Watford need promotion this year.

[MooseBreath]

What will be interesting is if Watford do get promoted, what happens then? You'll have a shell of a squad after all of your current loanees go back, so you'll be needing to build an entire squad up from scratch. The squad will need to be a premier league standard and all gelled and ready to go, all within a couple of months.

Let's face it Udinese and Granada aren't world beaters, do they really have much, if any, spare premier league standard capacity? I doubt it, so if not, how are you going to build a squad capable of competing? By relying on Udinese's scouting network? Is it really such a next-level network? Is it really capable of delivering an entire harmonic squad of premier league players to Watford in eight weeks? Doubt it.

[Finnegan]

What will be interesting is if Watford do get promoted, what happens then? You'll have a shell of a squad after all of your current loanees go back, so you'll be needing to build an entire squad up from scratch. The squad will need to be a premier league standard and all gelled and ready to go, all within a couple of months.

Let's face it Udinese and Granada aren't world beaters, do they really have much, if any, spare premier league standard capacity? I doubt it, so if not, how are you going to build a squad capable of competing? By relying on Udinese's scouting network? Is it really such a next-level network? Is it really capable of delivering an entire harmonic squad of premier league players to Watford in eight weeks? Doubt it.

You're probably just WUMing but I imagine most of the current loanees will come back as free transfers next season.

Maybe they'll keep Vydra at Udinese if they think he can make an impact, or Abdi, but the bulk will stay I guess.

[Captain...]

Who would though?

They could've picked anyone TBF...I think the fact we needed a new owner and were near London helped our case.

Anyone could be loaned a first teamer in this country from another club here...as unlikely as it would be!

I wouldn't expect a first choice player from Udinese (or Granada) to come either - they have their own battles to deal with.

I presume all transfers are checked and approved by the FA if they are doing their job....

But that would have to be beneficial to both clubs and not the benefit of the sporting collective.

I'm not accusing Watford of having done it this season, but these type of arrangements are open to exploitation.

[Captain...]

You're probably just WUMing but I imagine most of the current loanees will come back as free transfers next season.

Maybe they'll keep Vydra at Udinese if they think he can make an impact, or Abdi, but the bulk will stay I guess.

How does this effect ffp? Watford get a bunch of decent players on a free and so have more funds to spend on non Pozzo players whilst still being within ffp, whereas any other club that wants players of that quality would have to pay, unless they are all out of contract, in which case other clubs should be able to bid for them and make offers.

[Manwell Pablo]

How does this effect ffp? Watford get a bunch of decent players on a free and so have more funds to spend on non Pozzo players whilst still being within ffp, whereas any other club that wants players of that quality would have to pay, unless they are all out of contract, in which case other clubs should be able to bid for them and make offers.

 

It doesn't exist in the Premier League.

[Captain...]

It doesn't exist in the Premier League.

Yet, last I read was that enough clubs had agreed to it and it is coming into force, not sure if it will be the coming season.

Anyway Watford aren't in the premier league yet.

[Manwell Pablo]

Yet, last I read was that enough clubs had agreed to it and it is coming into force, not sure if it will be the coming season.

Anyway Watford aren't in the premier league yet.

 

The whole arguement is around a scenairo of Watford siging their loanes on frees after being promted this season, read the thread back, so there would be no FFP.

 

If that's not the what your talking about you might want to mention that as your going off on a different tangent

[Captain...]

The whole arguement is around a scenairo of Watford siging their loanes on frees after being promted this season, read the thread back, so there would be no FFP.

If that's not the what your talking about you might want to mention that as your going off on a different tangent

Fair enough it was more of a general objection to this multi ownership lark and how it could be used to get around ffp.

I'm not sure where ffp and the prem is at the moment, but it is coming.

This seems to say that it is coming next season, but is focussing more on wage limits than transfer fees so I'm still not 100% certain if it will affect things.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2307471/English-Premier-League-clubs-ratify-Financial-Fair-Play-regulations.html

[Manwell Pablo]

Fair enough it was more of a general objection to this multi ownership lark and how it could be used to get around ffp.

I'm not sure where ffp and the prem is at the moment, but it is coming.

 

You sure? I doubt it, not any time soon anyway, the football league is still fighitng it tooth and nail.

 

Anyway I doubt Udine are going to give their players away unless their out of contract. They have their own interests to look after, Watford will be paying a fee.

[Captain...]

You sure? I doubt it, not any time soon anyway, the football league is still fighitng it tooth and nail.

Anyway I doubt Udine are going to give their players away unless their out of contract. They have their own interests to look after, Watford will be paying a fee.

See link above, I edited.

According to the Watford fans they are going to get them for free, I'm not sure if they are out of contract or not, if they are then nothing should be able to stop another club offering them better deals. So I'm not really sure maybe one of the hornets buzzing around this thread can clarify.

[MooseBreath]

You're probably just WUMing but I imagine most of the current loanees will come back as free transfers next season.

Maybe they'll keep Vydra at Udinese if they think he can make an impact, or Abdi, but the bulk will stay I guess.

Fair enough.

Still can't see how this arrangement will benefit Watford as a premier league club as the best players will be kept by Udinese. It'll probably be beneficial to "the family" to keep Watford in the championship as more of a feeder club. Maybe I'm missing something but unless Udinese suddenly become massive with a large surplus of top players I can't see Watford ever being sustainable in the premier league for as long as their success is not "the family's" main priority.

[Captain...]

Fair enough.

Still can't see how this arrangement will benefit Watford as a premier league club as the best players will be kept by Udinese. It'll probably be beneficial to "the family" to keep Watford in the championship as more of a feeder club. Maybe I'm missing something but unless Udinese suddenly become massive with a large surplus of top players I can't see Watford ever being sustainable in the premier league for as long as their success is not "the family's" main priority.

They have stated that getting Watford into the prem is their number one priority as the money in the prem is so much more than in serie a or la liga. I presume keeping them there will be their next priority.

[Finnegan]

Fair enough.

Still can't see how this arrangement will benefit Watford as a premier league club as the best players will be kept by Udinese. It'll probably be beneficial to "the family" to keep Watford in the championship as more of a feeder club. Maybe I'm missing something but unless Udinese suddenly become massive with a large surplus of top players I can't see Watford ever being sustainable in the premier league for as long as their success is not "the family's" main priority.

If Watford survive the first season in the Prem they'll probably become the flagship brand. Serie A isn't the power it used to be and the tv and sponsorship money in the premiership is absurd.

Udinese aren't a huge club, they're about the Watford of Italy. It wouldn't be like dropping Milan to make Hull your main product.

[Manwell Pablo]

See link above, I edited.

According to the Watford fans they are going to get them for free, I'm not sure if they are out of contract or not, if they are then nothing should be able to stop another club offering them better deals. So I'm not really sure maybe one of the hornets buzzing around this thread can clarify.

 

 

If they're out of contract then yes they could pick them up for free (although so could any club)

 

If Watford fans think Udine are going to give their players to them then I think they'll end up very suprised.

 

If the consipracy theorists are right and the Pozzos are going to pool their resources I would wage it wont be favourable for Watford. I should imagine a team good enough to live in the bottom half of the Premiership would be maintained in order to maximise revenue and a Udinese title challange would probably launched off the back of it. People seem to forget their first love is Udinese football club and their interest in Watford is purely financial.

[Captain...]

If they're out of contract then yes they could pick them up for free (although so could any club)

If Watford fans think Udine are going to give their players to them then I think they'll end up very suprised.

If the consipracy theorists are right and the Pozzos are going to pool their resources I would wage it wont be favourable for Watford. I should imagine a team good enough to live in the bottom half of the Premiership would be maintained in order to maximise revenue and a Udinese title challange would probably launched off the back of it. People seem to forget their first love is Udinese football club and their interest in Watford is purely financial.

That's another possibility, equally as unsavoury, I hope that the FA, UEFA or FIFA step in sooner rather than later and sort this out before more club owners' family members buy other clubs.

I will also be hoping that Watford lose the final (rather than hoping palace and Holloway win) as I don't think they deserve to get promoted with only 3 of their own players in the team.

[MooseBreath]

Udinese aren't a huge club, they're about the Watford of Italy. It wouldn't be like dropping Milan to make Hull your main product.

Dunno about that. Udinese seem to up near the top on a regular basis, playing champions league football. Watford have never been anything close to a champions league club and never will be. I really can't ever see Watford being prioritised over Udinese, but I guess time will tell.

[Manwell Pablo]

Dunno about that. Udinese seem to up near the top on a regular basis, playing champions league football. Watford have never been anything close to a champions league club and never will be. I really can't ever see Watford being prioritised over Udinese, but I guess time will tell.

 

It aint just that, the Pozzos are Udine through and through it's where Giampolo was born, he's been chairman there for over 25 years.

 

If fans of Watford think their going to take priority over them they are sadly mistaken even if that's what the Pozzo's have said it wont be what they're thinking. I somewhat doubt you'll see quite as many loans to Watford in the future or players moving for free next season anyway. It was a very quickfire way of putting a team together over a short period of time. Given a full summer to build a side I think you'll things done a little more ethically.

[The Doctor]

Apart from the fact that it is clearly against the spirit of the game, which has been dead a long time, and whilst you can argue that Watford haven't done anything wrong this season, they could have 'loaned' in some of Udinese's first team for the run in. They didn't, but they could and that is why the rules need to be changed and any interests between clubs declared and transfers checked.

I think what sticks in the craw is that Watford haven't done anything to deserve it, the Pozzo family have built this scouting network and developed these players and bought them through Udinese and Watford are the Johnny come lately that are getting all the benefit without having any risk or any of the outlay.

Do Udinese have to conform to ffp? If not but Watford do then Udinese can bank roll Watford by buying players and 'loaning' then to Watford to get around ffp.

 

 

There's plenty of ways round FFP though - we'll almost certainly dodge it by increasing the value of King Power's shirt sponsorship so that the owners put money in that way. It'd be rich of us to complain about teams dodging FFP.

[Captain...]

There's plenty of ways round FFP though - we'll almost certainly dodge it by increasing the value of King Power's shirt sponsorship so that the owners put money in that way. It'd be rich of us to complain about teams dodging FFP.

There's a big difference between injecting more money into a club and one club giving another club owned by the same group players for free. My main objection isn't really about ffp I was just wondering how it would be affected if Watford do sign these players for free.

[Manwell Pablo]

There's a big difference between injecting more money into a club and one club giving another club owned by the same group players for free. My main objection isn't really about ffp I was just wondering how it would be affected if Watford do sign these players for free.

 

 

I think you should worry about that when it happens because I really don't see Udinese giving Watford players for free.

[Captain...]

I think you should worry about that when it happens because I really don't see Udinese giving Watford players for free.

This seems to be the Watford fans justifications for all of these loans, that they aren't loans, and that they will sign them at the end of the season for free. So that makes it ok.

Again if one of the Watford fans could clarify this as I'm just sort of paraphrasing at the moment.

[Super_horns]

I am not totally sure but the plan is to offer pernament deals to these loan players - ofcourse it would be up to them if they want to join us or move elsewhere/go back to fighting for a spot at Udinese where ofcourse they will have european football (afterall I believe they all have their OWN agents...)

 

I wouldn't expect to have any 1st teamers coming our way naturally and I do feel we don't want to rely simply on a hand full of loan players in the long run as they won't always show the same effort or desire as most of the current ones have (question could be are they doing it for the club or for themselves to put them in the shop window - Vydra for example - I am sure many top clubs might consider him)

 

Now you are all talking about potential Premier league outcomes we're bound to lose!

[aefevans]

This seems to be the Watford fans justifications for all of these loans, that they aren't loans, and that they will sign them at the end of the season for free. So that makes it ok.

Again if one of the Watford fans could clarify this as I'm just sort of paraphrasing at the moment.

 

Watford fan here. 

 

Basically, when Papa Giampaolo bought Watford, he went to the Udinese fringe-players and bench warmers and asked if they wanted to get involved. They were given the choice of going to Watford (on the understanding that some of their moves might be made permanent) or to stay at Udinese (and were told that they would not be guaranteed first-team football if they stayed). All but one player went to Watford; the oone who stayed behind preferred to try his chances at Udinese. 

 

Udinese selling the players to us would be like Papa Giampaolo moving his money from his left trouser pocket to his right.

[Captain...]

Watford fan here.

Basically, when Papa Giampaolo bought Watford, he went to the Udinese fringe-players and bench warmers and asked if they wanted to get involved. They were given the choice of going to Watford (on the understanding that some of their moves might be made permanent) or to stay at Udinese (and were told that they would not be guaranteed first-team football if they stayed). All but one player went to Watford; the oone who stayed behind preferred to try his chances at Udinese.

Udinese selling the players to us would be like Papa Giampaolo moving his money from his left trouser pocket to his right.

Can you just explain the bit about how their moves could be made permanent, the wording sounds a bit like they have no choice in it.

Also do you not see it as an unfair advantage that your owner has 3 pockets in his trousers, to use your analogy, when everyone else only has one?

[Manwell Pablo]

Can you just explain the bit about how their moves could be made permanent, the wording sounds a bit like they have no choice in it.

Also do you not see it as an unfair advantage that your owner has 3 pockets in his trousers, to use your analogy, when everyone else only has one?

 

 

Well you could say the same about it being an unfair advantage us having deeper pockets than everyone else.

 

Their both perfectly legal though so

 

I maintain I'll be suprised if Pozzo starts sending Udinese assests into England with no return. It's nothing like swapping money between two pockets, unless your pockets are run by a board of directors and have thousands of fans that is.