General Election, June 8th

[leicsmac]

14 minutes ago, MattP said:

The Tories are killing elephants now because there is good money to be made? New one on me.

 

More about the point of them seemingly not having a problem with those that do.

[Buce]

13 minutes ago, MattP said:

The Tories are killing elephants now because there is good money to be made? New one on me.

 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4299180/Tories-shame-blood-ivory.html

 

https://beforeitsnews.com/eu/2017/05/tories-bow-to-wealthy-antiques-dealers-and-drop-ban-on-elephant-ivory-in-manifesto-2623943.html

[Sharpe's Fox]

[Guest]

2 hours ago, MattP said:

Not if Trump and Macron get their way.

So what? There are already plenty of countries with lower tax rates. Companies choose the uk because they want to be in the uk. Much more likely that companies will leave because of brexit (that you voted for) than a rise in taxation. Particularly when they were paying higher corporation tax very recently until the tories cut it.

[Stadt]

44 minutes ago, toddybad said:

So what? There are already plenty of countries with lower tax rates. Companies choose the uk because they want to be in the uk. Much more likely that companies will leave because of brexit (that you voted for) than a rise in taxation. Particularly when they were paying higher corporation tax very recently until the tories cut it.

There's a few multinationals leaving already as a result of Brexit so raising corporation tax significantly would probably make it an a mass exodus.

[LiberalFox]

I think setting levels of corporation tax is something a more left wing EU could/should agree upon. Then a mechanism to charge high rates of tax on services imported from businesses based in tax havens could follow. The idea being to stop people basing themselves nominally in a tax haven but enjoying access to the single market. Likewise there should have been stricter conditions on the level of minimum wage for countries entering into the single market.   

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Wookie said:

There's a few multinationals leaving already as a result of Brexit so raising corporation tax significantly would probably make it an a mass exodus.

Which ones exactly?

[LiberalFox]

May seems to be combining the nasty social policies of the Tories with the economic incompetence of Labour and yet she could well take 50% of the vote! In fact she's not far off a manifesto fit for the BNP circa the early 2000's.

 

Interesting article on conservative home http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2017/05/ryan-bourne-may-has-chosen-to-occupy-the-centre-rather-than-try-to-shift-it-this-bodes-badly-for-britain-brexit-and-the-economy.html

 

I would like it if the Liberals could outflank Chairwoman May on economic liberalism. We have one good policy on the legalisation of Cannabis but need more. 

[Guest]

Seen side by side, the labour manifesto pisses all over the tory one

 

Who should I vote for? The UK election manifestos compared

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2017/may/19/who-should-i-vote-for-the-uk-election-manifestos-compared

[leicsmac]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/uk-government-purdah-environment-gagging-scientists-misapplying-rule-science-media-centre-a7742441.html

 

Even if this was an honest misunderstanding, it's not exactly fantastic is it?

[Webbo]

4 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

 

 

Interesting article on conservative home http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2017/05/ryan-bourne-may-has-chosen-to-occupy-the-centre-rather-than-try-to-shift-it-this-bodes-badly-for-britain-brexit-and-the-economy.html

 

Yep, I can't argue with that.

[Strokes]

7 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Which Tory manifesto policies do you find particularly off-putting, Strokes? Just curious....

 

 

Meanwhile, here's a good article by Jonathan Freedland about why Labour is still likely to be hammered despite having the more attractive policies ("rejecting Santa, embracing Scrooge") - "it's the economic credibility, stupid": 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/19/british-voters-rejecting-santa-embracing-scrooge-labour-popularity

 

Quote: "The coming rejection of an apparently popular platform will be a brutal reminder of a central truth about politics, that what matters is not just the product you’re offering but your perceived ability to deliver it. It comes down to credibility. Voters don’t believe Labour has a hope of fulfilling its promises.This is not a new problem. Labour lost in 2015 for similar reasons. Though this is billed as a Brexit election, and though austerity and the deficit are now mentioned rarely, this election still stands in the shadow of the 2008-2009 crash.Now many of us may well insist, to our last breath, that the crash was made on Wall Street not Downing Street, and that if anything, Gordon Brown handled a global crisis with great skill. But, thanks in part to the relentless message discipline of Cameron and George Osborne, the settled view is that Labour messed up by spending too much".

 

That's why it's electoral insanity to have made some of the pledges that Labour has (tuition fees, triple lock, multiple nationalisations). That's truer than ever in the current context - pending Brexit negotiations. It looks as if this won't be "the Brexit election", as the Lib Dems had hoped. But people are aware that Brexit is just around the corner. Whether they voted Leave or Remain, I reckon a lot of voters expect that times might get tough for a while as a result - even if they think it'll be beneficial in the long run. In that context, it is even more important to look fiscally prudent. Labour could have made certain popular pledges, say: investment in housing/infrastructure, reinstatement of bursaries for nurses, extra funds for social care to help the squeeze on the NHS, extra investment to train up young Brits to replace departing migrant workers.....and could have made a virtue out of being unable to make further pledges: "we'd love to abolish tuition fees, to keep the triple lock and to nationalise the energy companies, but times are going to be tough so we need to be prudent".

 

Corbyn might now get a lot of votes from students (helping him keep the leadership), plus a few extra votes from pensioners who don't like May's policies on funding for the elderly. But I reckon an awful lot of voters are going to think "Jeremy's Santa list sounds great, but times are tough and are going to get worse. It's not realistic. We can't afford it. We must be cautious and vote for Theresa Scrooge". I'd love to think that Labour could win and then jettison or moderate some of its more reckless pledges, but I just don't see them winning. Much of Labour's reputation for economic incompetence is unjustified (not all of it) and the Tories are economically incompetent in other ways - but that reputation is a reality Labour can't just ignore.

Well I was already suspicious of Mays government intentions after the snoopers charter, which I hate (and why I didn't want her to win the leadership contest). Then the manifesto just shows the governments intent to push its nose into everything and fail to address desperate areas. The Social care solution is horrific and they are selling it as a positive, they must be mental.

If it wasn't for brexit, I would not even be considering voting for them now. It just feels like a bit of a betrayal. 

[Sharpe's Fox]

Even when rightists are going to get a landslide win they still lose  you'll never kill the welfare state you fools. Say hello to Ted Heath MkII silly little Thatcher lovers

[Sharpe's Fox]

Mayhems been found out oh dear

[Guest MattP]

5 hours ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

You've just convinced me. I love Mr Burns. 

[Guest]

Whatever you think of him this is an amazing sight

 

https://twitter.com/DavidPrescott/status/866001515382702080?s=09

[Carl the Llama]

36 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Well I was already suspicious of Mays government intentions after the snoopers charter, which I hate (and why I didn't want her to win the leadership contest). Then the manifesto just shows the governments intent to push its nose into everything and fail to address desperate areas. The Social care solution is horrific and they are selling it as a positive, they must be mental.

If it wasn't for brexit, I would not even be considering voting for them now. It just feels like a bit of a betrayal. 

The govt controlled Internet's another thing I think she's insanely out of touch over and I'm surprised more hasn't been made of it but then I guess there are myriad other threatening pledges from them to worry about...  MI6 or GCHQ or whoever are clearly already doing a decent job of catching online terror suspects so using it as an excuse to take control of online content and our freedoms is bonkers.  I'm shocked you're the only con voter on here openly and genuinely questioning their voting options in the same way all of us with lib dem and labour histories are.  I see no  shame in admitting that the biggest factor in my vote will be minimising the Tory majority and therefore the damage the party line threatens to cause this country if left unchecked.

[Guest]

For comparison:

 

https://twitter.com/CaptainJimDandy/status/866005628019503104?s=09

[Strokes]

7 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

The govt controlled Internet's another thing I think she's insanely out of touch over and I'm surprised more hasn't been made of it but then I guess there are myriad other threatening pledges from them to worry about...  MI6 or GCHQ or whoever are clearly already doing a decent job of catching online terror suspects so using it as an excuse to take control of online content and our freedoms is bonkers.  I'm shocked you're the only con voter on here openly and genuinely questioning their voting options in the same way all of us with lib dem and labour histories are.  I see no  shame in admitting that the biggest factor in my vote will be minimising the Tory majority and therefore the damage the party line threatens to cause this country if left unchecked.

I'll be honest Carl I've really only been interested in brexit and the direction that takes us up to now but I'm being asked to get off my arse (well actually it will be postal because I'm on holiday but I don't like to brag) and vote, you have to check exactly what you are voting for. 

All I hear is how bad every other party will be and I look to the manifesto for the positives and I can't find anywhere near enough. 

The control over the internet is mental and another attack on freedoms.

[Rincewind]

45 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

Mayhems been found out oh dear

Just more buzz words

 

46 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

Mayhems been found out oh dear

Just more buzz words spin doctors have come up with. Like 'Workers and shirkers' 'We're all in it together' Things can only get better' And many more from all sides.

Tell a lie often enough and people will come to believe it.

[ScouseFox]

jez is a geezer. he's bouncing from the boozer by mine in leeds to libertines gigs on the wirral in the last week. fu ck the tories. 

[ScouseFox]

not to mention he's now part of BBK as well. this country will be back in business if he gets in charge. 

[Carl the Llama]

3 minutes ago, ScouseFox said:

not to mention he's now part of BBK as well. this country will be back in business if he gets in charge. 

 The burger chain?

[SMX11]

2 hours ago, LiberalFox said:

May seems to be combining the nasty social policies of the Tories with the economic incompetence of Labour and yet she could well take 50% of the vote! In fact she's not far off a manifesto fit for the BNP circa the early 2000's.

 

Interesting article on conservative home http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2017/05/ryan-bourne-may-has-chosen-to-occupy-the-centre-rather-than-try-to-shift-it-this-bodes-badly-for-britain-brexit-and-the-economy.html

 

I would like it if the Liberals could outflank Chairwoman May on economic liberalism. We have one good policy on the legalisation of Cannabis but need more. 

Unfortunately the 'Liberal' party is a pseudo socialist party so i can't see the economic liberalism ever being put on the table.

[Sharpe's Fox]