OzFox Posted 14 August 2013 Posted 14 August 2013 The earthquakes are so small you're not even going to feel them. Gas coming out the sink taps was completely unrelated to fracking Difficult to prove either way, but scientists in both the US and Australia have found increased methane near gas wells. Probably not coming from the fracks themselves which are deep down, but from shoddy sealing of the well casing. In other words, the frackers are cutting corners. Plus there's an awful lot of people saying "I had no gas in my water before they drilled the well" Seems like a remarkable coincidence, unless they're all lying
Rincewind Posted 14 August 2013 Posted 14 August 2013 When they say it will be cheaper they would have to build them cheaper to give the biggest profit for the shareholders as possible. And I doubt they would be built near to where they live so unless negligence on their part can be proved which is doubtful they wont worry too much.
BoneDog Posted 14 August 2013 Posted 14 August 2013 There's not a chance in Hell that gas prices will be lowered. I think the six big energy companies made something like £3.3 billion in profit last year, and as I read elsewhere, it's bloody extortion. Prepare for another price-hike!
OzFox Posted 14 August 2013 Posted 14 August 2013 Ed Millibrand repeats himself. There's a man who knows he's going to be reduced to a six second soundbite, and is making damn sure he controls what's in those six seconds
Mack Posted 14 August 2013 Posted 14 August 2013 The earthquakes are so small you're not even going to feel them. Gas coming out the sink taps was completely unrelated to fracking That's not true. Fracking has been widespread in the states, and both earthquakes and severe contamination of drinking water delivered to people's homes has occurred. Before you start advocating a dangerous process for economic gain think of the dangers, and damage to the environment. We've done enough shit to this planet already, without leaving our kids another nightmare to clear up because of greed.
leicsmac Posted 14 August 2013 Posted 14 August 2013 That's not true. Fracking has been widespread in the states, and both earthquakes and severe contamination of drinking water delivered to people's homes has occurred. Before you start advocating a dangerous process for economic gain think of the dangers, and damage to the environment. We've done enough shit to this planet already, without leaving our kids another nightmare to clear up because of greed. The problem is, there are always those - including many rich and influential figures, it's how they got their money and influence in the first place - who care for nothing beyond their own lives. They don't think of the future beyond their lifetime, they just consider their own life, the wealth and status they can accumulate from it, and how that allows them to live. They simply don't care about long term futures because they will be dead, so it won't affect them. Such people consider fracking to be an ideal short term fix that will create wealth for those who control it, as well as jobs. They care nothing for the long term environmental consequences because to them it is simply out of their purview.
MooseBreath Posted 14 August 2013 Posted 14 August 2013 Or maybe the environmental impacts are being overblown from people who stand to gain substantially from any compensation payouts. I've certainly seen no respectable evidence that fracking causes many issues beyond that for which those affected will be appropriately recompensed. But any opportunity to have a dig at those more successful than you I suppose.
leicsmac Posted 14 August 2013 Posted 14 August 2013 Or maybe the environmental impacts are being overblown from people who stand to gain substantially from any compensation payouts. I've certainly seen no respectable evidence that fracking causes many issues beyond that for which those affected will be appropriately recompensed. That's true too. People would get a nice fix of cash that way too. But again it's symptomatic of short-term thinking. Please note I'm not saying that self-interest is a bad thing, or a good thing. It's just a thing. But self-interest is always going to govern matters like this, as well as many others. The thought of considering long term future has always come second to it.
MooseBreath Posted 14 August 2013 Posted 14 August 2013 That's true too. People would get a nice fix of cash that way too. But again it's symptomatic of short-term thinking. Please note I'm not saying that self-interest is a bad thing, or a good thing. It's just a thing. But self-interest is always going to govern matters like this, as well as many others. The thought of considering long term future has always come second to it. I think environmental issues and caring for the environment are part of the human psyche now more than ever, and the sum of our self-interest - that which determines our overall direction - contains plenty of long term vision as far as the planet is concerned. I mean, you can't go a day without some environmentalist moaning about something. Getting anything done in this country is becoming a joke.
OzFox Posted 14 August 2013 Posted 14 August 2013 I think environmental issues and caring for the environment are part of the human psyche now more than ever, and the sum of our self-interest - that which determines our overall direction - contains plenty of long term vision as far as the planet is concerned. I mean, you can't go a day without some environmentalist moaning about something. Getting anything done in this country is becoming a joke. I can't imagine why. I mean, it's not as though there's anything to moan about is there?
leicsmac Posted 14 August 2013 Posted 14 August 2013 I think environmental issues and caring for the environment are part of the human psyche now more than ever, and the sum of our self-interest - that which determines our overall direction - contains plenty of long term vision as far as the planet is concerned. I mean, you can't go a day without some environmentalist moaning about something. Getting anything done in this country is becoming a joke. But that doesn't tend to have an effect on the overall action. NIMBYs have been moaning since the dawn of time, but I reckon most of the time their protests tend to be in vain. I think there's plenty of long term vision and lots of talk about it, but not a lot of actual actions taken that take the long term future into account.
Foxes1884 Posted 14 August 2013 Posted 14 August 2013 For me shall gas extraction has to be taken forward to create jobs and expertise in this country. There is a lot of misrepresentation being spread around and unfortunately there are bad examples of how things can go wrong from unregulated cowboys having a go in the USA. I cannot though see Shale Gas in the UK having any impact on UK gas prices as has been seen in USA. This is due to us not being able to build the necessary quantity of wells required to extract enough gas to effect the price. There are 3 reasons for this: 1) We have a lack of space in this county particularly compared to the open expanses of the USA. To provide only 2-3% of the UK gas demand we would need to build around 140 wells by 2030. A 10 well pad in the drilling phase requires a footprint of 2-3 football pitches and would take 6-9 months to construct. After this the size would be reduced to 2-3 tennis courts for 20-30 years during production phase. 2) The land owners do not have the rights to the natural gas below their land. There is no real financial gain for them to allow or actively promote the extraction on their land compared to the USA where the landowner owns the gas. 3) The cost of extraction due to regulation and standards in this country compared to the USA.
OzFox Posted 15 August 2013 Posted 15 August 2013 But that doesn't tend to have an effect on the overall action. NIMBYs have been moaning since the dawn of time, but I reckon most of the time their protests tend to be in vain. I think there's plenty of long term vision and lots of talk about it, but not a lot of actual actions taken that take the long term future into account. I think with fracking it's the NIMNBYs that have the most to complain about (Not in my Neighbours Back Yard). That's been the problem overseas at any rate. Somebody cashes in, allows the gas company onto their land and the neighbours have to put up with the noise, trucks, gas, alleged chemical exposure and if they're really unlucky, a pipeline across their own land. There's not much they can do about it, and they get no compensation
MooseBreath Posted 16 August 2013 Posted 16 August 2013 Oh look. The environmentalist scum are getting in the way of something they know nothing about again. http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-23721713 We could learn a thing or two from Egypt about how to deal with groups of cvnts like these.
leicsmac Posted 16 August 2013 Posted 16 August 2013 Oh look. The environmentalist scum are getting in the way of something they know nothing about again. http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-23721713 We could learn a thing or two from Egypt about how to deal with groups of cvnts like these. Because that of course is the way we should deal with protests or civil disobedience. With the iron fist of authoritarianism. Come on! When did the people in this country become so subservient? When did thinking and acting as an individual and not just lying down in the dirt for governments become unpopular? You may not agree with the reason they are there (and I'm not sure if I do either) but they have broken no law and I'd much rather have some protests about something that might actually be the right thing to do than no protests at all about something that is definitely the wrong thing to do. As for the energy issue as a whole I've said my piece on this thread before so won't repeat it.
OzFox Posted 16 August 2013 Posted 16 August 2013 Oh look. The greenie granola munching poofter hippies are getting in the way of something they know nothing about again. Why hold back? Let it all out.
Rincewind Posted 16 August 2013 Posted 16 August 2013 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ive-had-verbal-abuse-every-day-the-other-side-of-balcombes-fracking-row-8764432.html
Zingari Posted 16 August 2013 Posted 16 August 2013 Because that of course is the way we should deal with protests or civil disobedience. With the iron fist of authoritarianism. Come on! When did the people in this country become so subservient? When did thinking and acting as an individual and not just lying down in the dirt for governments become unpopular? You may not agree with the reason they are there (and I'm not sure if I do either) but they have broken no law and I'd much rather have some protests about something that might actually be the right thing to do than no protests at all about something that is definitely the wrong thing to do. As for the energy issue as a whole I've said my piece on this thread before so won't repeat it. Well said Mac I totally agree Dunno if "Mac" indicates that you have Celtic heritage but I'm sure there is more rebelliousness running through the Celtic peoples than other Brits
leicsmac Posted 16 August 2013 Posted 16 August 2013 Well said Mac I totally agree Dunno if "Mac" indicates that you have Celtic heritage but I'm sure there is more rebelliousness running through the Celtic peoples than other Brits Scottish distant, Irish closer (grandparents). So yeah.
Zingari Posted 16 August 2013 Posted 16 August 2013 Scottish distant, Irish closer (grandparents). So yeah. I don't think we can help ourselves from a natural tendency to be mistrustful of authority etc it must be something in the gene pool .
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