Matt

Don't see what bearing that has. They sacked Jose literally days before a final.

Everton score, everyone happy? Or is not a case of 'Ever obliging Leicester City, they're still in bad form, they're gonna beat us'.

**** me, woe is me, all the bleeding time on here. (Not just this thread, across the forum) "[Insert Team Name] just getting form before they play us"/"They're not in form, they're gonna hammer us", "Ever obliging Leicester City", "They've not suspended him just because he's playing us next!", "They're out to get us because we've avoided the points deduction", they're all facts and factors and yeah there's not a great deal to be positive about but it seems people are actively going out their way to be woe is me, "everyone's against us", "let's roll over and die" attitude, remember when we used to embrace (And thrive!) being an underdog, giving it a go and upsetting people.

****ing hallelujah! Wild this comes from a Man City player though, Pep will be going crazy.

And tbf Fatawu did more when he came off the bench as opposed to when he started. Not only that, people berated Cooper when he left Fatawu on the bench and then got berated when he started him because 'we had nothing to come off the bench'. Bloke couldn't win.

Maybe. Seemed pretty unanimous then and now. He who shouts loudest I guess.

I’m gonna ask again because no one’s answered. A couple of weeks back many claimed (instantly) RVN had a clear vision, a plan, as opposed to pissing, moaning and whining Cooper having no plan. What is the plan people spoke of exactly? Because I don’t really see one. I’m no tactics connoisseur, that kind of shit bores me to tears, I just wanna see an exciting, attacking game of football so perhaps I’m blind to ‘the plan’, perhaps that’s on me but I genuinely don’t see much difference. In fact I’d argue we’ve got worse and with less fight. I’ll caveat this by saying it’s early days and RVN is having to deal with suspensions and injuries and also this isn’t me saying RVN out because it’s not, I was nonplused with the Cooper situation and said when he was sacked nothing will change and that view remains. But I don’t see any plan or vision, I think it’s got worse, but rather than people question and putting heat on RVN - like they did as vociferously as with Cooper and now blaming the players, they’re the same players, it just shows the difference and agendas people had.

Sure but I feel you’re missing my point entirely. We cannot expect to play sweeper keeper, probably at the best of times but certainly not with Ward or Iversen in goal! With respect you’re comparing to Man City and these opinions and views are half the problem with everyone trying to play like Man City and more often than not get in a mess and look like idiots. Adapt!

And isn't that the crux of the point. Stripping it back to basics, in its most simple form and maybe being abit old fashioned, what does a goalkeeper do? Makes saves, saves goal, last line of defence protecting the goalline - not to say they can't make saves with their feet, use their feet or play passes but the big thing, make saves, use their hands, command their area. At any point you should expect any manager to get the best out of the players available by playing to the players strengths rather than play in one set philosophy but in times where you have injuries and players coming in to deputise this is even more so the case. So, neither are good with their feet, that's established, firstly why are we even considering playing out from the back if that is the case, secondly it comes down to who is the better goalkeeper in regards to making saves, shot stopping, confidence in command their area (Both the player himself and the players around him) etc. My views on playing out, possession based to one side, I don't think i'm talking out of term here am I? And for what it's worth, I don't think we have been playing out in the last couple of games anyway (I don't quite know what we've been doing tbh, people talk of this plan as opposed to the pissing, moaning and whining Cooper apparently had no plan, I don't quite see any difference...), so further to my point why is it being discussed or a factor whether either are any better or worse with their feet?

I'm confused over peoples opinions on Vestergaard. So, under Cooper, he had a spell out of the team where there were a clamor of comments saying he was 'our best defender', 'best ball playing defender', 'needs to be playing', 'how dare Cooper fall out with him?!!' Now, 'our worst defender', 'too slow', 'pathetic'. Can't have it both ways. Agendas, huh.

Or it gives him the opportunity to make the excuse of 'I had to take him out the firing line in order to protect him.'

It seems he's not even demanded a backroom staff of his own, never mind demanding or given the transfers he wants.

People think he'll be backed in January with bringing players in. They can't even back him bringing in any staff. It seemed to drag on for far longer than it should when appointing him, if that was because it was a case of sorting his backroom staff then so be it, you'd kind of understand it, but it seems that wasn't the case. Someone mused the other day that it may be a case of waiting for work permits, if that's the case and they're confident of obtaining the work permits announce it, the Southampton managers been announced subject to a work permit, i'm sure one of Enzo's staff was announced subject to a work permit, so it's not as if clubs don't do such things.

Yeah that was ****ing weird. No-one wanted to chase him down or press, Vardy had to run back to every start any attempt. ****ing dire. But nope we must clap like ****ing dolphins because its all about supporting them, getting behind them, through thick and thin. **** off.

Cool story. Sorry for expecting atleast the bare minimal basics for supposed Premier League footballers.

Uh huh... ...And where is this stuff you speak of to "get behind" exactly?

You may have started it, you may have some question marks, fair play to owning it and holding your hands ups, but there were many, many, many others who piled on Cooper, before a ball was kicked and those same people are also calling it too soon or ridiculous we're even questioning RVN 'so soon'. Seriously, what's changed? Is it not worse? This isn't just on him, as it wasn't Cooper. Players needs to own this, take some responsibility and as I suggested earlier perhaps we shouldn't have a manager, I don't think these players are capable of being managed.

Cooper needed to go, it was never going to work out. However, the pile on that started before we'd even played a game was ridiculous and uncalled for. Yet those same people say it's too soon to question RVN, perhaps it is, but you set the precedent with Cooper. I'm not sure anything's changed, if anything, we're probably worse: People perma-predicted hammerings every week under Cooper, we had none. Since he's been sacked we've had 3 (1 of those wasn't under RVN). We're still conceding an unsustainable amount of shots. We're still not creating much and whilst this was the case under Cooper atleast we were scoring! People claim we have a plan under RVN, i'm not so sure. If we're making comparisons I think we were more entertaining and exciting under Cooper. Many said the players weren't showing any fight under Cooper, I think there was more fight than there is now. I was pretty nonplussed during Coopers reign and likewise when he was sacked because I knew nothing would change, not under the current regime.

Atleast others teams did us a favour though right? ….Ah, hang on….

So this plan he has compared to the no plan Cooper had….. Bet all those perma-predicting hammerings under Cooper are quietly happy. Oh wait….

**** it. Let’s not even turn up against Man City. If the players aren’t going to turn up why should we?

Well, the honeymoon period didn’t last long did it. That isn’t even a slight or criticism of RVN. 100% on the players, go and manage yourselves. Every single ****ing one of you.

Reckon I preferred Cooperball in all honesty.

It kills me. Specifically your last point regarding Atletico and making the comparisons with ourselves. As I said yesterday, I do feel a change is coming though, albeit slowly.

Well others have done us a favour. Can we do ourselves a favour?