Pay Day Loans

[Rincewind]

Stay clear of them no matter how desperate you are Another tragic death. Worked all his life as a milkman until contracting an illness that could lead to cancer. Somehow got into finacial trouble while on JSA. Even though he was ill he still did charity work. Sold off all his possessions to pay off loans. Eventually took an overdose of sleeping pills leaving nothing in his bank account. His son and daughter still received texts and phone calls re repayments after his death. What crime did he commit to deserve the death penalty? Like his daughter said cigarettes  and alcohol ads are banned from TV yet her children aged five and 10 can recite the Wonga ad. They said he grew up at a time when it was taught to look after money and he told nobody about how bad his debts were.

This is about payday loans not politics.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/ian-jordan-suicide-they-were-chasing-to-see-when-they-were-going-to-get-their-money-back-9638754.html

[Soar Fox]

I would never use one myself as luckily I'd be able to go to close friends or family if I'm really struggling financially. I know not everyone could do that though.

But if they are used correctly though they could help tied people over for a week or two if in desperate need. It's when people become reliant on them which is when you can get yourself in trouble.

Although my mum who works in a bank said that if you ever go for a mortgage and they see that you've used a payday loan company they will more than likely reject your application.

[Rincewind]

His son said he did not want them stopped altogether and said same as you they are fine for those that can pay them off, But he wants more regulations on the amount and the hounding of anyone who may have taken one out. There have been some measures brought in. A flat rate charge for a shorter period and some companies are willing to change TBF.

 

Actually part of the funding DNO is hoping to get is for money management for those on low incomes.

 

Does anyone know what T.R.U.C,E stands for as in running your household finances? They are the order that you make payments in and who to pay first. So for example as a starter T=Taxes. If you do not pay them you could be taken to court. Now what about the rest?

[Tielemans63]

They're pure evil as far as I'm concerned. I'm amazed they are allowed to exist.

Yes, they can tied someone over until they next get paid but there's never any justification for charging 2000% interest no matter the loan period.

[Sir Fynwy]

Licensed loan sharks that the government can't be bothered to tackle

[Steven]

Licensed loan sharks that the government can't be bothered to tackle

... or don't want to.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/top-tory-funder-runs-highcost-loans-company-8656356.html

[Rincewind]

... or don't want to.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/top-tory-funder-runs-highcost-loans-company-8656356.html

I was trying to avoid that direction.

[MooseBreath]

Licensed loan sharks that the government can't be bothered to tackle

Apart from George Osborne ordering the FCA to undertake a thorough review and step up regulations of course. Just a couple of weeks ago the proposed regulations came out and are estimated to put a third of the industry out of business, while the rest will have to make do with regulations so stringent that evidence from abroad suggests it will likely push people back into the hands of real illegal loan sharks (woohoo what a fine victory).

But hey look an emotive article in the independent. Let's ignore what has actually already been done by the government and use a dead man as a shield behind which we'll take a few more pot shots at the tories. Stay classy, lefties.

[dsr-burnley]

They're pure evil as far as I'm concerned. I'm amazed they are allowed to exist.

Yes, they can tied someone over until they next get paid but there's never any justification for charging 2000% interest no matter the loan period.

If you lend someone £40 on condition that at the end of the week they pay you back and buy you a drink, you're charging 2000% interest a.p.r.  On short-term loans, where an admin fee is counted as interest for apr purposes, the numbers are meaningless.

 

What they need to stop is the vast accumulations of admin fees, where you pay back double the loan and still owe more than you started with.  There used to be a criminal offence of usury, lending at unreasonable rates.  It shouldn't be too difficult to reintroduce, I wouldn't have thought.

[Sir Fynwy]

Apart from George Osborne ordering the FCA to undertake a thorough review and step up regulations of course. Just a couple of weeks ago the proposed regulations came out and are estimated to put a third of the industry out of business, while the rest will have to make do with regulations so stringent that evidence from abroad suggests it will likely push people back into the hands of real illegal loan sharks (woohoo what a fine victory).

But hey look an emotive article in the independent. Let's ignore what has actually already been done by the government and use a dead man as a shield behind which we'll take a few more pot shots at the tories. Stay classy, lefties.

Yes, regulate far too late, no problem here, it's not like it's been obvious there is a problem for years. Proposed regulations that will be kicked into the long grass because regulating any form of banking will destroy this nations economy. It's not left wing to expect businesses to be run ethically. Making everything a right vs left argument makes you look fairly silly.

[FoxesAreBlue]

I would never use one myself as luckily I'd be able to go to close friends or family if I'm really struggling financially. I know not everyone could do that though.

But if they are used correctly though they could help tied people over for a week or two if in desperate need. It's when people become reliant on them which is when you can get yourself in trouble.

Although my mum who works in a bank said that if you ever go for a mortgage and they see that you've used a payday loan company they will more than likely reject your application.

I hope your mums not the mortgage advisor then, I have used them once or twice in the past and had no problems whatsoever getting a mortgage despite things being "tight" after it was approved and I bought my property.

[MooseBreath]

Yes, regulate far too late, no problem here, it's not like it's been obvious there is a problem for years. Proposed regulations that will be kicked into the long grass because regulating any form of banking will destroy this nations economy. It's not left wing to expect businesses to be run ethically. Making everything a right vs left argument makes you look fairly silly.

Point 1, I disagree. It is a relatively new industry. It takes time to undertake a proper review of these things if you want to be sure you're making the right decisions. As I said, evidence from abroad suggests that the proposed regulations are too strict, that they will push people back into the hands of criminals.

Point 2, pure conjecture. Not worth responding to.

Point 3, you brought politics into the discussion by attempting to use this tragic tale of a man who has lost his life as an excuse to make an ignorant remark concerning the current government. So let's not start on who looks silliest here. I could use a lot stronger words than that for people who use tragedy as a cover for snide political remarks.

[Sir Fynwy]

Point 1: loan sharking and banking are one of the oldest industries, new clothes on an old product don't change usury.

Point 2: They are hardly breaking sweat trying to control the industry.

Point 3: I've never mentioned the story in the paper, that was another poster and I said government, not just current lot

[Soar Fox]

I hope your mums not the mortgage advisor then, I have used them once or twice in the past and had no problems whatsoever getting a mortgage despite things being "tight" after it was approved and I bought my property.

Maybe different companies are tighter depending on who they are.

My sister and her boyfriend recently got a mortgage through nationwide and apparently they were really tight even checking how often they ate out. Whereas I went to a private broker and he didn't really look at anything like that.

[MooseBreath]

Well if you're suggesting the government should have proactively regulated the likes of wonga before they even existed on the basis that a form of loan shark did already exist then OK. Not quite sure how you expect that to have worked, but OK. Maybe in that case labour should have set up the proactive regulations? We all know about their recent track record when it comes to banking sector regulation, of course. Flawless.

I'm willing to bet the proposed regulations will come into force as planned in January and if there is any watering down, it will be minor, and will be intended to mitigate the risk of people getting themselves in more trouble in the illegal market.

[Rincewind]

I posted the story to highlight the problem some people have budgeting in times of austerity. I never mentioned any political party or party member. This was a man who had worked all his life and found it hard to manage when his income was reduced. Nothing more nothing less.  There is an increase of  working low income using them and it is vital those people are helped mainly in an advisory capacity.

I see nothing wrong in that The fact is that are people out there in the real world that may have learning disabilitis or mental illness or even come from a home where budgeting was non existent so have never learned how to manage household bills  like the rest of us. These re the ones loan compamys prew upon and therefore need support not mockery.

 

When my pay cheque was late arriving a couple of times during the last few months of my last job I went to a payday loan place. I had hell of a job because I wanted a pay cheque cashed and they could not verify that it was genuine and said it had not gone out the bosses account. Suffice to say the company went into liquidation and declared bankrupt a few months later without any warning.

[MooseBreath]

Nobody is mocking them ken, not yet. Apparently 1.6m have used them since they became mainstream. A small number of them will have been the genuinely vulnerable. Some will have been normal people who just couldn't get an overdraft or a credit card for whatever reason. The rest will have been idiots, let's be honest. It's not as if the apr is hidden in the small print. Some people are just idiots.

[Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo]

I posted the story to highlight the problem some people have budgeting in times of austerity. I never mentioned any political party or party member. This was a man who had worked all his life and found it hard to manage when his income was reduced. Nothing more nothing less.  There is an increase of  working low income using them and it is vital those people are helped mainly in an advisory capacity.

I see nothing wrong in that The fact is that are people out there in the real world that may have learning disabilitis or mental illness or even come from a home where budgeting was non existent so have never learned how to manage household bills  like the rest of us. These re the ones loan compamys prew upon and therefore need support not mockery.

Accidental rep. Consider it one for "compamys" or "prew"

The business practices of these companies is pretty shocking but while it is legal, surely people must have to treat their situation with a bit of common sense? If you look and see advertised 2000% APR, surely you think "nuts to that"? They even tell you the costs up front, if you want to use their services then you should make sure you can definitely pay back in the time you plan. I'm not mocking anyone as I'm lucky to have never been so far in the shit before to even contemplate using this sort of loan but sometimes people have to take responsibility for their own actions. I think people are suckered into the cute puppets and see "Get £1,000 in 2 minutes" and don't even stop to contemplate how much this ends up costing when they don't budget for the initial repayments (most, not all)

There already are plenty of places for free money and budgeting advice and I don't think anyone is mocking people who have gotten into a pickle. The MA service is free and is unavoidable - they advertise everywhere. Moneysavingexpert too.

[Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo]

Nobody is mocking them ken, not yet. Apparently 1.6m have used them since they became mainstream. A small number of them will have been the genuinely vulnerable. Some will have been normal people who just couldn't get an overdraft or a credit card for whatever reason. The rest will have been idiots, let's be honest. It's not as if the apr is hidden in the small print. Some people are just idiots.

Exactly this. Why does it feel like everyone wants people to feel sorry for them these days? That's most certainly not aimed at the man who killed himself, that's tragic, but I still think in his case it's unfair to blame his death on a loan company. Surely most people would swallow their pride and ask everyone they knew for a loan or declare bankruptcy before thinking of taking their own life? Now it sounds like I'm pitching the idea of putting screening in for people with suicidal tendencies for these things. This kind of discussion is draining

Long story short - don't touch what you can't afford. If you have no guaranteed source of income, don't use a payday loan. Don't kill yourself either as it affects others emotionally and financially.

Edit. That last bit sounded harsh.

[Rincewind]

Answer to my question. What  are the essentials that should be taken care of  before luxuries like fags and booze (yes I have included booze)

 

Taxes if not paid you could be taken to court

Rent or mortgage not paid lose home

Utilities Gas electric water No electric if cut off

Credit Debit cards loans store cards finance you do not want bailiffs knocking on your door

EVERYTHING ELSE if you have money left food cleaning stuff etc then booze fags and football last I'm afraid.

 

The first four are in no particular order but they are the essentials It makes it easier to remember if said as TRUCE when helping people move into their own place for the first time/ It is part of the Tenancy training Action Homeless do.

 

Does anyone disagree with TRUCE and  the advice?

[Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo]

That "everything else" is a bit of a copout but I'm dead against forced acronyms, everyone makes them and they don't normally work

However that makes sense.

I'd class essentials as shelter, water usage and food. Food can be had free at food banks, even if you have to pay you can eat incredibly cheaply if you're not fussy. Water is pretty fairly priced when metred and you can always use less. That just leaves rent/mortgage which always requires planning.

The trouble is most people these days are idiots and would gladly carry on using an iPhone, Sky TV, smoke, drink, eat out, leave electrics and lights on, maintain a larger car etc (things they are accustomed to and wouldn't see as luxuries) without realising they can't afford the lifestyle. Not everyone but definitely most in this situation. They can be educated maybe but some people need to learn through their own mistakes so... In a weird way, maybe we need these payday lenders? And when I say we, I mean everyone who wouldn't use them

[Rincewind]

Accidental rep. Consider it one for "compamys" or "prew"

The business practices of these companies is pretty shocking but while it is legal, surely people must have to treat their situation with a bit of common sense? If you look and see advertised 2000% APR, surely you think "nuts to that"? They even tell you the costs up front, if you want to use their services then you should make sure you can definitely pay back in the time you plan. I'm not mocking anyone as I'm lucky to have never been so far in the shit before to even contemplate using this sort of loan but sometimes people have to take responsibility for their own actions. I think people are suckered into the cute puppets and see "Get £1,000 in 2 minutes" and don't even stop to contemplate how much this ends up costing when they don't budget for the initial repayments (most, not all)

There already are plenty of places for free money and budgeting advice and I don't think anyone is mocking people who have gotten into a pickle. The MA service is free and is unavoidable - they advertise everywhere. Moneysavingexpert too.

I'll take any rep I can now a days. Yes you would think people would be sensible and check up first. But unfortunately desperation leads to desperate measures. To use Moneyadvice online you need a PC and if you are down to your last few quid it may not be the first thing on your mind. Yes people are taken in. They may have lost a well paid office job gone from 1k a week to £100.

They may have though getting a job was easy. Their wife leaves because of the money shortage. He starts drinking more and before he knows it he is behind with a mortgage, He takes out a loan thinking he ill get a job soon and you know the rest.

Seriously there are places CAB for instance but they are overstretched and they deal with the stable door after the horse has bolted. A lot of people in these situations are also people just out of hostels who  have little budgeting skills (it may be the reason that they were there) so before they leave wold it not be a good idea to give training? or for anyone that is not keen on a govt run centre for advice. That is where the independan5 one omes in. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/giraffe-being-transported-trailer-dies-3944455ointing them in the right direction and offering mentoring after,

The above scenario was a little naf but similar has happened There is always rough along with the smoothe and you never know what is next. You could fall over hit your head, develop a brain tumour and before you know it you are ga ga living on ESA and being told to find a job when you have lost the ability to find the toilet on your own. Then Moose will say it is your own fault for falling over and at the time you were most likely drunk and high on cocaine so only have yourself to blame and stop b;aming others just to get free money for shirking and avoiding going work.

Or ords to that effect. Just kidding Moose.

[Rincewind]

That "everything else" is a bit of a copout but I'm dead against forced acronyms, everyone makes them and they don't normally work

However that makes sense.

I'd class essentials as shelter, water usage and food. Food can be had free at food banks, even if you have to pay you can eat incredibly cheaply if you're not fussy. Water is pretty fairly priced when metred and you can always use less. That just leaves rent/mortgage which always requires planning.

The trouble is most people these days are idiots and would gladly carry on using an iPhone, Sky TV, smoke, drink, eat out, leave electrics and lights on, maintain a larger car etc (things they are accustomed to and wouldn't see as luxuries) without realising they can't afford the lifestyle. Not everyone but definitely most in this situation. They can be educated maybe but some people need to learn through their own mistakes so... In a weird way, maybe we need these payday lenders? And when I say we, I mean everyone who wouldn't use them

I agree with most of that. The woman I volunteer with has been homeless and teaches Tenancy sessions. She has asked the group which are the items you would first take in a new flat. They have said TV mobile laptop etc and she said it does her head in and ha to say No no no they are luxuries not essentials you can do without a mobile but not food.

[Strokes]

Its tragic when someone is so desperate, they knowingly put themselves further into trouble, just for a little reprieve. Its not very smart obviously but when you can't see light at the end of the tunnel financially, logic can be a hard thing to rely on.

That said, most people who get themselves into bother with these disgraceful companies, really do it through idiocy. There was a piece on the radio a few months back and it was embarrassing what some people considered necessities.

If you can't give up luxuries when the belt tightens, you will always fall foul to predators like these. Legally or not.

[Haydos]

Mugs game.