Guest MattP Posted 19 February 2014 Posted 19 February 2014 All that said, for me cultural (as opposed to financial, which is a different matter) right wing thought seems indelibly linked to nationalism for me, and while there's nothing wrong with being proud of your country it tends to also come with rather unfortunate side effects in many (but by no means all) individuals...and having that pop up across Europe could create tension between countries of a rather unpleasant kind. That can happen anything, you only have to look at the misery and unrest from people in some countries that have been forced into the EU now, we might not at the stage yet but civil wars could easily erupt in the next 20-30 years in Greece, Ukraine and in a handful of the balkan states. As Webbo says, the left have a different view of what being right wing means to those of us on the right.
bovril Posted 19 February 2014 Posted 19 February 2014 That can happen anything, you only have to look at the misery and unrest from people in some countries that have been forced into the EU now, we might not at the stage yet but civil wars could easily erupt in the next 20-30 years in Greece, Ukraine and in a handful of the baltic states. As Webbo says, the left have a different view of what being right wing means to those of us on the right. Baltic or Balkan? I've been saying for a while that something big's going to happen round this way soon. Former Yugoslavia is still a mess, Greece is getting worse and worse, similar East / West tensions exist in Bulgaria like in Ukraine. I don't think there are enough people left in Latvia for anything to happen there....
MC Prussian Posted 19 February 2014 Posted 19 February 2014 Nationalism isn't necessarily right wing. The Soviet Union was as nationalistic as anywhere. For me right wing means small govt, individuality, free speech and free market economics.There's nothing inherently racist or nationalistic about it. And here's where I'm struggling lately. Personally, I've witnessed too much negative propaganda towards people with my point of view that too much immigration too soon kills a healthy development in the respective host country. Left-wing politicians and newspapers (as well as our state-owned TV network) have been very quick to call doubters of this free-market paradigm "xenophobic" and/or "racist". I find that shocking and appalling. In particular, because I still see myself as having leftist tendencies (social welfare, state benefits, education, etc). I'm a big fan of a united Europe, yet the EU in its current form doesn't instill me with a lot of hope or belief. It's a molokh of an apparatus and only logically bound to corruption, sloth and other political abuse, and that on a massive scale. No wonder some are starting to compare it to the former Soviet Union. The EU allegedly wants peace and prosperity - but at what price? And who benefits mostly from free movement of labor?Also, as a food for thought: You don't have to be right-wing to be patriotic or nationalist.
Guest MattP Posted 19 February 2014 Posted 19 February 2014 Baltic or Balkan? I've been saying for a while that something big's going to happen round this way soon. Former Yugoslavia is still a mess, Greece is getting worse and worse, similar East / West tensions exist in Bulgaria like in Ukraine. I don't think there are enough people left in Latvia for anything to happen there.... Sorry mate I meant Balkan. Greece could easily be the spark that set the whole region off. Tell me more I'd be interested to hear your thoughts living out there.
bovril Posted 19 February 2014 Posted 19 February 2014 Too long and complicated and I'm to lazy to really get into it now! Typical Balkan problems....outside influence as usual. Russia of course but also an increasingly belligerent regime in Turkey. All you need to know is that the leaders of the two parties currently in coalition in BG are Russian and Turkish. So you have the East / West tension exacerbated by the European economic woes and a potentially nasty ethnic mix.Thankfully Bulgarians prefer eating and drinking to fighting and it's a lot calmer here than in other countries. Macedonia is a disaster waiting to happen, a dwindling 'local' population and an increasing Albanian community who don't want to be part of Macedonia. Bosnia is a fvcking state, 50% youth unemployment, factory workers not getting paid for a year, and the Serbian enclave ready to vote to succeed from the very flimsy union.And Ukraine... the Russians will never let go of Ukraine. It's their Kosovo.
DANGEROUS TIGER Posted 19 February 2014 Posted 19 February 2014 You mean me or the original poster? No not you.
Guest MattP Posted 19 February 2014 Posted 19 February 2014 No not you. He's on about the Pink Panther starting the thread.
leicsmac Posted 20 February 2014 Posted 20 February 2014 Nationalism isn't necessarily right wing. The Soviet Union was as nationalistic as anywhere. For me right wing means small govt, individuality, free speech and free market economics.There's nothing inherently racist or nationalistic about it. You're right. I guess the point I was trying to make is that not all nationalist governments are hard right wing, but all hard right wing governments are nationalist. I have no problem with right-wing economic theory (free market etc), and I think that free speech is more a libertarian idea than a right wing one per se. That can happen anything, you only have to look at the misery and unrest from people in some countries that have been forced into the EU now, we might not at the stage yet but civil wars could easily erupt in the next 20-30 years in Greece, Ukraine and in a handful of the balkan states. As Webbo says, the left have a different view of what being right wing means to those of us on the right. I think people get the distinction between right wing/left wing/libertarian/authoritarian mixed up quite often. Right wing thought (individuality and small government) I have no problem with whatsoever, and free market economics is a good thing too. It's authoritarianism and everything that goes with it that really gets on my nerves - because such regimes often use nationalism as an excuse to abuse their own population, and in some cases others. Nothing unites the people like a good war, does it? And that's what I fear in Europe - with the failure of many parts of the EU, authoritarian regimes will seek to take advantage of the chaos by taking control of individual countries, breeding mistrust of 'foreigners' and repressing many essential freedoms. I don't think it'll get really nasty, but given what has always followed big economic failures in the past I am a little concerned.
FuriousFox46 Posted 21 February 2014 Author Posted 21 February 2014 If only you were so investigative over other parties ... Noting new though, some parties have odd balls. Granted, but a lot of the points were aimed at Farage, the party leader I'm no fan of UKIP but that article is embarrassing in the extreme. Couldn't read beyond point 2 as I was at the point of cringing to death. Unspecified cringing, not very constructive. Terrible read. Painful at times and actually in the end couldn't give a single reason why a eurosceptic wouldn't vote for UKIP in the Euro elections. Can't debate the issues so just sling mud. Shame you haven't investigated the councillors of Labour or the Lib Dems. I gave several reasons why UKIP's one policy was fatally flawed too. UKIP is just a party for people who think they are too posh to vote BNP. Correct Absolute load of rubbish, written by a Mr. Cringeworthy. Go away, you odious little festering turd. Being called 'cringe-worthy' by a man who refers to himself as 'DANGEROUS TIGER' is certainly a new low. You seem a very angry man, who doesn't seem to be able to deal with differing view points without getting upset. Grow up.
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