Dan

This looks more like 3-0 than 2-1. **** me.

They will see us not in the bottom three and think that's OK. That's what happened with the Rodgers sacking. It's that binary to them. Zero football nous at this club nowadays. Literally none.

Martin tax and them being on four yellows is basically my only hope. They're bad enough to implode. But this is just so unacceptably bad.

They've scored twice, hit the bar, had another decent chance. Ref's given us basically everything as well. Just as dire a half as it could've been against a side on ONE POINT FROM SEVEN GAMES.

As feared the Bournemouth win has probably done more damage in the long run. We've got to get rid of this bloke.

I dunno you've always got a chance against these. Slow starts have been a problem here for years.

How many times do we go 1-0 down in the first half? It's pathetic.

Italian manager who is coming out of a poor international job? Not for me. Would never work here.

Think it's quite damning how few English managers you see even in other leagues though. This as much as anything points to the lack of depth. Are say... Monza, not giving a job to an English coach because they weren't quite good enough for the top jobs in England? Other than Liam Rosenior and Will Still (who is a bit of a strange case anyway) there's none in the big leagues.

It's been 2-2 on 5 of our last 16 visits. That does feel like quite a lot really for a specific scoreline.

All sounds very on brand. This done badly is probably worse than it not happening at all as they'll hide behind this and plenty will fall for it.

Our 2-2 is definitely Palace away. I know it happened the other week but I feel like its happened there loads.

Honestly don't think football's ever been in a worse position in my lifetime when it comes to general discourse. It's just riddled with absolutely boring shit. Bring back debates about the best players or fans.

0-1 loss to me is Burnley or Preston at home growing up. I'm convinced it happened at least 6 times.

We'll never know - they haven't been put in a position where their best manager is Eddie Howe while there are numerous top English managers about. It is quite mad how incapable England are of producing top managers. No English top flight winner since 1992. No European Cup win since 1982.

In a weird way I think Tuchel's a better fit for it than Pep is. I've been way too positive about this appointment for him not to flop is my only fear

I reckon in wages we've paid Vestergaard at least £1mil per top flight appearance.

He's been here for over three years and he's played 12 times for us in the top flight - on six years worth of contract at probably £3mil a year minimum. Doesn't take a financial expert to find out how it's gone to shit here.

This is a goalkeeper who was brought in to primarily play front-footed football in the Championship as well - so he is highly capable of playing both ways. I'll be surprised if he's here in a year.

I don't think it was ever as great as made out but it has gotten worse. It's just more and more focus on it because things have blatantly gone to pot on the pitch as well.

It'll be karma for many at the club if we do go down again.

There are also a few dilemmas in this England side. There are good players but a lot of them in the same position. He'll not be scared to make tough decisions on dropping players where necessary. I am pleasantly surprised by this from the FA. I didn't think they'd actually go for him.

Southgate definitely took England further than we had been but I just don't really see international football as something where you build on previous outcomes. It isn't club football where you're playing every week and training every day. It's a very finite amount of time and games. I don't think what Tuchel does here will have really been shaped by Southgate at all. There aren't really foundations other than raised expectation - something that I think given the calibre of some of our players was going to be there anyway. I do think there's a chance Tuchel completely tanks at England but a lot of what Southgate was championed for I saw scant evidence of in the last tournament - didn't look a happy camp to me or a cohesive team. We fell into that final. Complete fluke and luck of the draw. To be honest I'd argue Southgate achieved a much higher level of performance in 2022 despite only hitting a quarter final.

I always thought it used to be we moved one each a season for the other. Obviously things might've changed.

Games moving to Sunday which aren't on TV is such crap. Wish it would die out. I'm not even talking Europa League here but more the Brighton one for example. Absolutely no need for that to be Sunday or their game before to be Thursday (presumably why this has moved).