Guest MattP Posted 16 July 2013 Posted 16 July 2013 Froome was awesome Sunday, superb stage, Porte set him up brilliantly.
Lobsterboyuk Posted 16 July 2013 Posted 16 July 2013 It's not even certain that Valverde would've come back at all anyway, as slacking in the peloton wouldve meant Kittel coming back too, and QSPL would not have allowed that. As for the other working, the Saxo guys rode out of their skin, not sure the GC riders weren't going at max just to stay in the group tbh. And for the record Contador took quite a few leads, he didn't just sit back. Re: Sky, it seems quite odd that their wonderful new methods have seemingly only visible effects on their captain with the rest of the team not performing any better than helpers on the other team. I'm just not buying it. He might be a great talent and a late bloomer after getting cured of Bilharzia, but a fella who has absolutely shite technique on a bike outperforms the best riders in the world by unseen margins within two years of being a nobody, has to be one of the most suspicious scenarios in recent times. I hope for the sake of the sport he's as clean as he claims, but even so I think it's terrible for the sport to have a guy like him who's on a completely different level to the rest. Where's the fun in knowing someone is unbeatable? Without checking the history books closely I remember Indurain, Hinault, Merckx as previous examples of "unbeatable" riders. My gut is that a guy with optimum physiological base (capable of being super skinny and with a big pair of lungs, big gluteals) and absolute attention to training towards the tour can stand head and shoulders above his peers who are mired n decades of sub-optimal practices. 20 years ago I would expect to ride a 10 mile time trial in a time of 22:45. If I tortured myself today I could get below 20:00 despite my inferior physiology. Just highlights the clean advances in training technique (mainly power) and the vast improvement in equipment Fully concede that Froome might be doping but haven't yet seen evidence that turns me against him. Until I do he's a pleasure to watch leading a British team to another victory in a sport I have loved for a long time, fvck Armstrong (I never liked him even before the oping came to light)
Lobsterboyuk Posted 16 July 2013 Posted 16 July 2013 Froome was awesome Sunday, superb stage, Porte set him up brilliantly. Froome was a class apart!
Super_horns Posted 16 July 2013 Posted 16 July 2013 Rui Costa has taken up cycling it seems. Time Trial tomorrow should allow Froome to extend his lead...
shen Posted 16 July 2013 Posted 16 July 2013 Without checking the history books closely I remember Indurain, Hinault, Merckx as previous examples of "unbeatable" riders. My gut is that a guy with optimum physiological base (capable of being super skinny and with a big pair of lungs, big gluteals) and absolute attention to training towards the tour can stand head and shoulders above his peers who are mired n decades of sub-optimal practices. 20 years ago I would expect to ride a 10 mile time trial in a time of 22:45. If I tortured myself today I could get below 20:00 despite my inferior physiology. Just highlights the clean advances in training technique (mainly power) and the vast improvement in equipment Fully concede that Froome might be doping but haven't yet seen evidence that turns me against him. Until I do he's a pleasure to watch leading a British team to another victory in a sport I have loved for a long time, fvck Armstrong (I never liked him even before the oping came to light) Merckx, the phenomenon that was caught doping on three occasions? Indurain, who 'visited' the Italian doctor Conconi 'for tests only' as his helping rider Nijboers claims. The same Conconi that worked with Armstrong, Pantani, Riis, Rolf Sørensen, Moser, Cipollini and Fignon and is widely regarded as the person that introduced EPO into cycling. Come off it... They were doped to oblivion! It could well be that Sky's training methods and preparation is a step ahead of the rest, I have absolutely no clue. But when you look at their whole team, it's not like they're performing comparably better than rival teams. Only Froome seems to not have a single bad day. And herein lies the crux. I don't argue against Froome's physiology, he might indeed be a phenomenon, much like Armstrong was/is, but everyone will have a bad day during a 3-week tour. When someone doesn't I think it rightly raises suspicion. Not only has he so far not had a bad day, he's completely destroyed his opponents in three of the four stages available to him (if you include today's stage). With the revelation of micro-doping that is virtually undetectable, I think we're no nearer towards getting a 'clean' sport...
Lobsterboyuk Posted 16 July 2013 Posted 16 July 2013 Merckx, the phenomenon that was caught doping on three occasions? Indurain, who 'visited' the Italian doctor Conconi 'for tests only' as his helping rider Nijboers claims. The same Conconi that worked with Armstrong, Pantani, Riis, Rolf Sørensen, Moser, Cipollini and Fignon and is widely regarded as the person that introduced EPO into cycling. Come off it... They were doped to oblivion! It could well be that Sky's training methods and preparation is a step ahead of the rest, I have absolutely no clue. But when you look at their whole team, it's not like they're performing comparably better than rival teams. Only Froome seems to not have a single bad day. And herein lies the crux. I don't argue against Froome's physiology, he might indeed be a phenomenon, much like Armstrong was/is, but everyone will have a bad day during a 3-week tour. When someone doesn't I think it rightly raises suspicion. Not only has he so far not had a bad day, he's completely destroyed his opponents in three of the four stages available to him (if you include today's stage). With the revelation of micro-doping that is virtually undetectable, I think we're no nearer towards getting a 'clean' sport... Wow. I'm out of the loop, I didn't know Indurain worked with an EPO doctor. No immediate answers likely on this one, probably if he wasn't on a "British" team I'd be more cynical. I'm clinging to my optimism but wouldn't be surprised if it blows up in my face!
oxford blue Posted 16 July 2013 Posted 16 July 2013 Similar questions about doping were put to Wiggins last year and I don't think anyone really believes he doped. Last year Froome could possibly have won the Tour had Wiggins not been team leader. Clearly the two riders are very different personalities judging by their comments after being asked similar questions: Froome in 2013: "I just think it’s quite sad that we’re sitting here the day after the biggest victory of my life yesterday, quite a historic win, talking about doping. And quite frankly, I mean, my team-mates and I, we’ve slept on volcanoes to get ready for this, we’ve been away from home for months, training together, just working our a**** off to get here, and here I am, basically being accused of being a cheat and a liar and... that’s not cool." Wiggins in 2012: (from his autobiography) "I say they're fu**ing w*****s... It's easy for them to write that that sort that sort of shit rather than get off their arses.. and achieve something. C****s"
shen Posted 16 July 2013 Posted 16 July 2013 Similar questions about doping were put to Wiggins last year and I don't think anyone really believes he doped. Last year Froome could possibly have won the Tour had Wiggins not been team leader. Clearly the two riders are very different personalities judging by their comments after being asked similar questions: Froome in 2013: "I just think it’s quite sad that we’re sitting here the day after the biggest victory of my life yesterday, quite a historic win, talking about doping. And quite frankly, I mean, my team-mates and I, we’ve slept on volcanoes to get ready for this, we’ve been away from home for months, training together, just working our a**** off to get here, and here I am, basically being accused of being a cheat and a liar and... that’s not cool." Wiggins in 2012: (from his autobiography) "I say they're fu**ing w*****s... It's easy for them to write that that sort that sort of shit rather than get off their arses.. and achieve something. C****s" Well what the fudge did either of them expect?!?! The history of the Tour is riddled with doping sinners, and more often than not, the public are proven right in their suspicion. Instead they should prepare to face these types of questions because that's the state of cycling and it will take a long, long time (providing there won't be any high-profile doping casualties) before the riders and teams will have convinced the public they're 'clean'. The reaction from Sky and Froome after the Ventoux stage (denying TV transmission of their press meeting) is just farcical and further increases suspicion. And I'm still on the fence regarding Wiggins. His mercurial season in 2012 which followed poor or mediocre seasons and preceded his catastrophic 2013 make me wonder how on earth he managed it.
Super_horns Posted 16 July 2013 Posted 16 July 2013 I did hear Dave Brailsford admit he expects questions to be asked simply because as you say cycling has such a dubious past.. Its probably likely that if Sky weren't a British team our media would be asking questions too...
Amin Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 Another stage victory for Froome in a very exciting tt. Alpe d'Huez tomorrow.
Lobsterboyuk Posted 17 July 2013 Posted 17 July 2013 Great result today but was disappointed to read that sky refused to embed Paul Kimmage during the tour as he had previously with Garmin. http://www.independent.ie/sport/kimmage/day-17-paul-kimmage-believes-team-sky-and-froome-better-walk-the-walk-29424052.html
SOCCERROO FOX Posted 18 July 2013 Posted 18 July 2013 Well us Aussies do love a beer! http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/aussie-rider-adam-hansen-enjoys-a-donated-beer-during-tour-de-frances-most-sadistic-stage/story-e6frfkp9-1226681748106
marko Posted 19 July 2013 Posted 19 July 2013 I'd like to hear your thoughts on this, Shen. http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jul/18/team-sky-chris-froome-data
Lobsterboyuk Posted 19 July 2013 Posted 19 July 2013 That l'Equipe analysis on Froome's power data looks pukka to me, seemingly conducted by a credible expert. I doubt most sceptics would be satisfied by this though. Until something tangible about doping by Froome/Sky surfaces that I feel is credible I'm carrying on celebrating a magnificent athletic achievement.
marko Posted 19 July 2013 Posted 19 July 2013 That l'Equipe analysis on Froome's power data looks pukka to me, seemingly conducted by a credible expert. I doubt most sceptics would be satisfied by this though. Until something tangible about doping by Froome/Sky surfaces that I feel is credible I'm carrying on celebrating a magnificent athletic achievement. Don't worry Shen still won't have any of it.
shen Posted 20 July 2013 Posted 20 July 2013 I'd like to hear your thoughts on this, Shen. http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jul/18/team-sky-chris-froome-data Looks promising. Don't think I want Froome to be doped, I don't. What I'm genuinely worried about is that doping techniques that have surfaced recently, mean that it virtually cannot be detected. Don't worry Shen still won't have any of it. Yeah, I was just about to bite here...
marko Posted 20 July 2013 Posted 20 July 2013 Yeah, I was just about to bite here... I wasn't trying to get you to bite, it was just a tongue in cheek jibe about your cynicism of Team Sky.
shen Posted 20 July 2013 Posted 20 July 2013 I wasn't trying to get you to bite, it was just a tongue in cheek jibe about your cynicism of Team Sky. I would have reacted the same way had Mollema, Quintana or Fuglsang been riding like that. Doubt the defence of them would have been as staunch on here...
Charl91 Posted 20 July 2013 Posted 20 July 2013 Froome's basically won it then. Almost felt a little sorry for Contador, slipping down the rankings so badly at the end. Almost, but not quite.
Super_horns Posted 21 July 2013 Posted 21 July 2013 Heard its a night stage in Paris - bit different!
marko Posted 21 July 2013 Posted 21 July 2013 Heard its a night stage in Paris - bit different! Yep, they're arriving in Paris for twilight. A bit of twist - like the double d'Huez - for the 100th Tour.
Amin Posted 21 July 2013 Posted 21 July 2013 Two Brits in a row, not bad! I've also been really impressed with Nairo Quintana, great debut TdF for the Colombian. I really hope Cavendish can make it 5 Paris wins in a row today but i'm very worried about the German duo of Kittel and Greipel.
Amin Posted 21 July 2013 Posted 21 July 2013 It's official, congratulations Chris Froome and Team Sky! Great sprint from Kittel in the end to hold off Greipel and the bunny hopping Cavendish.
Super_horns Posted 22 July 2013 Posted 22 July 2013 It's official, congratulations Chris Froome and Team Sky! Do you think Wiggins will be back next year - if so be interesting to see who gets the "preferred" 1st choice.
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