David Guiza Posted 18 November 2014 Posted 18 November 2014 This doesn't come as a great surprise to me, but it's usually something that most people have an opinion on - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/higher/tuition-fees-three-quarters-of-students-wont-be-able-to-pay-off-their-debt-9866446.html. I finished University in the summer and have since gone straight into full time work; i'm not earning a large enough salary to begin paying back my debt just yet, but I'd like to think it'll happen within the near future. I'm not at all surprised that 3/4 of students never will pay it back though, for thousands of reasons - ranging from the people who only got to Univeristy for a 3/4 year break, to ridiculous courses that surely have no baring on anyones careers whatsoever. When I was at Univeristy I used to have fairly regular, albeit in jest, debates with my mates, whom were already in the working world, about being a 'student dosser' and avoiding the 'real working world' etc, but most of them understood that to get anywhere in a career like Law you need a degree, or at least to pay for study/exams etc. However there of course many who disagree with the loan system entirely, and think students should effectively pay for your own education up front if that's what you want to persue. I could never buy into that as I believe it would only revert to reinforcing the tory class system of the rich getting the good jobs and the poor getting the rest. Of couse there are plenty of jobs that exist without the requirement of a University education, but the vast majority of highly paid jobs in todays world generally do require the minimum of a degree, if not further study. How else would the bright minds of poor families further their career without Government funded further education, aside from working long hours and damaging their studies as a result? I personally would lower the fees, or even attempt to follow in Germany's footsteps, but I do also think that more needs to be looked at in terms of aspects such as degree choice, chances of employment afterwards etc, as it seems far too easy to waste 3 years of your life for no little to no benefit currently.
The Doctor Posted 18 November 2014 Posted 18 November 2014 No surprise - for a three year degree now you're talking a loan of around 40k for tuition and living costs - when you're only paying back a few percent of your salary, and only that above 21k, even most graduate jobs won't have high enough salaries for that to make up 40k in 25 years. Of course if we started looking at higher education of some form as a necessity rather than a privilege then that wouldn't be a problem. Still, at least we're not America.
DennisNedry Posted 18 November 2014 Posted 18 November 2014 I'm not a student, but this doesn't really bother me that most of the debt isn't repaid. University shouldn't be free but it should be a hell of a lot cheaper than what it is.
AndWhat? Posted 18 November 2014 Posted 18 November 2014 It's not even real debt anyway. Natwest didn't want to know about it during my mortgage application!
MooseBreath Posted 18 November 2014 Posted 18 November 2014 Well that's good news for students, but bad news for whoever holds the debt. I think I'm right in saying that the government sells the debt on to private companies, so it's not a risk to public finances. Doesn't seem like much to be concerned about.
ousefox Posted 18 November 2014 Posted 18 November 2014 No surprise - for a three year degree now you're talking a loan of around 40k for tuition and living costs - when you're only paying back a few percent of your salary, and only that above 21k, even most graduate jobs won't have high enough salaries for that to make up 40k in 25 years. Of course if we started looking at higher education of some form as a necessity rather than a privilege then that wouldn't be a problem. Still, at least we're not America. There's also inflation + 3% on the loan that students have to pay too. It's a weird system, meaning the rich (who can pay for it upfront) will pay less for their education than somebody who takes out a loan and gets a good enough job to pay the full thing back. Many people who I've read comment on student loans in the past on here and other places believed this system was a good idea as it would stop people doing 'doss degrees'. Well these are more likely to be the people that never pay the loan back and still get all the advantages of the student life and maintenance loans. I think I read recently that the government aren't actually going to gain any money from the introduction of this system too which is ridiculous and arguably hitting the middle (or future middle) again.
ADK Posted 18 November 2014 Posted 18 November 2014 The whole thing was engineered to be this way. It is no surprise to anyone. No doubt this will now be used to stifle opportunities for young people.
Guest Kopfkino Posted 18 November 2014 Posted 18 November 2014 To the graduate it's just a graduate tax in effect, the debt has little impact on them apart from a little extra out of their wage packet if they're earning enough. It's a shame that it's not stopped people going to crap unis, doing pointless degrees and just having a 3 year social
ADK Posted 18 November 2014 Posted 18 November 2014 To the graduate it's just a graduate tax in effect, the debt has little impact on them apart from a little extra out of their wage packet if they're earning enough. It's a shame that it's not stopped people going to crap unis, doing pointless degrees and just having a 3 year social Didn't you say you were 18? How would you know what degrees are "pointless" and which unis are "crap"?
Guest Kopfkino Posted 18 November 2014 Posted 18 November 2014 Didn't you say you were 18? How would you know what degrees are "pointless" and which unis are "crap"? I don't see the relevance of age in that. Well having been through the process of researching my options and applying to uni this year, I have a decent grasp on what is decent and what isn't, the doors that are opened and closed depending on where you go and what you do. Maybe no degree is entirely pointless but there's plenty of data out there to draw conclusions from about degrees and unis.
ADK Posted 18 November 2014 Posted 18 November 2014 I don't see the relevance of age in that. Well having been through the process of researching my options and applying to uni this year, I have a decent grasp on what is decent and what isn't, the doors that are opened and closed depending on where you go and what you do. Maybe no degree is entirely pointless but there's plenty of data out there to draw conclusions from about degrees and unis. I don't think you do to be honest. It's the old thing about knowledge and wisdom. Still, it comes down to opinion one way or another.
Darkon84 Posted 18 November 2014 Posted 18 November 2014 Didn't you say you were 18? How would you know what degrees are "pointless" and which unis are "crap"? It's not rocket science to realise that a Law degree would be far more valuable than say, doing Photography.
ADK Posted 18 November 2014 Posted 18 November 2014 It's not rocket science to realise that a Law degree would be far more valuable than say, doing Photography. Except that statement could be entirely wrong, although you are correct it is not rocket science.
bovril Posted 18 November 2014 Posted 18 November 2014 It's not rocket science to realise that a Law degree would be far more valuable than say, doing Photography. Valuable to whom?
bovril Posted 18 November 2014 Posted 18 November 2014 Except that statement could be entirely wrong, although you are correct it is not rocket science. I had a friend at Uni who studied Aerospace Engineering, oh the laughs we had!
Guest Kopfkino Posted 18 November 2014 Posted 18 November 2014 I don't think you do to be honest. It's the old thing about knowledge and wisdom. Still, it comes down to opinion one way or another. I'm pretty sure that I do have a good grasp on that. Indeed there are many grad schemes that you just need a 2.1 for so in effect your uni and course make little difference but the data about things like Tourism Management at the University of Chichester aren't too favourable It's not rocket science to realise that a Law degree would be far more valuable than say, doing Photography. I would disagree with that. I'd argue that Law from somewhere like Edge isn't far more valuable than Photography from St Martins College and the London uni of arts.
bovril Posted 18 November 2014 Posted 18 November 2014 Depends if you want to be a lawyer or a photographer surely!
ADK Posted 18 November 2014 Posted 18 November 2014 Depends if you want to be a lawyer or a photographer surely! Apparently it's not obvious.
leicsmac Posted 18 November 2014 Posted 18 November 2014 I had a friend at Uni who studied Aerospace Engineering, oh the laughs we had! Oi! We do have a sense of humour you know!
MooseBreath Posted 18 November 2014 Posted 18 November 2014 The whole thing was engineered to be this way. It is no surprise to anyone. No doubt this will now be used to stifle opportunities for young people. How will this stifle opportunities, Andrew? As far as I can see having access to student finance that you probably won't even have to pay back seems to increase opportunities, no?
bovril Posted 18 November 2014 Posted 18 November 2014 Oi! We do have a sense of humour you know! No, I meant laughing at his degree (it's not rocket science etc etc). It was funny for about a week.
DennisNedry Posted 18 November 2014 Posted 18 November 2014 To be fair ADK some degrees are pretty useless because many people choose them without knowing what career they actually want.They just think University is what they should be doing after A Levels. I know somebody who did 'American Studies' and has no inclination to ever go to America. She just wanted to go to Uni for the experience.
ADK Posted 18 November 2014 Posted 18 November 2014 How will this stifle opportunities, Andrew? As far as I can see having access to student finance that you probably won't even have to pay back seems to increase opportunities, no? I think it will be used as a bargaining tool to impose restrictions on students or raise fees further.
ADK Posted 18 November 2014 Posted 18 November 2014 To be fair ADK some degrees are pretty useless because many people choose them without knowing what career they actually want.They just think University is what they should be doing after A Levels. I know somebody who did 'American Studies' and has no inclination to ever go to America. She just wanted to go to Uni for the experience. I don't see that as wrong though. Unless they thought they would earn as much as a doctor. Or be the next US president.
leicsmac Posted 18 November 2014 Posted 18 November 2014 No, I meant laughing at his degree (it's not rocket science etc etc). It was funny for about a week. Ah yes - that's true. We've heard all different variations on that one possible, I think.
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