captain...]

Whilst I agree with your overriding argument Cap Shrap, I don't agree with some of the details.

Football - Prem league (and lower leagues in comparison) is paid so well - that attracts foreigners and keeps English at home. English don't go abroad because they can't communicate - it's an educational problem not an insular problem - Brits on the whole are adventurous explorers. The young French flooded Arsenal and chelsea a few years ago.

Basketball - grass roots level is so poor, Europe is not far behind the NBA and ahead in certain areas but most Brits do not have the basketball background to even make lower European leagues. In France the kids play in leagues from 4 years old and France are not the best European country.

Rugby - everyone came to England a few years back (because it paid), now English players are appearing in France - it pays better.

Basketball was just an example in that clearly the US is the best, and there is no point trying to develop a league and facilities to compete with them, but if we can get 10-12 players in the NBA, then we will have a decent team, likewise if we find a prodigious ping pong talent, there is no point trying to develop grass roots support and funding and build big arenas, when they could just move to China learn from the best and develop over there.

It is sad that money is the overriding factor, but the English Rugby league is still the best in the world, but it is not uncommon for young rugby players to go to NZ and train, like Martin Johnson and a number of others around the same time did, then we go on to be the best in the world at Rugby. Of course this was pre professional era.

[Guest]

The medallists do need to be lauded - provides aspiration for people to get into sports and do well. If we won no medals at the Olympics, how many people would be wanting to try new things?

The non-medalists need to be lauded.

Change your cultural thinking.

Sport is not about being the best in the world.

[Guest]

Basketball was just an example in that clearly the US is the best, and there is no point trying to develop a league and facilities to compete with them, but if we can get 10-12 players in the NBA, then we will have a decent team, likewise if we find a prodigious ping pong talent, there is no point trying to develop grass roots support and funding and build big arenas, when they could just move to China learn from the best and develop over there.

It is sad that money is the overriding factor, but the English Rugby league is still the best in the world, but it is not uncommon for young rugby players to go to NZ and train, like Martin Johnson and a number of others around the same time did, then we go on to be the best in the world at Rugby. Of course this was pre professional era.

And NZ speaks English.

Moving yourself, your wife , your kids to France or Spain is another kettle of poissons

[Zingari]

The non-medalists need to be lauded.

Change your cultural thinking.

Sport is not about being the best in the world.

agreed ; I'm fookin brilliant at not being good at anything and it's time i got the recognition i deserve