ithuriel Posted 27 August 2006 Share Posted 27 August 2006 paddy kisnorbo obviously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 27 August 2006 Author Share Posted 27 August 2006 Statistics can help, especially statistics that cover a long period, but they don't necessarily tell the full story and it is not something I would necessarily pursue in relation to Tiatto. Applied to Sheehan, statistics in respect of results per first team match he was involved in might suggest that his would be the first name on the teamsheet but that is no more convincing than the Tiatto example. However if someone said a striker scored 25 goals a season for three years than might encourage me to give him a job, that a player was 85% successful with his passing over a lengthy period or a goalkeeper kept 75% clean sheets over, say, 12 months. It's all a question of examining the statistics and deciding whether they offer an insight or whether they somehow paint a false or inconclusive picture. Tiatto's assists are to be welcomed. But is that two assists in three games or how many assists over the last 12 months? Funny things statistics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Posted 27 August 2006 Share Posted 27 August 2006 Good points Thracian but surely we should be judging player's on this seasons performances rather than last? Just like many people have with Johnson, Stearman etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l444ry Posted 27 August 2006 Share Posted 27 August 2006 Could be that Kisnorbo wasn't as bad as the ludicrous critisicm he received at the time. He was continually being left badly exposed playing in a critical position, lacking in confidence and playing in the worst team in Leicester's history. Not that I am suggesting he should, but if he played that position again he'd probably make a few people eat their words. It is very convenient for his doubters to think that Kisnorbo's miraculous conversion to being a decent player is as simple as being played "out of position." Gets their bad judgement of the hook, so to speak!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 27 August 2006 Author Share Posted 27 August 2006 Good points Thracian but surely we should be judging player's on this seasons performances rather than last? Just like many people have with Johnson, Stearman etc. I don't see why. You simply take the new season into account. For instance the injury Tiatto's already suffered makes me look to the times he was injured last season as well because it's a factor in his reliability. It makes me concerned and would make me want to examine the facts closer if I were manager. But in judging Fryatt and Hume's slowish start to the season goals wise it imight be relevant to look at their successful contribution last season and wonder if there are factors working against them so far this time and to consider these factors in forming a judgement. Then take the goalkeepers. My instinct is to say Logan's the better keeper but Henderson has kept two clean sheets and conceded only four goals in five matches which is not a convincing argument for change. Statistics are there to help offer guidelines/ideas/information/trends rather than to make decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Posted 27 August 2006 Share Posted 27 August 2006 Kisnorbo had enough games at Centre midfield to show us what he could do, and what he shown us that he wasn't good enough to play there and this wasn't his natural position. I don't care what anyone says, not one player can play that bad week in week out, and then go and play in a different position and become a saint (more or less) by playing so well. His performances since RK has took over have proved he his a centre back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 27 August 2006 Author Share Posted 27 August 2006 Could be that Kisnorbo wasn't as bad as the ludicrous critisicm he received at the time. He was continually being left badly exposed playing in a critical position, lacking in confidence and playing in the worst team in Leicester's history. Not that I am suggesting he should, but if he played that position again he'd probably make a few people eat their words. It is very convenient for his doubters to think that Kisnorbo's miraculous conversion to being a decent player is as simple as being played "out of position." Gets their bad judgement of the hook, so to speak!!! I doubt he'd make anyone eat their words in midfield because the thing that let him down, his passing, is still a weakness at centre-back even despite his brilliant defending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l444ry Posted 27 August 2006 Share Posted 27 August 2006 Kisnorbo had enough games at Centre midfield to show us what he could do, and what he shown us that he wasn't good enough to play there and this wasn't his natural position. I don't care what anyone says, not one player can play that bad week in week out, and then go and play in a different position and become a saint (more or less) by playing so well. His performances since RK has took over have proved he his a centre back. Precisely, Bert. It was Levein who should be judged as a useless manager and not Kisnorbo who was doing the best he could at the time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcfc_jme Posted 27 August 2006 Share Posted 27 August 2006 Levein or Taylor: who made the worse signings and ultimately did worse at the club?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Posted 27 August 2006 Share Posted 27 August 2006 Levein was an astute buisness man, some good cheap buys, Fryatt Hume etc, cut our wage bill by quite a fair bit but was a shit manager. Taylor spent the money because he knew he was always going to get more. With the exception of Walker i'd say the majority of his buys where shocking. His start here was excellent, but the players said that they seen him more as a mate - which gives me the impression that he wasn't as harsh as O'Neill would've been. E.g They would've called O'Neill, gaffer, whereas after hearing how the players thought of Taylor, this probably wouldn't have happened, small i know, but when managers lose the dressing room, time runs out for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcfc_jme Posted 27 August 2006 Share Posted 27 August 2006 Levein was an astute buisness man, some good cheap buys, Fryatt Hume etc, cut our wage bill by quite a fair bit but was a shit manager. Taylor spent the money because he knew he was always going to get more. With the exception of Walker i'd say the majority of his buys where shocking. His start here was excellent, but the players said that they seen him more as a mate - which gives me the impression that he wasn't as harsh as O'Neill would've been. E.g They would've called O'Neill, gaffer, whereas after hearing how the players thought of Taylor, this probably wouldn't have happened, small i know, but when managers lose the dressing room, time runs out for them. Probably one of the main reasons somebody like Sir Alex has had so much success over such a long period of time then, cos if there's one thing that he doesn't lose, it's the respect of and authority in the dressing room. (and btw, I am in no way whatsoever comparing Sir Alex and Man Utd to PT or CL at city) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Posted 27 August 2006 Share Posted 27 August 2006 Probably one of the main reasons somebody like Sir Alex has had so much success over such a long period of time then, cos if there's one thing that he doesn't lose, it's the respect of and authority in the dressing room. (and btw, I am in no way whatsoever comparing Sir Alex and Man Utd to PT or CL at city) Exactly, and why's that?? Because he doesn't take no shit off anyone and always demands the best and isn't afraid to make hasty decisions, letting two of the best players to grace world football leave when they're in their prime just proves this. If you show authority, people will respect you. This could be linked to the RK/COG incident, RK stamped his authority on COG, and look what COG has returned with - a goal and two good performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swedging Posted 27 August 2006 Share Posted 27 August 2006 Probably one of the main reasons somebody like Sir Alex has had so much success over such a long period of time then, cos if there's one thing that he doesn't lose, it's the respect of and authority in the dressing room. One of the great joys of football is seeing how increasingly unhinged AF has become as he tries to maintain that authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcfc_jme Posted 27 August 2006 Share Posted 27 August 2006 Exactly, and why's that?? Because he doesn't take no shit off anyone and always demands the best and isn't afraid to make hasty decisions, letting two of the best players to grace world football leave when they're in their prime just proves this. If you show authority, people will respect you. This could be linked to the RK/COG incident, RK stamped his authority on COG, and look what COG has returned with - a goal and two good performances. Referring to Beckham and RVN in this I take it?? I guess that sends out a huge message to the rest of his squad and actually makes most of his players fear getting on his bad side, as they know they aren't assured of being in the squad, and they will be thrown out if he sees fit.. As for RK, he seems to have worked wonders on COG.. Whatever the reasons for his disappearance, since he re-emerged, he seems hungrier and more prepared to put the effort in.. RK must be pretty well respected in that sense, because his handling of Hume has had exactly the same effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultra Posted 27 August 2006 Share Posted 27 August 2006 One of the great joys of football is seeing how increasingly unhinged AF has become as he tries to maintain that authority. Still top of the Premiership, despite missing several of his first-choice players. Doesn't seem very "unhinged" to me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Posted 27 August 2006 Share Posted 27 August 2006 Referring to Beckham and RVN in this I take it?? I guess that sends out a huge message to the rest of his squad and actually makes most of his players fear getting on his bad side, as they know they aren't assured of being in the squad, and they will be thrown out if he sees fit.. As for RK, he seems to have worked wonders on COG.. Whatever the reasons for his disappearance, since he re-emerged, he seems hungrier and more prepared to put the effort in.. RK must be pretty well respected in that sense, because his handling of Hume has had exactly the same effect Yes i am and that paragraph is exactly what i mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcfc_jme Posted 27 August 2006 Share Posted 27 August 2006 Yes i am and that paragraph is exactly what i mean. Treu. The sale of DB shocked I think just about everybody connected with football, as nobody thought Ferguson would actually go through with it and get rid... But seeing that happen, everybody knew that the writing was on the wall for RVN when he fell out with AF, so it came as no real suprise when he was sold either... I guess the main reason people are actually bothered about crossing Ferguson in the dressing room is the fact that he goes absolutely crackers at people, he throws (or kicks) boots in the dressing room, and he takes no prisoners, meaning the players are more prepared to play for each other and get the win for HIM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveyJ Posted 27 August 2006 Share Posted 27 August 2006 Just wondered, does anyone remember a greater transformation of a player's rating among City fans than Kisnorbo's. He was one of the two or three most reviled squad members as a midfield player yet now would probably be first name of the teamsheet for every follower. Who else can fans remember as turning opinion around so dramatically? Haha. I just had that exact thought and was going to post before I found this. I was reading about McCarthy and Kisnorbo on other threads, and I remembered how almost a year ago I couldn't have cared less if he never played for Leicester again. Increadibly he has turned it around so much that he is one of the best players I think we have, and is definitely first in the team sheet. To be slightly pessimistic one imagines that my opinion could always swing back (and aren't first impressions usually right?....... I hope not!). However Kisnorbo certainly deserves the praise he gets and more for 'tunring-it-round' not just so quickly but also so well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultra Posted 27 August 2006 Share Posted 27 August 2006 Just wondered, does anyone remember a greater transformation of a player's rating among City fans than Kisnorbo's. He was one of the two or three most reviled squad members as a midfield player yet now would probably be first name of the teamsheet for every follower. Who else can fans remember as turning opinion around so dramatically? I can remember Jon Sammels and later Eddie Kelly turning around some very hostile crowds in the 70s. And I also recall Jimmy Willis being hounded off the pitch in tears by a vicious Kop, only to re-emerge two years later as a Wembley hero. But of course, the all-time classic has to be MON. He went from villain to icon in a matter of weeks in 1996. He'd know even more than Kisnorbo how fickle some FOXES can be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maccfox Posted 28 August 2006 Share Posted 28 August 2006 Levein or Taylor: who made the worse signings and ultimately did worse at the club?? Can't believe this question even needs asking, Levein did a lot of very good things for our club including getting rid of Mickeys middle aged mercenaries, bringing on the young guns we are currently raving about, not to mention signing the likes of Paddy x 2 and hume and Fryatt As for that W***** Ta*lor dont even get me started. Since i started watching City in 75 Ta*lor is the man i hate the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lildave3 Posted 28 August 2006 Share Posted 28 August 2006 You will all start to praise Danny Tiatto soon aswell i think he has been good so far but most of you still rate him with 4/5 just because of his reputation I hate tiatto, hes rubbish, never stays on the wing where he is supposed to be staiyng, gets too many yellow cards and is always injured. waste of space if you ask me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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