Leicestershire assistant chief constable found dead...

[bmt]

21,000 children die every day through malnutrion and some of you are worrying about a guy who did wrong and then couldn't face the consequences.

Still sad though. The malnutrition fact isn't exactly relevant (not to take away from the seriousness of that either).

It's like saying why care about this person dying when 200000 did in Hiroshima/Nagasaki. That is a tragedy but a single death is too.

[Guest]

Still sad though. The malnutrition fact isn't exactly relevant (not to take away from the seriousness of that either).

It's like saying why care about this person dying when 200000 did in Hiroshima/Nagasaki. That is a tragedy but a single death is too.

Agreed but just trying to explain my lack of feeling which was demonised a little. I feel more upset by the child fact than the suicide, and that's to do with experience. Still not making excuses just explaining.

[bmt]

Agreed but just trying to explain my lack of feeling which was demonised a little. I feel more upset by the child fact than the suicide, and that's to do with experience. Still not making excuses just explaining.

Fair play think I took your point wrong then.

[flowwolf]

We are all going to die anyway sooner or later.

[davieG]

Merc

Police in Leicestershire are in shock after a senior officer being investigated over allegations of fraud and trying to dodge a speeding ticket died when he was hit by a train.

Assistant Chief Constable Gordon Fraser was killed in Aston Magna, Moreton-in-Marsh, Gloucestershire, shortly after midday on Friday. The 48-year-old's death is not being treated as suspicious.

• 
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  Leicestershire police Assistant Chief Constable Gordon Fraser was killed in Aston Magna, Moreton-in-Marsh, Gloucestershire, shortly after midday on Friday.
  

Mr Fraser had been due to appear before St Albans Magistrates' Court today alongside his wife, Teresa, who is also a police officer. The couple were charged in July with conspiracy to pervert the course of justice by allegedly lying to help Mr Fraser avoid a speeding fine.

At the time of the alleged offence, Mr Fraser, who had been a police officer for almost 25 years, was suspended from his post while he was investigated for suspected fraud and gross misconduct.

The inquiry centres on his alleged involvement in an overseas property business, in which investors reportedly lost money.

After the news of Mr Fraser's death emerged, a source told the Mercury: "At Christmas, he will have been suspended for two years.

"Whether or not the investigation into the property investment business clears him, that is a very long time for someone to have to live with something like that hanging over him.

"This is a tragic outcome. People who knew him, or worked with him, are devastated and are struggling to come to terms with it all.

"The past 18 months have been a bitterly disappointing end to what had been a very good police career and there were great expectations about what that man would have done with his career in the future."

An officer, who asked not to be named, said: "I met Mr Fraser a couple of times and I was really impressed with him. I heard the news on Friday and rang colleagues to ask them what they knew about it and how they were feeling.

"None of us know anything about the investigations or what he's supposed to have done, but that's the nature of these things. People will be shocked and upset because he was widely seen as one of us."

In January last year, after he was suspended, Mr Fraser spoke to the Mercury to protest his innocence.

He said: "They are paying me to stay at home, which is nonsense. I have been a public servant all my career.

"All I want to do is get back to my job of protecting the public. It's what I was brought up to do. I was doing a pretty damned good job when I was working and I was making a difference.

"I'm desperate to help the investigation and I am convinced my name is going to be cleared.

"Obviously, they will dot every I and cross every T and it will take months and then they will start asking me questions. Even if I am proven to be totally innocent, my career is over."

Mr Fraser's 42-year-old wife, a detective with West Midlands Police, is also suspended as part of the investigation.

Burbage councillor Mary Sherwin was a member of the Leicestershire Police Authority panel which interviewed and appointed Mr Fraser.

Coun Sherwin, who is no longer a member of the authority, said: "He seemed a very capable and forthright man. I can only say how sorry I am for his family.''

As the force's assistant chief constable, Mr Fraser oversaw its performance on tackling and investigating crime.

Leicestershire Police and Leicestershire Police Authority issued a joint statement, in which they said: "Our thoughts are with his family and friends. Mr Fraser had been offered welfare support during his suspension."

A spokeswoman for British Transport Police, which is investigating Mr Fraser's death, said: "Officers were called to the railway line in Aston Magna, Moreton-in-Marsh, on Friday following a report of a man being struck by a train.

"Paramedics from Great Western Ambulance Service also attended but the man was pronounced dead at the scene."

[Houdini Logic]

21,000 children die every day through malnutrion and some of you are worrying about a guy who did wrong and then couldn't face the consequences.

You don't care about someone dying in this country because -

1, They were being investigated (not convicted) for some sort of criminal act

2, People have it worse elsewhere

I'm quite sure the first time you've thought about malnutritioned kids was when you were looking for a point to argue.

You really are something.

[Parafox]

It's all terribly sad for all concerned. It's not like he shot some blind guy or fiddled with kids is it?

Some people are unable to deal with humiliation and letting down those who trust and depend on them. This is usually the last act of an utterly desperate human being.

Of any walk of life.

[MooseBreath]

Go easy on fif chaps otherwise she might go the same way as the 5-0 after the humiliation she has suffered in here and many other threads.

[Guest]

You don't care about someone dying in this country because -

1, They were being investigated (not convicted) for some sort of criminal act

2, People have it worse elsewhere

I'm quite sure the first time you've thought about malnutritioned kids was when you were looking for a point to argue.

You really are something.

I'm definitely something.

And your two reasons are wrong.

Still how could I match up to a person like you who clearly cares about every death in the world.

I don't know how you survive every day.

Do you spend every spare hour doing charity work too? Bozo.

[flowwolf]

I'm definitely something.

And your two reasons are wrong.

Still how could I match up to a person like you who clearly cares about every death in the world.

I don't know how you survive every day.

Do you spend every spare hour doing charity work too? Bozo.

Hang on a minute Bozo's a bit strong.

[Captain...]

I was just pointing out that all acts of suicide are not irrational... as was stated .. just because I didn't include none british folk does make it a snub or racist or xenophobic.....dear oh dear.. I do believe this example was a selfish act though. causing distress to others .....what was he thinking ?... how does anyone really know ?

I agree with you in this thread, I can't really have any sympathy with someone who took their own life, it is a choice, rational or not, and this one seems to have been taken after making a series of mistakes and being unable/unwilling to face the consequences. If he would rather kill himself than face up to it, then that is his choice (this may be a fairly simplistic way of looking at it, but without any further information I am not going to lose any sleep over a bent copper with questionable business practices).

I have sympathy for the family he left behind, and for the poor bastard driving the train, and the passengers that have to cope with the trauma of it all.

We can look into it all, and we can analyse and look at how we can better provide for those thinking about ending it all, but in the end there are some people that would rather die than live with themselves and the choices they have made. In a very callous way of thinking, why not let them, we are overpopulated as it is.

[Parafox]

I agree with you in this thread, I can't really have any sympathy with someone who took their own life, it is a choice, rational or not, and this one seems to have been taken after making a series of mistakes and being unable/unwilling to face the consequences. If he would rather kill himself than face up to it, then that is his choice (this may be a fairly simplistic way of looking at it, but without any further information I am not going to lose any sleep over a bent copper with questionable business practices).

I have sympathy for the family he left behind, and for the poor bastard driving the train, and the passengers that have to cope with the trauma of it all.

We can look into it all, and we can analyse and look at how we can better provide for those thinking about ending it all, but in the end there are some people that would rather die than live with themselves and the choices they have made. In a very callous way of thinking, why not let them, we are overpopulated as it is.

So you know this, then... proof?

[Captain...]

So you know this, then... proof?

Nope, but I thought that was clear, by saying without any further information, but with the info in this thread it is pretty safe to assume he has been up to no good, 2 separate investigations, then kills himself just before the hearing. I would be very surprised if he was cleared of all charges.

[Parafox]

Nope, but I thought that was clear, by saying without any further information, but with the info in this thread it is pretty safe to assume he has been up to no good, 2 separate investigations, then kills himself just before the hearing. I would be very surprised if he was cleared of all charges.

whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

[Houdini Logic]

I'm definitely something.

And your two reasons are wrong.

Still how could I match up to a person like you who clearly cares about every death in the world.

I don't know how you survive every day.

Do you spend every spare hour doing charity work too? Bozo.

How can you say those two reasons are wrong when that's exacty what you put?

And how can you miss the point by such a mile?

Can you not understand that it's not that I care about every death, it's the fact I think it's inappropriate to joke about a man who you don't know and who hasn't been proven guilty of any crimes other than lying about a speeding ticket... and to call him a willy puller, pathetic and selfish?!

whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

It's not convenient

[Captain...]

whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

I will take it all back if he is found to be innocent of all charges brought against him, but normally charges are not brought without evidence, especially not against a policeman, and normally innocent men don't kill themselves the day before the hearing.

I'm in a cynical mood and not going to lose any sleep over the loss of this man, I will save my sympathy for the family he has left behind and the poor sods that had to witness and deal with the aftermath of his chosen exit.

[Parafox]

I will take it all back if he is found to be innocent of all charges brought against him, but normally charges are not brought without evidence, especially not against a policeman, and normally innocent men don't kill themselves the day before the hearing.

I'm in a cynical mood and not going to lose any sleep over the loss of this man, I will save my sympathy for the family he has left behind and the poor sods that had to witness and deal with the aftermath of his chosen exit.

Well ok, but I had a colleague who killed himself because his baby son died suddenly and he was unable to cope with the loss. Does that make him selfish and undeserving of sympathy.

I accept the different circumstances but anyone who reaches the point of taking their own life must be worthy of some sympathy

[The Doctor]

I agree with you in this thread, I can't really have any sympathy with someone who took their own life, it is a choice, rational or not, and this one seems to have been taken after making a series of mistakes and being unable/unwilling to face the consequences. If he would rather kill himself than face up to it, then that is his choice (this may be a fairly simplistic way of looking at it, but without any further information I am not going to lose any sleep over a bent copper with questionable business practices).

Whether it's a choice or not isn't really the issue here - going back along the lines of what Daggers and Kokopops said, people who see suicide as a viable option are not in a good place by any stretch of the imagination, I don't see how you can't sympathise with that. A few possible shady moves doesn't really justify people laughing and joking about this, and certainly doesn't mean that people should see it fit not to sympathise with him.

[Captain...]

Well ok, but I had a colleague who killed himself because his baby son died suddenly and he was unable to cope with the loss. Does that make him selfish and undeserving of sympathy.

I accept the different circumstances but anyone who reaches the point of taking their own life must be worthy of some sympathy

Did he jump in front of a train?

If so I would have less sympathy for him, it is a horrendous thing for a train driver to have to experience, but ultimately the reasons for his depression were not self inflicted due to greed. So yes I would have sympathy for someone who had experienced that and felt they couldn't cope and wished to end it all...

...but should he have been stopped and forced to carry on living with the pain of losing his son?

[Captain...]

Whether it's a choice or not isn't really the issue here - going back along the lines of what Daggers and Kokopops said, people who see suicide as a viable option are not in a good place by any stretch of the imagination, I don't see how you can't sympathise with that. A few possible shady moves doesn't really justify people laughing and joking about this, and certainly doesn't mean that people should see it fit not to sympathise with him.

I understand that they are not in a good place, and I have a lot of sympathy for that when they are forced into this darkness by things out of their control, and I am not laughing or making jokes about what happened here, but if he did kill himself because of the decisions he made consciously and rationally motivated by greed and would rather be dead than in prison or discredited, then fair enough, let him die.

There may be more to it than what has been reported, which is why I said based on the info in this thread, but my sympathies lie with the people left behind who will have to deal with the hearings and (most likely) subsequent shame and consequences without him, and those that were unfortunate to bear witness to this incident, I can only hope it was a freight train and not a commuter train, and the medical teams and clean-up teams that had to deal with the bloody aftermath.

As suicide methods go this is pretty horrendous, not to mention dangerous and emotionally damaging to others, an overdose of pills would have been a much better way to end it.

[Houdini Logic]

Did he jump in front of a train?

If so I would have less sympathy for him, it is a horrendous thing for a train driver to have to experience, but ultimately the reasons for his depression were not self inflicted due to greed. So yes I would have sympathy for someone who had experienced that and felt they couldn't cope and wished to end it all...

...but should he have been stopped and forced to carry on living with the pain of losing his son?

How do you know that was the case?!

How do you know he wasn't innocent and this has just ruined his life?

How do you know that he wasn't duped into something himself, but the pressure of having to sit at home for 18 months had messed him up?

How do you know this was even related? It may seem a clear link, but you know nothing of this man so what right do you have to say this is self inflicted due to greed?!

[Captain...]

How do you know that was the case?!

How do you know he wasn't innocent and this has just ruined his life?

How do you know that he wasn't duped into something himself, but the pressure of having to sit at home for 18 months had messed him up?

How do you know this was even related? It may seem a clear link, but you know nothing of this man so what right do you have to say this is self inflicted due to greed?!

As I said, based on the information on this thread.

I am not going to start inventing facts to make me feel sorry for him.

[Houdini Logic]

As I said, based on the information on this thread.

I am not going to start inventing facts to make me feel sorry for him.

Yet you'll happily invent them to make you have no compassion.

Whatever

[Captain...]

Yet you'll happily invent them to make you have no compassion.

Whatever

Not invented anything, just interpreting them as I read them, I have compassion, just not for the guy who is now at peace and leaving his family to pick up all the pieces and the train driver to deal with trauma of having him smeared over his windscreen.

I am trying to view my opinions tactfully, but the info in this thread just makes me think of a cowardly bent cop, who couldn't face up to what he had done, so took the cowards way out, affecting many other innocent people in the process including ones he is supposed to have loved, now this may be wrong, not all the facts are clear, but that is how I have interpreted this story so far, and if it is the case then I am not going to be upset there is one less greedy corrupt coward in an already overpopulated world. This may not be the case so I am reserving judgement as best I can. What I do know for a fact is there are people out there deserving of sympathy over what has happened, and they have mine.

[Parafox]

Did he jump in front of a train?

If so I would have less sympathy for him, it is a horrendous thing for a train driver to have to experience, but ultimately the reasons for his depression were not self inflicted due to greed. So yes I would have sympathy for someone who had experienced that and felt they couldn't cope and wished to end it all...

...but should he have been stopped and forced to carry on living with the pain of losing his son?

I'm not going into the detail of what or how he did the act, suffice to say it was at high speed.

I have been to the results of these people going under trains and believe me it's not a fun place to be in the aftermath and i have every sympathy for the drivers, but that doesn't preclude me from having sympathy for those who feel this is their only way out.