Guesty

He's got 9 goals and 7 assists. More goal involvements than any other player in the squad, including James. Without Winks it wouldn't have made much difference. Without Fatawu we'd probably have at least 10 fewer points - if not more.

Talking of El Khannouss. Mad that in 2 games El Khannouss has 2 assists for us this season. Yet Mavididi only has 1 in nearly 40 appearances. Bringing it back to Fatawu: we'd already be down if not for his form in the first half of the season. But he now looks a different player. He's just counting the minutes till this season is over and he can leave.

One thing about Rowett is he won't be getting a pay off. Other managers have to stay quiet to keep their pay off. He can let rip. Guy's clearly out of his depth, but hopefully he's more honest about what this squad is really like.

He did say the Everton board vetoed some of his transfer recommendations. He said he had deals lined up for Andy Robertson and Maguire for £20 million - and Haaland for around £4 million - and Jonny Evans. That could have been us. Promoting Rudkin over him is probably the biggest mistake we've ever made.

He played for himself today. He shouldn't play again for us. It was embarrassing.

I'm curious as to where he ends up next season. Championship really is his level at best. He's the product of years ago when you had that one system player who's job was to just keep the ball moving and pass it to the actual talented players. He can't attack, he can't defend, he's just there. A pass completion merchant. When he was passing short balls to the likes of Kane, Son, Erickson and Dele Ali he looked okay. But as soon as you need more from him he can't do it. He's very limited.

I don't want the kids anywhere near this now. I want all the experienced pro's who have contributed to this to be there front and centre for the TV cameras. All these pros that thought they were too good for this league. You saw Hamza, Lascelles and Ayew kicking off today towards the end. As someone else said in the match thread. That isn't fight, it's petulance. They're embarrassed. And they can all own it now. Keep Rowett there too, with the same formation and s**t subs. It's like a walk of shame.

His subs alone are a sackable offence. You can blame some things on the players or the club. But his subs (lack of) are all on him.

Mukasa is just playing for himself and his highlight reel here.

Never seen a team so bad at set pieces. Such a bunch of weaklings.

I don't begrudge other teams success. But I'm not going to celebrate rivals achieving it either.

I think the biggest problem we've got is the last time we went to league 1 we bounced straight back - and a lot of happy clappers are expecting the same thing to happen again. They're indoctrinated and their ego won't let them admit they've backed the wrong horse.

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree and meet on the fact we both think Cooper and RvN were s**t managers. But it's always good to discuss differing opinions on here without it devolving into unpleasantness. Would just point out we actually made a 5.5 million loss on Coady - signed for 7.5, sold for 2 million.

I don't think even Rudkin knows what he's doing. He seems very reliant on certain agents. What he does do as DoF is have the final say and massively overpay on transfer fees and wages with no long-term strategy. I imagine it's a complete clownshow behind the scenes (they couldn't even send a fax on time). None of us truly know the full ins and outs. Just that our recruitment is some of the worst ever seen - and he's in charge of it. How you can keep breaking PSR and have multiple relegations with one the highest wage bills in the league is almost impressive in it's ineptitude.

Even here though. Under Enzo it's the club signing the players. Yet under Cooper, it's all on him. This is the way a lot of people look at it. You look at the club's signings under Enzo: Winks, Coady, Mavadidi and Cannon combined cost over £30 million. None of them have worked out long-term. Mads is the only player signed then who played well and has been sold for a big profit. Cooper's transfer window wasn't a blip in an otherwise spotless recruitment record. He was here for a few months and our transfers have been awful for years. We keep getting relegated with one of, if not the highest wage bills in the league. That's a long-term structural problem. Cooper said we needed experience. We probably did. This squad clearly had issues. We just signed the wrong players - or overpaid for them. None of us understood how bad this squad was back them - some people were saying we were a mid-table team. The same team absent of Vardy, El-Khannouss, Mads and N'didi now looks like it's getting relegated to League 1. I feel like I'm coming across as a Cooper fan here when I'm not. We'd probably have been relegated under him, he should never have been appointed, his football was turgid and he's not doing well at Brondby now. I just blame the club and Rudkin for our recruitment issues. And think RvN was a slightly worse manager.

I'm not wildly missing your point. Enzo wanted Sensi, so much so he came out and publicly said it - but we didn't sign him. If anything, it backs up my point that the club don't sign the players the manager wants. We could unfairly blame Enzo for wasting £7.5 million on Coady - or spending £10 million on Winks who's only played well for 7 months of his contract. That was big money in the championship, on players without much resale value and very questionable attitudes. You don't know Cooper was heavily involved. You've just assumed. He'd only just walked through the door. Even if he did have some involvement, it's Rudkin's choice to spend £20 million on Skipp. Cooper had Skipp and Ayew on the bench more than he started them - so he wasn't that keen. Cooper also doesn't get any credit from me for signing El-Khannouss either. I don't pick and choose depending on how much I like or rate the manager. The one constant is Rudkin - who has a history of massively overpaying and signing bang average players with no short or long-term strategy at all.

I don't think anyone is revising Cooper's time here. No one is saying he was a good manager. They're just saying RvN was worse. We set an English league top flight record for consecutive home games lost without scoring under RvN. That record had stood for over a 130 years. That's how bad RvN was. Even under Cooper's turgid football we were more competitive. That isn't revisionism, it's reality. If you blame Cooper solely for the transfers, then he's a much worse manager. But everything I've read/heard said that under Rodgers the board realised they could't allow a manager that much power anymore. Which is why Rodgers never got the rebuild he publicly cried out for. We sold Kasper and didn't replace him - just thought Danny Ward would do. We signed Coulibaly in January of last season on a 4 and half year deal - and clearly RvN didn't want him cause he didn't play him. We spent a big loan fee and wages on Odsonne Edourd and no one played him. Enzo rarely played Conor Coady despite us spending £7.5 million on him. In January of this season we got Joe Aribo on loan on big wages and we haven't played him. I could go on and on. Our recruitment team clearly get players our managers don't ask for. The fact managers are blamed for our inept recruitment is probably one of the reasons why we now appoint the likes of Cooper, RvN, Marti and Rowett. No one with any common sense or a good track-record is coming here and taking the blame for Rudkin's disastrous recruitment mistakes anymore.

We signed Coulibaly In January that season on a 4 and half year deal. In what was another baffling signing. That wasn't Cooper's fault. This season our free transfer and loan signings have made little sense. Rudkin and the same recruitment team looked at Ayew and Daka this January and thought: 'They're good enough, what we need is Joe Aribo on loan'. I put all our transfers issues at the door of Rudkin, who has been here throughout - and who's transfer strategy seems to be what ever football agents offer him. I do agree Mad's was a big loss. But at the same time: who will history look back worse on: I think it's RvN. He went scoreless and winless for 8 consecutive home games setting an English Football League record. Whereas Cooper kept that same squad out of the relegation zone (with awful, turgid football). They were both poor managers, handcuffed by an even worse DoF.

I think we signed Coulibaly under RvN. Which just showed the problem was always above the manager. It's not like Cooper even started Skipp and Ayew every game. He probably started them 50% or less of the games he managed. So he can't have been that keen on them. I put all our transfer problems squarely at the feet of Rudkin - and none of our managers since Rodgers.

I never said Cooper was great, but he was better than RvN. Mad's performances did bail him out somewhat. But look at his results compared to RvN's. It's not revisionism, it's reality. The only thing people really hammer him for now is transfers. It seems out of our last few managers - he was the only one who controlled our transfers. None of our other managers get blamed for transfers - we blame Rudkin. But for Cooper we make an exception. He probably just said we need experience. Which was correct. Then all Rudkin could find/offer him was that bunch of s**t.

I used to get it. Just had to rest it. Every time I tried to come back too soon, so did the pain. Made me realise that I need firmer shoes that are more stable - and these newer, really soft bouncy shoes just don't seem to work for me.

I really want Spurs to go down just for all that Super League nonsense. They tried to pull up the ladder and act like they were one of the big boys of Europe - and the Premier League was beneath them Haha, Sunderland just scored..

If anything history looks more favourably on Cooper than this guy. Yes he questioned standards - but in the end, all he really did, was yap and yap - whilst fixing nothing on the pitch. If it wasn't for Cooper we would probably have gone down as the worst ever team in the history of the Premier League.

If the players aren't listening: drop them. It's not hard. He's gone at the end of the season, he has nothing to lose. At least try and mange the situation - and try something different. Anyone who doesn't listen, put them in the bomb squad and sideline them. It's actually a little bit pathetic to come out and say that and then keep picking the same players every game. Almost like this situation is too big for him.

This is definitely a problem. It's also a problem they only seem to promote from within. Which is always a tell-tail sign of a toxic environment. I think the other problem is a lot of inexperienced people suddenly found themselves in situations they weren't really qualified for and got lucky with our success. So they'll never move on. I actually met this guy around 2013 - talked to him for a while. He'd not been in the job too long. Just come from MK Don's. He was actually a nice guy (not that any of you want to hear that). But like a lot of people at this club, it all needs a refresh.