leicsmac Posted 19 February 2014 Posted 19 February 2014 So you think its better for me to have a representative that I don't agree with, that won't represent my views. Than one that shares my views and represents my contempt? I really don't think you understand my views at all, or maybe the veiws of anyone who is considering or already votes UKIP. False dichotomy. CPF was clearly referring to a representative that agrees with you and represents your contempt by actually trying to push through anti EU legislation, rather than ensuring the status quo by doing nothing. But I think you knew that.
purpleronnie Posted 19 February 2014 Posted 19 February 2014 UKIP are funny, but there's people out there willing to vote for them without reading their very strange manifesto (which changes with the wind).
DennisNedry Posted 19 February 2014 Posted 19 February 2014 Stupid blog, just picks out a few arsehole members and smears the whole party. You can do that with every party.
Zingari Posted 19 February 2014 Posted 19 February 2014 Absolute load of rubbish, written by a Mr. Cringeworthy. Go away, you odious little festering turd. How did the job interview at the Diplomat Service go ?
Strokes Posted 19 February 2014 Posted 19 February 2014 False dichotomy. CPF was clearly referring to a representative that agrees with you and represents your contempt by actually trying to push through anti EU legislation, rather than ensuring the status quo by doing nothing. But I think you knew that.Read the post I put that he origionally responded too, I said there was no other I agreed with. So a perfectly reasonable response.
leicsmac Posted 19 February 2014 Posted 19 February 2014 Read the post I put that he responded too, I said there was no other I agreed with. So a perfectly reasonable response. But surely it's better to have someone over there actively working to bring the UK out of the EU and make it clear how some people view the EU in this country through actual action, rather than merely doing nothing and acting as a silent protest? Even if it doesn't make a referendum more likely doing something is better than doing nothing?
Captain... Posted 19 February 2014 Posted 19 February 2014 So you think its better for me to have a representative that I don't agree with, that won't represent my views. Than one that shares my views and represents my contempt? I really don't think you understand my views at all, or maybe the veiws of anyone who is considering or already votes UKIP. My mistake, I assumed you were genuinely concerned about the EU and its ability to impose rules and regulations on the UK that are not in our interest, and so would vote for an MEP that would actually try and protect british interest, rather than a UKIP MEP that would let the EU do what it wants.
Strokes Posted 19 February 2014 Posted 19 February 2014 But surely it's better to have someone over there actively working to bring the UK out of the EU and make it clear how some people view the EU in this country through actual action, rather than merely doing nothing and acting as a silent protest? Even if it doesn't make a referendum more likely doing something is better than doing nothing?Again I disagree, if the wrong thing is going to be done regardless, its better to disassociate yourself from it. Hence my support.
Strokes Posted 19 February 2014 Posted 19 February 2014 My mistake, I assumed you were genuinely concerned about the EU and its ability to impose rules and regulations on the UK that are not in our interest, and so would vote for an MEP that would actually try and protect british interest, rather than a UKIP MEP that would let the EU do what it wants.Yes it is your mistake, I don't think EU implementing any rules over here is in our interests. So the whole thing is farcical.
leicsmac Posted 19 February 2014 Posted 19 February 2014 Again I disagree, if the wrong thing is going to be done regardless, its better to disassociate yourself from it. Hence my support. If that was the course of action every time a wrong thing was done, nothing would change. Besides, having a UKIP MEP being active out there could attract further support here, if it is clearly shown that they are taking action.
Captain... Posted 19 February 2014 Posted 19 February 2014 Yes it is your mistake, I don't think EU implementing any rules over here is in our interests. So the whole thing is farcical. So surely vote for someone who will fight them, vote against every policy, disrupt and delay every parliament, every commission meeting, every bill, actively fight them, rather than do nothing. Would you vote for a Tory who promised to do that ahead of a UKIP who does nothing?
Strokes Posted 19 February 2014 Posted 19 February 2014 Besides, having a UKIP MEP being active out there could attract further support here, if it is clearly shown that they are taking action.This might be true, they might attract support in many ways for a variety of reasons but on the point we are discussing I wholeheartedly agree with the stance. Its not as if the MEPS decide anything anyway.
Strokes Posted 19 February 2014 Posted 19 February 2014 So surely vote for someone who will fight them, vote against every policy, disrupt and delay every parliament, every commission meeting, every bill, actively fight them, rather than do nothing. Would you vote for a Tory who promised to do that ahead of a UKIP who does nothing? It doesn't matter whether its disruptive, MEPS decide NOTHING! This contempt represents my views, how is that hard to comprehend?
Captain... Posted 19 February 2014 Posted 19 February 2014 It doesn't matter whether its disruptive, MEPS decide NOTHING! This contempt represents my views, how is that hard to comprehend? They vote on every piece of EU legislation, the Parliament decides whether it becomes EU law, it is the most powerful legislative body with in the EU (according to some). But the relative power or not of the EP is irrelevant. What gets me is that people will vote for someone to do nothing ahead of someone who would fight for British rights and affect change from within. An individual MEP has no real ability to decide anything, but the same can be said of an MP, but Farage has allied the UKIPs with other Eurosceptic MEPS and formed a small voting block, the EFD, but none of them vote either. It is very hard to comprehend how someone who hates the influence of the EU would vote for someone who will stay at home and do nothing to stop the influence of Europe instead of someone who will actually work to try to protect the UK from the influence of the EU. Because it is illogical.
Guest MattP Posted 19 February 2014 Posted 19 February 2014 UKIP are funny, but there's people out there willing to vote for them without reading their very strange manifesto (which changes with the wind). How many people who turned up to vote Labour or Tory in 2010 do you think sat and read through the whole manifesto? I'd bet you would be looking at 0.1% max. Stupid blog, just picks out a few arsehole members and smears the whole party. You can do that with every party. Ironically the UKIP weather guy was a Tory who had been saying these things for years then as soon as he defected to UKIP he started appearing on the front pages when saying them. Just goes to show, whether you are Respect, UKIP, Greens, BNP or whatever, as soon as you threaten that Westminster Bubble the main 3 parties will combine to use their media contacts, propaganda and influence to smear, slander and make sure their own power isnt threatened. My mistake, I assumed you were genuinely concerned about the EU and its ability to impose rules and regulations on the UK that are not in our interest, and so would vote for an MEP that would actually try and protect british interest, rather than a UKIP MEP that would let the EU do what it wants. Sending more UKIP MEP's to that place than any other party would do more to send an anti-EU message than any vote or influence could ever do. If you are a Eurosceptic then UKIP is the only vote you can put forward in May this year in the European elections. I couldnt care less to be honest if Farage is only turning up a few times a year, for one whenever he does turn up it ends in a recorded brillant verbal assault for us to watch on Youtube, he's worth his vote and seat for that alone. He's also been banned and fined by the place so I could understand him not wanting to be there too often. The Tories have done a good job sending eurosceptic politicians into the place (Dan Hannan is just an anti EU as Farage and does a brilliant job expressing how undemocratic and autocratic the place is) but the message has to be strong from the British people in May 2015 who feel like me and others in this thread and UKIP has to be the answer to that. Here's Hannan in action (didnt realise this has near on 3million views) Possible future leader of the Conservatives, a brilliant mind.
purpleronnie Posted 19 February 2014 Posted 19 February 2014 How many people who turned up to vote Labour or Tory in 2010 do you think sat and read through the whole manifesto? I'd bet you would be looking at 0.1% max. just call me a nerd ok? I can handle it.
Captain... Posted 19 February 2014 Posted 19 February 2014 Sending more UKIP MEP's to that place than any other party would do more to send an anti-EU message than any vote or influence could ever do. If you are a Eurosceptic then UKIP is the only vote you can put forward in May this year in the European elections. I couldnt care less to be honest if Farage is only turning up a few times a year, for one whenever he does turn up it ends in a recorded brillant verbal assault for us to watch on Youtube, he's worth his vote and seat for that alone. He's also been banned and fined by the place so I could understand him not wanting to be there too often. The Tories have done a good job sending eurosceptic politicians into the place (Dan Hannan is just an anti EU as Farage and does a brilliant job expressing how undemocratic and autocratic the place is) but the message has to be strong from the British people in May 2015 who feel like me and others in this thread and UKIP has to be the answer to that. Here's Hannan in action (didnt realise this has near on 3million views) Possible future leader of the Conservatives, a brilliant mind. I can see why someone would vote for him and other Eurosceptic MEPs that will actively fight the EU. What message would it send to whom? The EU won't care that the UKIPs don't bother turning up, they will just plough on regardless with no objection from the UKIPs as they sit at home. Cameron has pledged to have a referendum on Europe, that is when you can send a message and the will of the people will be heard. But in case the will of the people is to remain in Europe then surely you wouldn't want a bunch of UKIPs not bothering to turn up to represent the views of the UK?
Guest MattP Posted 19 February 2014 Posted 19 February 2014 I can see why someone would vote for him and other Eurosceptic MEPs that will actively fight the EU. What message would it send to whom? The EU won't care that the UKIPs don't bother turning up, they will just plough on regardless with no objection from the UKIPs as they sit at home. Cameron has pledged to have a referendum on Europe, that is when you can send a message and the will of the people will be heard. But in case the will of the people is to remain in Europe then surely you wouldn't want a bunch of UKIPs not bothering to turn up to represent the views of the UK? Cameron pledged to have one before and lied, on that principle he loses my vote in Europe. It sends a huge message, it shows them what the people of the UK think. More importantly though to people like me it would continue to strengthen the position of the Europe of Freedom and Democracy Group and the Movement for a Europe of Liberties and Democracy Group, which could hold a serious number of MEP's by the end of the year considering voting trends in countries across the continent, which in turn should lead to politics across Europe moving from this moderate right position to an even further right one and UKIP would be playing a major part in that.
leicsmac Posted 19 February 2014 Posted 19 February 2014 Cameron pledged to have one before and lied, on that principle he loses my vote in Europe. It sends a huge message, it shows them what the people of the UK think. More importantly though to people like me it would continue to strengthen the position of the Europe of Freedom and Democracy Group and the Movement for a Europe of Liberties and Democracy Group, which could hold a serious number of MEP's by the end of the year considering voting trends in countries across the continent, which in turn should lead to politics across Europe moving from this moderate right position to an even further right one and UKIP would be playing a major part in that. Forgive me if I'm reading this wrong, but you actively WANT a shift further to the right in politics across Europe Matt? Apologies for using a classic internet argument here, but exactly what happened the last time most of Europe lurched that way? Edit: I should probably temper that by saying nationalist, isolationist and authoritarian, rather than right wing per se.
Guest MattP Posted 19 February 2014 Posted 19 February 2014 Forgive me if I'm reading this wrong, but you actively WANT a shift further to the right in politics across Europe Matt? Apologies for using a classic internet argument here, but exactly what happened the last time most of Europe lurched that way? Edit: I should probably temper that by saying nationalist, isolationist and authoritarian, rather than right wing per se. Yes absolutely, I've actually started shifting back to the right again myself over the last year or so, every time I see an Owen Jones or a another gay rights story on TV it seems to send me a little further. Why wouldn't I want us to lurch to the right given my views? The National Socialist Workers Party you mean? Let's be honest one of the biggest cons in history has been portraying them as 'right wing', apart from the genocide they werent and Marxist politicians across Europe have engaged in far worse crimes.
Buce Posted 19 February 2014 Posted 19 February 2014 Yes absolutely, I've actually started shifting back to the right again myself over the last year or so, even time I see an Owen Jones or a another gay rights story on TV it seems to send me a little further. Why wouldn't I want us to lurch to the right given my views? The National Socialist Workers Party you mean? Let's be honest one of the biggest cons in history has been portraying them as 'right wing', apart from the genocide they werent and Marxist politicians across Europe have engaged in far worse crimes. Apart from the genocide? Oh, that insignificant thing..
Guest MattP Posted 19 February 2014 Posted 19 February 2014 Apart from the genocide? Oh, that insignificant thing.. Didn't happen anyway
leicsmac Posted 19 February 2014 Posted 19 February 2014 Yes absolutely, I've actually started shifting back to the right again myself over the last year or so, even time I see an Owen Jones or a another gay rights story on TV it seems to send me a little further. Why wouldn't I want us to lurch to the right given my views? The National Socialist Workers Party you mean? Let's be honest one of the biggest cons in history has been portraying them as 'right wing', apart from the genocide they werent and Marxist politicians across Europe have engaged in far worse crimes. Quite right, hence my qualifier regarding authoritarian and nationalist rather than right wing (shame I first posted without really thinking that one through). Also agree that authoritarian regimes both right wing and left wing have been responsible for some truly fvkced up episodes in humanity. All that said, for me cultural (as opposed to financial, which is a different matter) right wing thought seems indelibly linked to nationalism for me, and while there's nothing wrong with being proud of your country it tends to also come with rather unfortunate side effects in many (but by no means all) individuals...and having that pop up across Europe could create tension between countries of a rather unpleasant kind.
Webbo Posted 19 February 2014 Posted 19 February 2014 Quite right, hence my qualifier regarding authoritarian and nationalist rather than right wing (shame I first posted without really thinking that one through). Also agree that authoritarian regimes both right wing and left wing have been responsible for some truly fvkced up episodes in humanity. All that said, for me cultural (as opposed to financial, which is a different matter) right wing thought seems indelibly linked to nationalism for me, and while there's nothing wrong with being proud of your country it tends to also come with rather unfortunate side effects in many (but by no means all) individuals...and having that pop up across Europe could create tension between countries of a rather unpleasant kind. Nationalism isn't necessarily right wing. The Soviet Union was as nationalistic as anywhere. For me right wing means small govt, individuality, free speech and free market economics.There's nothing inherently racist or nationalistic about it.
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