A Song of Ice and Fire - ENTER AT YOUR PERIL

[Sharpe's Fox]

WARNING, THIS THREAD WILL CONTAIN MASSIVE SPOILERS ON THE HBO T.V SERIES GAME OF THRONES.

 

There is a Game of Thrones thread already on the forum but I thought I could add a thread purely based on the books, including the characters, lore and theories surrounding the wonderful A Song of Ice and Fire series by George R.R Martin.

 

Feel free to add any thoughts you had on the differences between the show and the book, as well as any thoughts on developments in the book and how they will be applied on screen.

[Rincewind]

I don't think I can get the station that it is on anyway.

[Guest]

I thought there was already a thread for the book.

 

I hope Jon snow is not dead - don't GAF about the TV series.

[Sharpe's Fox]

I thought there was already a thread for the book.

 

I hope Jon snow is not dead - don't GAF about the TV series.

 

Mel will probably find some way to bring him back a la Beric Dondarrion, maybe warg into ghost for abit?

[Phube]

I'm still gutted about Ser Kevan, always liked his character.

 

I do love the fact the WHOLE series is really all being orchestrated by Littlefinger and Varis (and a little bit of Melissandre thrown in).

[Haydos]

I'm still gutted about Ser Kevan, always liked his character.

 

I do love the fact the WHOLE series is really all being orchestrated by Littlefinger and Varis (and a little bit of Melissandre thrown in).

 

Another fan Seems a decent chap. I'm still gunning for Jaime though.

[Phube]

Another fan Seems a decent chap. I'm still gunning for Jaime though.

 

To do what though? 

 

I'm sure Arya has a massive part in it somewhere but not sure where or how?

[Haydos]

To do what though? 

 

I'm sure Arya has a massive part in it somewhere but not sure where or how?

 

To live...for a start. I'm very interested in the Stoneheart-Brienne-Jaime story when the next book kicks off. I just like what he has become and hope that he has a 'redeeming' moment in the eyes of the public. He acts like it doesn't phase him but I think it's become more apparent that it has affected him over the years.

 

I can't work out the Arya plotline. She's clearly not going to complete her training as it would take too long and she didn't get rid of Needle. All that she knows is family and all that she thinks is revenge so she has to come back to Westeros. Where does she go though? Jon? Is he even alive? Joffrey? He's dead. Cercei? She's on a downward spiral already. Sansa? A long way away. Her story is wide open and will also be interesting.

[Sharpe's Fox]

To live...for a start. I'm very interested in the Stoneheart-Brienne-Jaime story when the next book kicks off. I just like what he has become and hope that he has a 'redeeming' moment in the eyes of the public. He acts like it doesn't phase him but I think it's become more apparent that it has affected him over the years.

 

I can't work out the Arya plotline. She's clearly not going to complete her training as it would take too long and she didn't get rid of Needle. All that she knows is family and all that she thinks is revenge so she has to come back to Westeros. Where does she go though? Jon? Is he even alive? Joffrey? He's dead. Cercei? She's on a downward spiral already. Sansa? A long way away. Her story is wide open and will also be interesting.

 

I have a feeling that Bran is going to intervene with Stoneheart-Brienne-Jamie thing. Remember the giant weirwood in the middle of the BWB cave? With his all seeing tree eyes he could calm Stoneheart the **** down.

 

As for Arya? I think she will be sent to Kings Landing by the Iron Bank to do one over Cercei. She has an intricate knowledge of the Red Keep but maybe could get involved with fAegon & JonCon. 

[Phube]

I have a feeling that Bran is going to intervene with Stoneheart-Brienne-Jamie thing. Remember the giant weirwood in the middle of the BWB cave? With his all seeing tree eyes he could calm Stoneheart the **** down.

 

As for Arya? I think she will be sent to Kings Landing by the Iron Bank to do one over Cercei. She has an intricate knowledge of the Red Keep but maybe could get involved with fAegon & JonCon. 

 

I like that... nice!

[Sharpe's Fox]

I guess with the death of Robbs missus on the show that most of the theories on Jeyne Westerling (Robbs book wife) being pregnant with the heir to the North are invalid, since the writers of the show have been told by GRRM what happens. oh well, I guess we still have R+L=J...

[Charl91]

I've mostly forgotten what happens, it's been so long. I can't imagine Jon being dead though, or at least dead for good anyway. His storyline seems too important.

[Captain...]

Just finished the last book, I can join in the discussions...

 

...erm, I still have no clue where it is going, I found the death of Quentyn to be big let down, I don't really see the point of his inclusion at all if he was just going to get burnt, I can imagine that all gets cut from the TV series, unless Arch and Gerris have a vital part to play. I am also intrigued where Arya's story is going, but after her chapters being some of my favourites they become my least favourite after she went to the house of black and white.

 

I would also have liked the last book to have more of a conclusion than about 10 cliffhangers, Jon dead?, Stannis dead?, (well everything that happened at Winterfell, Manderly, Theon, Asha, the dude from the bank, Karstark) Jaime dead/missing with Brienne, Daenerys being found by Khal Joqo, Selmy and Mereen on the verge of war, Davos searching for Rickon, Cersei's trial, Margaery's trial...

 

I appreciate it is an on going saga, but with there still no sign of the next book, it would be nice to have a bit of closure on some of these story lines.

[Trav Le Bleu]

Just finished the last book, I can join in the discussions...

 

...erm, I still have no clue where it is going, I found the death of Quentyn to be big let down, I don't really see the point of his inclusion at all if he was just going to get burnt, I can imagine that all gets cut from the TV series, unless Arch and Gerris have a vital part to play. I am also intrigued where Arya's story is going, but after her chapters being some of my favourites they become my least favourite after she went to the house of black and white.

 

I would also have liked the last book to have more of a conclusion than about 10 cliffhangers, Jon dead?, Stannis dead?, (well everything that happened at Winterfell, Manderly, Theon, Asha, the dude from the bank, Karstark) Jaime dead/missing with Brienne, Daenerys being found by Khal Joqo, Selmy and Mereen on the verge of war, Davos searching for Rickon, Cersei's trial, Margaery's trial...

 

I appreciate it is an on going saga, but with there still no sign of the next book, it would be nice to have a bit of closure on some of these story lines.

 

Have to agree with everything there, especially Quentyn. I appreciate a good red herring it was worked out over the course of a couple of chapters, no real build up. I can't see, after all the adversity and trials she has overcome, that Danaerys isn't going to return to Westeros to regain the Targaryen throne. The keys really are Littlefinger and Varys... Littlefinger will certainly not be interested in a return of the Targaryen dragons, but Varys?

 

Regarding the open ends, I do think that GRRM is in danger of using the abilties of the Red Priests to perform resurrections as a bit of a deus ex machina. We're all a bit, "yeah well, he/she'll come back to life", but I'm less sure. Having said that, I'm holding out the flimsiest of hope that Sandor Clagane is still alive. Can't help but think that GRRM might add something as yet unmentioned to the mix.

[Sharpe's Fox]

Just finished the last book, I can join in the discussions...

 

...erm, I still have no clue where it is going, I found the death of Quentyn to be big let down, I don't really see the point of his inclusion at all if he was just going to get burnt, I can imagine that all gets cut from the TV series, unless Arch and Gerris have a vital part to play. I am also intrigued where Arya's story is going, but after her chapters being some of my favourites they become my least favourite after she went to the house of black and white.

 

I would also have liked the last book to have more of a conclusion than about 10 cliffhangers, Jon dead?, Stannis dead?, (well everything that happened at Winterfell, Manderly, Theon, Asha, the dude from the bank, Karstark) Jaime dead/missing with Brienne, Daenerys being found by Khal Joqo, Selmy and Mereen on the verge of war, Davos searching for Rickon, Cersei's trial, Margaery's trial...

 

I appreciate it is an on going saga, but with there still no sign of the next book, it would be nice to have a bit of closure on some of these story lines.

Right here goes...

I think the death of Quentyn was meant to be the start of Doran and the Martells turning away from Dany and towards Aegon, and was the 'tragic love story' of the series.

As I posted earlier, Ayra's story points back to Kings Landing and Cercei, and possibly Aegon and JonCon. (Remember when she caught Varys and Illyrio chatting under the Red Keep?)

Jon is in no way dead, if he is Melisandre will resurrect him a la Beric Dondarrion. The real question is does this mean his watch has ended and will he turn away from the Nights Watch?

The stuff about Stannis is resolved by the Theon sample chapter. He will fight the Boltons and Freys and probably win.

Dany has Drogon, is she bothered about a few Dothraki savages?

Victarion will help out Barristan and Meereen.

I fvcking love Davos but don't know where his story is going.

I think Cercei's trial will end up with the epic battle between Sandor and Gregor Clegane.

[Captain...]

Right here goes...

I think the death of Quentyn was meant to be the start of Doran and the Martells turning away from Dany and towards Aegon, and was the 'tragic love story' of the series.

As I posted earlier, Ayra's story points back to Kings Landing and Cercei, and possibly Aegon and JonCon. (Remember when she caught Varys and Illyrio chatting under the Red Keep?)

Jon is in no way dead, if he is Melisandre will resurrect him a la Beric Dondarrion. The real question is does this mean his watch has ended and will he turn away from the Nights Watch?

The stuff about Stannis is resolved by the Theon sample chapter. He will fight the Boltons and Freys and probably win.

Dany has Drogon, is she bothered about a few Dothraki savages?

Victarion will help out Barristan and Meereen.

I fvcking love Davos but don't know where his story is going.

I think Cercei's trial will end up with the epic battle between Sandor and Gregor Clegane.

Well it is all well and good speculating, and whilst I guess the Dorne angle makes sense, surely Dany and Aegon will end up on the same side. Dany can't have kids so she won't be able to produce heirs, and Aegon is the rightful heir to the throne. So I don't see why they would be on opposite sides. I guess the other angle is that Dany knows she has friends in Dorne, I'm still waiting for her and Tyrion to meet. If it is supposed to be the big tragic love story he really didn't develop it very well.

As for the other stuff, again you are probably right, I think it is obvious that this Ser Robert is the mountain, whether he will fight the hound I don't know, are you suggesting Thoros has brought back the hound? Or has a Tyrell brought him back? Or the seven? I don't want it to get to the point where everyone who dies comes back.

Them there is the Ramsey's note to Jon, why would he claim Stannis has been defeated?

I don't mind their still being loose ends, it just would have been nice to tidy up a few of them.

I guess he didn't know it would be so long between books, but I think he should have finished it with Winterfell being resolved, the trials and Dany, Tyrion and the Victarion contemplating marching on Westeros, but I'm guessing that is how book six will end.

And the Theon chapter didn't resolve the Stannis thread, just added a bit more.

Is there another teaser chapter floating around somewhere? Anyone got a link?

Edit: found it http://www.georgerrmartin.com/excerpt-from-the-winds-of-winter/

Will read tomorrow, just read the winds of winter wiki, apparently Martin wanted to finish book 5 on 2 big battles, mereen and winterfell, but ran out of time/space.

[Trav Le Bleu]

As for the other stuff, again you are probably right, I think it is obvious that this Ser Robert is the mountain, whether he will fight the hound I don't know, are you suggesting Thoros has brought back the hound? Or has a Tyrell brought him back? Or the seven? I don't want it to get to the point where everyone who dies comes back.

 

 

It's not 100% certain that Sandor is dead - he was left dying. Though a head of a monastry said he was dead, when pressed on the point he said he was at rest. Even so, there's no reason to believe anything anyone says in ASOFAI (it's hardly a series to inspire faith in the nature of humanity).

[Trav Le Bleu]

Them there is the Ramsey's note to Jon, why would he claim Stannis has been defeated?

 

 

Ramsey is all about deception, mind games and torture (physical or mental). He knows the Night's Watch is made up mainly of criminals and outcasts who would be easy to turn (I've always thought the concept of the Night's Watch was daft - send the scum and dross to be your last line fo defence.) and his plan seems to have worked.

[Trav Le Bleu]

[Sharpe's Fox]

It's not 100% certain that Sandor is dead - he was left dying. Though a head of a monastry said he was dead, when pressed on the point he said he was at rest. Even so, there's no reason to believe anything anyone says in ASOFAI (it's hardly a series to inspire faith in the nature of humanity).

Carrying on form that, at the monastery there was a "massive hooded gravedigger with a limp" and when Dog the dog walked up to him he stroked him. I am not sure of the exact quote but is easily looked up in Feast.

[Haydos]

It's not 100% certain that Sandor is dead - he was left dying. Though a head of a monastry said he was dead, when pressed on the point he said he was at rest. Even so, there's no reason to believe anything anyone says in ASOFAI (it's hardly a series to inspire faith in the nature of humanity).

 

 

Well it is all well and good speculating, and whilst I guess the Dorne angle makes sense, surely Dany and Aegon will end up on the same side. Dany can't have kids so she won't be able to produce heirs, and Aegon is the rightful heir to the throne. So I don't see why they would be on opposite sides. I guess the other angle is that Dany knows she has friends in Dorne, I'm still waiting for her and Tyrion to meet. If it is supposed to be the big tragic love story he really didn't develop it very well.

As for the other stuff, again you are probably right, I think it is obvious that this Ser Robert is the mountain, whether he will fight the hound I don't know, are you suggesting Thoros has brought back the hound? Or has a Tyrell brought him back? Or the seven? I don't want it to get to the point where everyone who dies comes back.

Them there is the Ramsey's note to Jon, why would he claim Stannis has been defeated?

I don't mind their still being loose ends, it just would have been nice to tidy up a few of them.

I guess he didn't know it would be so long between books, but I think he should have finished it with Winterfell being resolved, the trials and Dany, Tyrion and the Victarion contemplating marching on Westeros, but I'm guessing that is how book six will end.

And the Theon chapter didn't resolve the Stannis thread, just added a bit more.

Is there another teaser chapter floating around somewhere? Anyone got a link?

Edit: found it http://www.georgerrmartin.com/excerpt-from-the-winds-of-winter/

Will read tomorrow, just read the winds of winter wiki, apparently Martin wanted to finish book 5 on 2 big battles, mereen and winterfell, but ran out of time/space.

 

The grave-digger at the 'monastary' that Brienne's party came across could be Sandor.