Webbo Posted 18 May 2017 Posted 18 May 2017 5 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said: Well Stalinism for a start is closer to fascism than Marxism.... Tell that to the Morning Star.
Guest Kopfkino Posted 18 May 2017 Posted 18 May 2017 11 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said: Scrap tuition fees for public sector professions - so teachers, doctors, nurses etc. Interesting suggestion. Most don't train to become a teacher until they do a PGCE so I'm not sure you could scrap it for them, I guess you could offer to wipe it but it would also have to carry a minimum number of years of service to prevent people teaching for 2 years and just leaving. Doctors/Dentists I feel should pay because they are well paid
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 18 May 2017 Posted 18 May 2017 Just now, KingGTF said: Interesting suggestion. Most don't train to become a teacher until they do a PGCE so I'm not sure you could scrap it for them, I guess you could offer to wipe it but it would also have to carry a minimum number of years of service to prevent people teaching for 2 years and just leaving. Doctors/Dentists I feel should pay because they are well paid But we have a shortage of Doctors / Dentists / GPs and it's not the most attractive of professions despite the wage at the moment.
Guest Dirkster the Fox Posted 18 May 2017 Posted 18 May 2017 2 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said: Well Stalinism for a start is closer to fascism than Marxism.... I'm simply saying you need to back up your statements Theresa May I believe is a vampire but until she's caught hanging upside down and dining out on virgin necks I reckon I'll get called on it. Swann, the journey taken to arrive at JC very likely being a communist at heart, is a well trodden path. No smoke without fire and he's pretty much admitted it numerous times. Hardly a top secret. As for TM, a real pickle for moderate Labour left. She's seemingly a lefty Tory at heart and tribal instincts are a touch harder to go with now. Is that what's called a vampire?
Webbo Posted 18 May 2017 Posted 18 May 2017 Just now, DJ Barry Hammond said: But we have a shortage of Doctors / Dentists / GPs and it's not the most attractive of professions despite the wage at the moment. It's not for lack of people applying to university.
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 18 May 2017 Posted 18 May 2017 Just now, Webbo said: It's not for lack of people applying to university. Well yes, but if your deciding on a degree and you know you could study medicine for free compared to another degree (e.g. Quantum mechanics) maybe you go that route? It wouldn't be a defining factor for most, but it might get more to look that way initially.
Guest Kopfkino Posted 18 May 2017 Posted 18 May 2017 4 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said: You know the other question with tutuion fees is to consider the chances of the money being paid back and interest. * I'm not sure interest should be charged * The repayment rare and level isn't great... so in a way what's the point? * Couldn't the government provide a tax efficient product that parents / grandparents can pay into specifically towards a kids tuition fees when they're born - the government can use the proceeds it earns to provide more burseies to underprivileged kids who could otherwise not go to university. My understanding is Universities want to charge more still! - The interest is so extortionate that is makes it a little unfair so I would agree there, maybe there should be some interest though - The point is that some of it gets repaid (I don't think the rate of repayment is too bad) and those whom their earnings potential is benefitted significantly, pay for the opportunity that led to that - That would benefit middle class students even more than scrapping would. If parents are paying in for their kid, the money can't be used again to benefit underprivileged kids. Just now, DJ Barry Hammond said: But we have a shortage of Doctors / Dentists / GPs and it's not the most attractive of professions despite the wage at the moment. There is a shortage of places at uni anyway, it's not like med schools aren't able to fill their places so the cost isn't the issue
Nick Posted 18 May 2017 Posted 18 May 2017 6 minutes ago, Webbo said: Tell that to the Morning Star. I'm not a reader, just highlighting the difference!
Nick Posted 18 May 2017 Posted 18 May 2017 4 minutes ago, Dirkster the Fox said: Swann, the journey taken to arrive at JC very likely being a communist at heart, is a well trodden path. No smoke without fire and he's pretty much admitted it numerous times. Hardly a top secret. Just soundbytes and conjecture then.. I may not disagree necessarily, it's just an easy label to apply and I'm not seeing anything to convince me that people reall understand the term.
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 18 May 2017 Posted 18 May 2017 @KingGTF You misunderstand my idea on the savings vehicle. YES, that would largely provide rich / middle class parents with an advantage, but with it being a savings vechicle, the government would have funds up front enabling it to do something with it (make money from it) that would then go back into the pot to provide bursaries. The other bonus is that if the funds are collected prior to going to university, the funds are there to be paid - rather than provide a long drawn out loan with poor return rates. This could even free up more money to be invested in universities so they can expand their intake further still.
Carl the Llama Posted 18 May 2017 Posted 18 May 2017 14 hours ago, Foxin_mad said: I don't fall for that at all, I fully appreciate life on low income. I have worked it the hardest jobs for the crappest amount of money I used to work 12 hour shifts 6 days a week in a supermarket before minimum wage, I've done 12hrs box packing in a warehouse. Ive worked hard at school and work and managed to get myself out of that. Its hard but I have always managed to earn enough to live off I have out of principle never claimed any benefits even when entitled, you shop in Aldi, you don't smoke, you don't drink, you don't have Sky, you don't have a mobile contract, you don't have take aways, you consider when you go out, I ran an old cheap car, you think about using electricity and gas wisely not wasting and illuminating a whole house, put a jumper on and knock a few degrees off the temperature. Then as a single person you could easily survive on a few hundred pound a week, people have to be wise and budget well. I am sure that people have very high expectations of what they should have now (latest smart phone, cups of coffee on their way to work, big tvs, sky, nights out, take aways etc etc,) but other people absolutely should not pay for my luxuries in life. I dislike the vision in the left that the rich are widespread horrible the richest already contribute the most in tax http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/11233686/How-top-3000-earners-pay-more-tax-than-bottom-9-million.html A lot depends on the individuals there are horrible vile creatures who are poor who bleed the state dry and breed, and commit crime and there are horrible rich people . A business I worked for the family members get stuck in for big orders work night shifts and all sorts, they take a damn good wage and deserve it. They also give benefits to their workers like loaning their company cars for a weekend away, loaning holiday homes etc. Of course there are different types of rich, there always will be, there are different types of poor. Having knowledge of the voluntary sector, large numbers of volunteers for charity are 'horrible rich Tories' who are fortunate enough to be able to give their time, the impact this may have under Labour when they are forced to work another 15 years to pay off their mortgage. I also now work with Belgium and the unions and laws there can be an absolute pain in the backside, they strike over the smallest thing, and getting rid of someone incompetent is almost impossible they are so protected, you really have to manage them out to make them leave. The wages there are very high for equivalent jobs in the UK. The long term plan is to migrate jobs away from there as it is too costly, and too much red tape. Apologies for the technical error, my point is that government should never be taking half of any wage, whatever percentage ends up being subject to that rate. I would also question how much a more complicated tax system costs to operate by a hugely inefficient government department. Surely it would be better to merge NI and Tax into 1 it would reduce the administrative burden. The 'problem' is that in Belgium employers are expected to uphold their employees' rights. Funnily enough in my case it was the fact of me letting fellow workers know what those rights are that got me sacked (our boss had a habit of asking us to work bank holidays without offering the time off in lieu, it wouldn't have cost him much to stagger the days off to keep the business running just as well but he got greedy and I fought for our right to not be worked into the ground). I can appreciate that international companies would rather not be based in a country where their employees have protection (I dispute your strike point btw, never been involved in one and not heard of it being abused, happy for you to correct me with examples though) but that's exactly the problem: Capitalism dictates that they maximise profits which generally means screwing over employees. Socialism derived workplace laws the likes of which you find in Belgium simply add rules to the capitalism game to make it fairer. If somebody is legitimately bad at their job it's still easy enough to get rid of them, I've seen it happen many times without repercussions to the employer. It gets more costly to remove employees the longer they've been with you so if it's hard to get rid of someone then they've more than likely made themselves useful enough to justify decent compensation otherwise the employer's an idiot for keeping an incompetent person on the payroll long enough for their removal to be problematic. Of course I don't know the specifics of the cases you're referring to but that's the general gist of things over there from a humanitarian POV.
Guest Posted 19 May 2017 Posted 19 May 2017 8 hours ago, Dirkster the Fox said: Three facts today are: 1) we are living longer and longer. Death for us all is getter later in life (average) 2) the deficit still sits at £50+billion and that's with the highest employment rate for 42 years. The deficit is not likely to drop into a positive for years whichever way your vote swings. More debt as each year passes. 3) social care for the elderly is a rapidly increasing cost burden on the country whatever your politics, as part of the economic argument, those three facts means something needs to be done to pay for our own care living longer and longer. who pays for it? Apart from those without, is it us with an understanding we'll need to accept provision is needed and we give less to our children, or do you expect the state pick up all the tab for everyone as that how's it always been? If it's the latter and this bill gets bigger and bigger where does the money come from? this is a serious issue. Think long term and not just 1 manifesto and 5 years...no money trees or utopia. How? Ffs how many times? Why would we want to be in a situation where we have a 'positive deficit'? That means sucking money OUT of the economy! If you're going to comment on debt and deficit do some reading and stop parroting the crap the tories talk just because it suits their narrative. The economy does not work like your bank accounts.
Guest Dirkster the Fox Posted 19 May 2017 Posted 19 May 2017 6 hours ago, Swan Lesta said: Just soundbytes and conjecture then.. I may not disagree necessarily, it's just an easy label to apply and I'm not seeing anything to convince me that people reall understand the term. Enough has been said, written and seen to formulate a pretty clear view he very likely is. Unless I can get him to send me a personal video saying "Dirkster, I'm a communist at heart" it is a view based on sound bites, written views/quotes, clips etc and with possible conjecture of course as he's clearly not come out openly and said the exact words. He has said he is a fan of Stalinism numerous times and his best mate in politics likes a little red book. The woman his campaign chose to front the last election broadcast is an ex communist party member. They're all cut from the same cloth around him. Its my formulated view and one that many others have. either way, I stand by my first point. In 3 weeks it's (in my view) a communist or a red Tory.
Guest Dirkster the Fox Posted 19 May 2017 Posted 19 May 2017 8 minutes ago, toddybad said: Ffs how many times? Why would we want to be in a situation where we have a 'positive deficit'? That means sucking money OUT of the economy! If you're going to comment on debt and deficit do some reading and stop parroting the crap the tories talk just because it suits their narrative. The economy does not work like your bank accounts. So you've just had a pop oh clever one, without actually answering anything. Too tough for you?
Webbo Posted 19 May 2017 Posted 19 May 2017 3 minutes ago, toddybad said: Ffs how many times? Why would we want to be in a situation where we have a 'positive deficit'? That means sucking money OUT of the economy! If you're going to comment on debt and deficit do some reading and stop parroting the crap the tories talk just because it suits their narrative. The economy does not work like your bank accounts. Instead of pretending that debt doesn't matter? Doesn't matter what the interest rate is low, it's still got to be paid back. When you keep adding debt on top of debt eventually you get to a point where you can't pay it back anymore,like Greece. Why do we need a fiscal stimulus anyway? We have decent growth and the highest employment for 40 odd years. All it will do is cause an inflationary boom followed by a bust.
Sharpe's Fox Posted 19 May 2017 Posted 19 May 2017 9 minutes ago, Dirkster the Fox said: Enough has been said, written and seen to formulate a pretty clear view he very likely is. Unless I can get him to send me a personal video saying "Dirkster, I'm a communist at heart" it is a view based on sound bites, written views/quotes, clips etc and with possible conjecture of course as he's clearly not come out openly and said the exact words. He has said he is a fan of Stalinism numerous times and his best mate in politics likes a little red book. The woman his campaign chose to front the last election broadcast is an ex communist party member. They're all cut from the same cloth around him. You can't just label people without their politics reflecting what you say. Find me one quote where Jeremy Corbyn said he's a fan of Stalinism. Find me one policy that doesn't correspond to other social democracies throughout Europe. You are without a doubt the worst poster to ever comment on any political thread I've seen.
Guest Posted 19 May 2017 Posted 19 May 2017 9 minutes ago, Webbo said: Instead of pretending that debt doesn't matter? Doesn't matter what the interest rate is low, it's still got to be paid back. When you keep adding debt on top of debt eventually you get to a point where you can't pay it back anymore,like Greece. Why do we need a fiscal stimulus anyway? We have decent growth and the highest employment for 40 odd years. All it will do is cause an inflationary boom followed by a bust. The BOE had continued its fiscal stimulus through QE to date. This has simply boosted the stock market and asset prices rather than feeding the real economy. Id rather see qe end and the real economy be directly stimulated.
Webbo Posted 19 May 2017 Posted 19 May 2017 8 minutes ago, toddybad said: The BOE had continued its fiscal stimulus through QE to date. This has simply boosted the stock market and asset prices rather than feeding the real economy. Id rather see qe end and the real economy be directly stimulated. If that was the case then unemployment wouldn't be falling.
Guest Dirkster the Fox Posted 19 May 2017 Posted 19 May 2017 18 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said: You can't just label people without their politics reflecting what you say. Find me one quote where Jeremy Corbyn said he's a fan of Stalinism. Find me one policy that doesn't correspond to other social democracies throughout Europe. You are without a doubt the worst poster to ever comment on any political thread I've seen. Thanks Sharpe. Hit a nerve did I. Too close to bullseye? its my opinion and I've explained why I have that view. Just because your view is different doesn't justify your post and I presume you'll call me a racist next?
Sharpe's Fox Posted 19 May 2017 Posted 19 May 2017 5 minutes ago, Dirkster the Fox said: Thanks Sharpe. Hit a nerve did I. Too close to bullseye? its my opinion and I've explained why I have that view. Just because your view is different doesn't justify your post and I presume you'll call me a racist next? No I won't stoop down to your level.
Sharpe's Fox Posted 19 May 2017 Posted 19 May 2017 You can’t trust Tory promises Promise: Raise living standards.iBroken: Working families are set to be on average over £1,400 a year worse off, while those at the top have been given tax breaks worth tens of billions.ii _____________________________________________________ Promise: Make work pay.iiiBroken: Cuts to Universal Credit work allowances will mean some working families are worse off by around £2,600 a year.iv _____________________________________________________ Promise: Control national debt.vBroken: The OBR forecast that national debt will hit £2 trillion by the end of the decade.vi _____________________________________________________ Promise: Ensure that debt keeps falling as a share of GDP.viiBroken: Public Sector Net Debt as a percentage of GDP has increased this year from 87.3 per cent in 2016/17 to 90.2 per cent in 2017/18. viii _____________________________________________________ Promise: No increase in National Insurance contributions.ixBroken: In the Budget 2017, the Tories attempted to increase NICs for self-employed people.x _____________________________________________________ Promise: Move to a budget surplus in 2019-20.xiBroken: The deficit for 2019/20 is now forecast to be £21.4 billion and Theresa May has admitted that there will not be a surplus.xii _____________________________________________________ Promise: Safeguard British interests in the single market.xiiiBroken: It is official government policy to fully leave the single market.xiv _____________________________________________________ Promise: Crack down on tax evasion and aggressive tax avoidance.xvBroken: The tax gap, the difference between the amount of tax that should be collected by HMRC against what is actually collected, has increased from three per cent in HMRC’s 2015 analysis to 12.5 per cent in the 2016 analysis.xvi _____________________________________________________ Promise: Protect our public services like the NHS and schools.xviiBroken: NHS England funding per head will be cut in real terms next year and the Tories are cutting per-pupil spending.xviii _____________________________________________________ Promise: Keep council taxes low.xixBroken: The Government have allowed a 5 per cent increase on council tax for the next two years.xx _____________________________________________________ Promise: Eliminate child poverty.xxiBroken: The Government abolished child poverty targets in the Welfare Reform and Work Act 2016 and the IFS have forecast nearly a million more children will be pushed into poverty because of the Government’s policies.xxii _____________________________________________________ Promise: Protect pensioner benefits.xxiiiBroken: Spending on pensioner benefits is falling in real terms next year.xxiv _____________________________________________________ Promise: Halve the disability employment gap.xxvBroken: The disability employment gap has fallen by less than a tenth since 2015.xxvi _____________________________________________________ Promise: Full, genuine gender equality.xxviiBroken: Analysis from the House of Commons Library shows that 86 per cent of net savings to the Treasury from Tory tax and benefit changes between 2010 and 2020 will fall on women.xxviii _____________________________________________________ Promise: Deliver Universal Credit.xxixBroken: The Office for Budget Responsibility has made successive revisions to its estimate for the roll-out of Universal Credit (UC). In November 2016, the OBR forecast UC will not be delivered until 2021-22.xxx And many more below http://www.labour.org.uk/page/-/PDFs/One Tory manifesto two years of failure 50 broken promises.pdf
Guest Posted 19 May 2017 Posted 19 May 2017 23 minutes ago, Webbo said: If that was the case then unemployment wouldn't be falling. You cannot make any direct correlation between qe and unemployment rate. Why are people using lazy arguments rather than reading up on the subject? Unemployment has indeed been falling but then wage growth has stalled makimg emoloyees cheaper as a % of income. There is also plenty of evidence to suggest unemployment has been helped by unscrupulous employers finding different means of keeping wages down and stepping back from employee rights (pretend self employment for example).
Webbo Posted 19 May 2017 Posted 19 May 2017 2 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said: You can’t trust Tory promises Promise: Raise living standards.iBroken: Working families are set to be on average over £1,400 a year worse off, while those at the top have been given tax breaks worth tens of billions.ii _____________________________________________________ Promise: Make work pay.iiiBroken: Cuts to Universal Credit work allowances will mean some working families are worse off by around £2,600 a year.iv _____________________________________________________ Promise: Control national debt.vBroken: The OBR forecast that national debt will hit £2 trillion by the end of the decade.vi _____________________________________________________ Promise: Ensure that debt keeps falling as a share of GDP.viiBroken: Public Sector Net Debt as a percentage of GDP has increased this year from 87.3 per cent in 2016/17 to 90.2 per cent in 2017/18. viii _____________________________________________________ Promise: No increase in National Insurance contributions.ixBroken: In the Budget 2017, the Tories attempted to increase NICs for self-employed people.x _____________________________________________________ Promise: Move to a budget surplus in 2019-20.xiBroken: The deficit for 2019/20 is now forecast to be £21.4 billion and Theresa May has admitted that there will not be a surplus.xii _____________________________________________________ Promise: Safeguard British interests in the single market.xiiiBroken: It is official government policy to fully leave the single market.xiv _____________________________________________________ Promise: Crack down on tax evasion and aggressive tax avoidance.xvBroken: The tax gap, the difference between the amount of tax that should be collected by HMRC against what is actually collected, has increased from three per cent in HMRC’s 2015 analysis to 12.5 per cent in the 2016 analysis.xvi _____________________________________________________ Promise: Protect our public services like the NHS and schools.xviiBroken: NHS England funding per head will be cut in real terms next year and the Tories are cutting per-pupil spending.xviii _____________________________________________________ Promise: Keep council taxes low.xixBroken: The Government have allowed a 5 per cent increase on council tax for the next two years.xx _____________________________________________________ Promise: Eliminate child poverty.xxiBroken: The Government abolished child poverty targets in the Welfare Reform and Work Act 2016 and the IFS have forecast nearly a million more children will be pushed into poverty because of the Government’s policies.xxii _____________________________________________________ Promise: Protect pensioner benefits.xxiiiBroken: Spending on pensioner benefits is falling in real terms next year.xxiv _____________________________________________________ Promise: Halve the disability employment gap.xxvBroken: The disability employment gap has fallen by less than a tenth since 2015.xxvi _____________________________________________________ Promise: Full, genuine gender equality.xxviiBroken: Analysis from the House of Commons Library shows that 86 per cent of net savings to the Treasury from Tory tax and benefit changes between 2010 and 2020 will fall on women.xxviii _____________________________________________________ Promise: Deliver Universal Credit.xxixBroken: The Office for Budget Responsibility has made successive revisions to its estimate for the roll-out of Universal Credit (UC). In November 2016, the OBR forecast UC will not be delivered until 2021-22.xxx And many more below http://www.labour.org.uk/page/-/PDFs/One Tory manifesto two years of failure 50 broken promises.pdf Really? We're using party press releases as proof now?
Guest Posted 19 May 2017 Posted 19 May 2017 1 minute ago, Webbo said: Really? We're using party press releases as proof now? So tell us what's improved for normal people in the last 7 years webbo.
Sharpe's Fox Posted 19 May 2017 Posted 19 May 2017 4 minutes ago, Webbo said: Really? We're using party press releases as proof now? Why quote the post tho, just @ me fam big list of citations at the bottom with press release on each pledge and figures on how they have reached or not reached the pledge.
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