Midfield

[Fez of Mahrez]

Firstly I just have to say don't read this if you don't want to. I don't usually write essays but allow me this one.

So, the midfield. Embarrassing.

It's difficult to criticise when we've won a game or got a point from a tricky away match and I'm sure I'll be accused of being reactionary but I'm going to go for it anyway.

Not enough pace in the midfield. Simple as. It's 4-4-2 for the sake of it rather than as part of a designated game plan.

Where are the options? With no target men up front, we are forced to play through the midfield. When we begin an attack, the player in possession at the back should see options left, right and centre. The worrying thing is that people think Williams will solve everything. He won't. On the strength of the Southampton game then he may improve things slightly, but he won't solve the fundamental problem with our midfield - the lack of pace. Fast wingers and a slow central midfield works with a targetman. With the strikers we have (Fryatt and Hume are quality players whose strengths we should be playing to), the emphasis should be on playing the ball through the midfield and midfielders running from deep to offer support. We have none of this. The most effective example I've seen of us doing this was Tiatto on Tuesday night, offering an option for the strikers to lay it off to in order to shoot.

You can forget any notion of Johnson supporting the attack. Stearman on the right has to hold his position because Kenton doesn't offer an overlap. Same on the left hand side with Johansson. Hughes is usually too busy looking for the balls Johnson is shying away from receiving to be on the end of any knockdowns further up the pitch. Welsh is a winger who needs someone in the box who can attack his crosses, preferably in the air.

There are just so many things wrong with the way we approach the game. It's not as simple as selecting attacking players and going for the throat, you've got to look at the failings in the approach and the remedies for this. It's not simply a case of trying someone that hasn't been in the side before - it's about playing to your strengths and selecting a team that will get the best out of your star players, adapting existing first-team players to make a more effective unit.

So while we can put aside the obvious 3-5-2 solution, let's look at how 4-4-2 can suit us after all.

Goalkeeper: Impressed with Logan. Hope he continues to look as commanding for years to come in a Leicester City goalkeeping jersey.

Defence: We need an overlap on one side at least. While this threatens to bring up the dreaded Sheehan debate, let's put him aside for a moment and concentrate on the players currently at the club. In the absence of anybody else, Johansson stays at left-back. Kisnorbo first name on the team sheet, personally I'd have McAuley alongside him but that's just personal preference. Stearman at right-back. I was impressed with Kenton at first but in the absence of a reliable right-sided midfielder, we need a full-back who can help out in attack.

Midfield: Needs pace. Still needs a defensive player to help out. No need for wingers as we have no-one to attack the crosses into the box and they are few and far between anyway with the likes of Low and Sylla. Right side of midfield: drum roll. When fit... James Wesolowski. Cue barrage of missiles. Okay, here's why. Combative and tidy on the ball, lots of energy, really good burst of pace. Good understanding with his best mate Stearman as seen in the Villa game. For my liking, it appears that he may go missing from games a bit too much to be a consistent and reliable holding midfielder alongside a workshy fop like Williams.

Left side - Tiatto.

In the middle - never Johnson. Would do to him what Kelly did to Sylla at the start of the season and wouldn't have him back unless we were desperate. He's not the worst player we've ever had but he limits us so much. With Tiatto and Weso playing as part of a narrow midfield four, there's less need for battlers or defensive players in the middle. So you play either Hughes or Williams with either Welsh or Porter. One for the clever passes, one for the pace and support from midfield. So much adaptability in there - if we are getting battered then put Tiatto and Weso in the middle, Welsh or Porter out wide and Hughes on the right. Any combination really.

Fryatt and Hume up front. With decent support = goals.

Sorry. I just had to get it off my chest.

[Babylon]

You done now Fezzer?

[Fez of Mahrez]

You done now Fezzer?

[Thracian]

Firstly I just have to say don't read this if you don't want to. I don't usually write essays but allow me this one.

So, the midfield. Embarrassing.

It's difficult to criticise when we've won a game or got a point from a tricky away match and I'm sure I'll be accused of being reactionary but I'm going to go for it anyway.

Not enough pace in the midfield. Simple as. It's 4-4-2 for the sake of it rather than as part of a designated game plan.

Where are the options? With no target men up front, we are forced to play through the midfield. When we begin an attack, the player in possession at the back should see options left, right and centre. The worrying thing is that people think Williams will solve everything. He won't. On the strength of the Southampton game then he may improve things slightly, but he won't solve the fundamental problem with our midfield - the lack of pace. Fast wingers and a slow central midfield works with a targetman. With the strikers we have (Fryatt and Hume are quality players whose strengths we should be playing to), the emphasis should be on playing the ball through the midfield and midfielders running from deep to offer support. We have none of this. The most effective example I've seen of us doing this was Tiatto on Tuesday night, offering an option for the strikers to lay it off to in order to shoot.

You can forget any notion of Johnson supporting the attack. Stearman on the right has to hold his position because Kenton doesn't offer an overlap. Same on the left hand side with Johansson. Hughes is usually too busy looking for the balls Johnson is shying away from receiving to be on the end of any knockdowns further up the pitch. Welsh is a winger who needs someone in the box who can attack his crosses, preferably in the air.

There are just so many things wrong with the way we approach the game. It's not as simple as selecting attacking players and going for the throat, you've got to look at the failings in the approach and the remedies for this. It's not simply a case of trying someone that hasn't been in the side before - it's about playing to your strengths and selecting a team that will get the best out of your star players, adapting existing first-team players to make a more effective unit.

So while we can put aside the obvious 3-5-2 solution, let's look at how 4-4-2 can suit us after all.

Goalkeeper: Impressed with Logan. Hope he continues to look as commanding for years to come in a Leicester City goalkeeping jersey.

Defence: We need an overlap on one side at least. While this threatens to bring up the dreaded Sheehan debate, let's put him aside for a moment and concentrate on the players currently at the club. In the absence of anybody else, Johansson stays at left-back. Kisnorbo first name on the team sheet, personally I'd have McAuley alongside him but that's just personal preference. Stearman at right-back. I was impressed with Kenton at first but in the absence of a reliable right-sided midfielder, we need a full-back who can help out in attack.

Midfield: Needs pace. Still needs a defensive player to help out. No need for wingers as we have no-one to attack the crosses into the box and they are few and far between anyway with the likes of Low and Sylla. Right side of midfield: drum roll. When fit... James Wesolowski. Cue barrage of missiles. Okay, here's why. Combative and tidy on the ball, lots of energy, really good burst of pace. Good understanding with his best mate Stearman as seen in the Villa game. For my liking, it appears that he may go missing from games a bit too much to be a consistent and reliable holding midfielder alongside a workshy fop like Williams.

Left side - Tiatto.

In the middle - never Johnson. Would do to him what Kelly did to Sylla at the start of the season and wouldn't have him back unless we were desperate. He's not the worst player we've ever had but he limits us so much. With Tiatto and Weso playing as part of a narrow midfield four, there's less need for battlers or defensive players in the middle. So you play either Hughes or Williams with either Welsh or Porter. One for the clever passes, one for the pace and support from midfield. So much adaptability in there - if we are getting battered then put Tiatto and Weso in the middle, Welsh or Porter out wide and Hughes on the right. Any combination really.

Fryatt and Hume up front. With decent support = goals.

Sorry. I just had to get it off my chest.

Some sound thinking there.

[Babylon]

Don't worry mate you were right... it's only what we are all thinking.

[Fez of Mahrez]

Don't worry mate you were right... it's only what we are all thinking.

I hope it's not just stating the obvious. That clearly wasn't my intention - I just get sick of reading about how we should play more attacking football - it's not that simple. It needs to have a basis for it to work.

[sam_lcfc]

I like most of those suggestions!

I agree with the goalkeeper, not sure anybody would disagree.

Also agree with the defenders, Not a johannson fan but what other options do we currently have. McAuley and Kisnorbo are both more solid and less likely to give away silly free kicks than McCarthy, so definately agree with that, and stearman, although defensiovely weaker than kenton would give us more attacking flair down the right, which we desperately need.

Also agree with the strikers, Hume and Fryatt both quality, with O'Grady and Hammond offering different options from the bench, although with Mr M hopefully investing, we need another striker

But disagree with the midfield. I do agree we have a lack of pace, but playing a geniune winger in centre midfield surely wont work. Porter or Welsh although may offer the killer ball, will get ripped apart by some of the tougher teams in this division. Tiatto on the left deserves his place at the moment, as he takes fantastic set pieces (sometimes!) and trys hard (bless him!) Porter or Welsh could also come on for Nils with Tiatto dropping back to LB if we need to create more in the second half. We need Weso in the middle, if anything just to get Johnson out of the side, and playing them both together is a recipe for disaster, with no attacking flair. We DESPERATELY need a quality centre midfielder with pace, killer ball and desire to get forward and score. This was what both Hughes and Williams were bought for but both haven't managed to fulfill this role.

Didnt intend to write an essay....just kind of happened!!!!

[Thracian]

I like most of those suggestions!

I agree with the goalkeeper, not sure anybody would disagree.

Also agree with the defenders, Not a johannson fan but what other options do we currently have. McAuley and Kisnorbo are both more solid and less likely to give away silly free kicks than McCarthy, so definately agree with that, and stearman, although defensiovely weaker than kenton would give us more attacking flair down the right, which we desperately need.

Also agree with the strikers, Hume and Fryatt both quality, with O'Grady and Hammond offering different options from the bench, although with Mr M hopefully investing, we need another striker

But disagree with the midfield. I do agree we have a lack of pace, but playing a geniune winger in centre midfield surely wont work. Porter or Welsh although may offer the killer ball, will get ripped apart by some of the tougher teams in this division. Tiatto on the left deserves his place at the moment, as he takes fantastic set pieces (sometimes!) and trys hard (bless him!) Porter or Welsh could also come on for Nils with Tiatto dropping back to LB if we need to create more in the second half. We need Weso in the middle, if anything just to get Johnson out of the side, and playing them both together is a recipe for disaster, with no attacking flair. We DESPERATELY need a quality centre midfielder with pace, killer ball and desire to get forward and score. This was what both Hughes and Williams were bought for but both haven't managed to fulfill this role.

Didnt intend to write an essay....just kind of happened!!!!

Williams alwys seems to be injured when you need him!

[Fez of Mahrez]

I like most of those suggestions!

I agree with the goalkeeper, not sure anybody would disagree.

Also agree with the defenders, Not a johannson fan but what other options do we currently have. McAuley and Kisnorbo are both more solid and less likely to give away silly free kicks than McCarthy, so definately agree with that, and stearman, although defensiovely weaker than kenton would give us more attacking flair down the right, which we desperately need.

Also agree with the strikers, Hume and Fryatt both quality, with O'Grady and Hammond offering different options from the bench, although with Mr M hopefully investing, we need another striker

But disagree with the midfield. I do agree we have a lack of pace, but playing a geniune winger in centre midfield surely wont work. Porter or Welsh although may offer the killer ball, will get ripped apart by some of the tougher teams in this division. Tiatto on the left deserves his place at the moment, as he takes fantastic set pieces (sometimes!) and trys hard (bless him!) Porter or Welsh could also come on for Nils with Tiatto dropping back to LB if we need to create more in the second half. We need Weso in the middle, if anything just to get Johnson out of the side, and playing them both together is a recipe for disaster, with no attacking flair. We DESPERATELY need a quality centre midfielder with pace, killer ball and desire to get forward and score. This was what both Hughes and Williams were bought for but both haven't managed to fulfill this role.

Didnt intend to write an essay....just kind of happened!!!!

Fair play mate but basically you're saying the answer to our problems in midfield is signing a quality central midfielder with pace, killer ball and desire to get forward and score.

And in the absence of any money for said player?

[filbertway]

Fair play mate but basically you're saying the answer to our problems in midfield is signing a quality central midfielder with pace, killer ball and desire to get forward and score.

And in the absence of any money for said player?

Who needs money when we have the academy, there must be one in their who can play a decent ball run fast and actually want to leave his own half.

[Fez of Mahrez]

Who needs money when we ahve the academy, there msut be one in their who can play a decent ball run fast and actually want to leave his own half.

Out of anyone, Andy King is closest to that as far as central midfielders go but he's still not the quickest.

My intention was to show that we can make the most of our first-team squad without resorting to playing defenders in midfield, untried Academy players who should never be seen as the answer to our First XI problems without being blooded first in the first team and Andy Johnson.

[sam_lcfc]

Fair play mate but basically you're saying the answer to our problems in midfield is signing a quality central midfielder with pace, killer ball and desire to get forward and score.

And in the absence of any money for said player?

Well im hoping that Manadric or whoever invests (IF!) will mean a reasonable January Kitty. We obviously can't go OTT in January as we dont want to comprimise our future but a central midfielder as i said really should be first on the list, not a striker as Kelly seems to want. Who to buy though...and would a good championship or average premiership midfielder really want to come to Leicester at the moment?!

[vanfox12]

Well im hoping that Manadric or whoever invests (IF!) will mean a reasonable January Kitty. We obviously can't go OTT in January as we dont want to comprimise our future but a central midfielder as i said really should be first on the list, not a striker as Kelly seems to want. Who to buy though...and would a good championship or average premiership midfielder really want to come to Leicester at the moment?!

All depends on who takes over the club be it Mandaric or someone else and more to the point where we are in the league come January.

[Simon]

Firstly I just have to say don't read this if you don't want to. I don't usually write essays but allow me this one.

So, the midfield. Embarrassing.

It's difficult to criticise when we've won a game or got a point from a tricky away match and I'm sure I'll be accused of being reactionary but I'm going to go for it anyway.

Not enough pace in the midfield. Simple as. It's 4-4-2 for the sake of it rather than as part of a designated game plan.

Where are the options? With no target men up front, we are forced to play through the midfield. When we begin an attack, the player in possession at the back should see options left, right and centre. The worrying thing is that people think Williams will solve everything. He won't. On the strength of the Southampton game then he may improve things slightly, but he won't solve the fundamental problem with our midfield - the lack of pace. Fast wingers and a slow central midfield works with a targetman. With the strikers we have (Fryatt and Hume are quality players whose strengths we should be playing to), the emphasis should be on playing the ball through the midfield and midfielders running from deep to offer support. We have none of this. The most effective example I've seen of us doing this was Tiatto on Tuesday night, offering an option for the strikers to lay it off to in order to shoot.

You can forget any notion of Johnson supporting the attack. Stearman on the right has to hold his position because Kenton doesn't offer an overlap. Same on the left hand side with Johansson. Hughes is usually too busy looking for the balls Johnson is shying away from receiving to be on the end of any knockdowns further up the pitch. Welsh is a winger who needs someone in the box who can attack his crosses, preferably in the air.

There are just so many things wrong with the way we approach the game. It's not as simple as selecting attacking players and going for the throat, you've got to look at the failings in the approach and the remedies for this. It's not simply a case of trying someone that hasn't been in the side before - it's about playing to your strengths and selecting a team that will get the best out of your star players, adapting existing first-team players to make a more effective unit.

So while we can put aside the obvious 3-5-2 solution, let's look at how 4-4-2 can suit us after all.

Goalkeeper: Impressed with Logan. Hope he continues to look as commanding for years to come in a Leicester City goalkeeping jersey.

Defence: We need an overlap on one side at least. While this threatens to bring up the dreaded Sheehan debate, let's put him aside for a moment and concentrate on the players currently at the club. In the absence of anybody else, Johansson stays at left-back. Kisnorbo first name on the team sheet, personally I'd have McAuley alongside him but that's just personal preference. Stearman at right-back. I was impressed with Kenton at first but in the absence of a reliable right-sided midfielder, we need a full-back who can help out in attack.

Midfield: Needs pace. Still needs a defensive player to help out. No need for wingers as we have no-one to attack the crosses into the box and they are few and far between anyway with the likes of Low and Sylla. Right side of midfield: drum roll. When fit... James Wesolowski. Cue barrage of missiles. Okay, here's why. Combative and tidy on the ball, lots of energy, really good burst of pace. Good understanding with his best mate Stearman as seen in the Villa game. For my liking, it appears that he may go missing from games a bit too much to be a consistent and reliable holding midfielder alongside a workshy fop like Williams.

Left side - Tiatto.

In the middle - never Johnson. Would do to him what Kelly did to Sylla at the start of the season and wouldn't have him back unless we were desperate. He's not the worst player we've ever had but he limits us so much. With Tiatto and Weso playing as part of a narrow midfield four, there's less need for battlers or defensive players in the middle. So you play either Hughes or Williams with either Welsh or Porter. One for the clever passes, one for the pace and support from midfield. So much adaptability in there - if we are getting battered then put Tiatto and Weso in the middle, Welsh or Porter out wide and Hughes on the right. Any combination really.

Fryatt and Hume up front. With decent support = goals.

Sorry. I just had to get it off my chest.

Fez, I think you may have hit on something.

It certainly would provide options from midfield to our strikers which is sadly lacking at the moment.

It also has the adaptability to provide flexibility when we need to go for a plan B (something we currently don't have).

I'd say its definitely worth a try

Except I'd be much more comfortable with McCarthy at the back than McAuley...

[adfoxes4]

hi, new to forum but need to share my anger somewhere after going to sheffield today. firstly i agree we desperately need a midfielder who can a) run faster than 2mph and b) support the attack with through balls and runs. i also wouldnt mind a dennis wise/robbie savage like player altho i suppose tiatto and weso can be like them. lastly i just want to add that if anybody wishes to see andy johnson have an accident then it can be arranged

[Thracian]

Out of anyone, Andy King is closest to that as far as central midfielders go but he's still not the quickest.

My intention was to show that we can make the most of our first-team squad without resorting to playing defenders in midfield, untried Academy players who should never be seen as the answer to our First XI problems without being blooded first in the first team and Andy Johnson.

I'm with you 100% on the "blooding". But if there's no reserves and Kelly never takes the chance to bench people like King/Gradel when the opportunity arises (like today), then when will it happen?.

[Thracian]

I hope it's not just stating the obvious. That clearly wasn't my intention - I just get sick of reading about how we should play more attacking football - it's not that simple. It needs to have a basis for it to work.

I and others have talked about adjusting the system countless times.

Playing 4-3-3 with Hammond, Hume, Fryatt was one suggestion.

Playing Hammond, O'Grady, Fryatt with Hume in midfield was another. The purpose of those ideas was to maintain some physical strength, increase our goal threat and have someone coming through from midfield.

I cannot see the problem with either idea really seeing we are so bad on our right wing and so bad in attacking midfield, in fact midfield generally. But no. Neither idea is even touched on. There is no plan B as has been clear in other matches recently.

The 4-3-3 could easily have been tried today.

[spirefox]

Can't agree.Hammond was subbed at half time,then Welsh and Sylla brought on with Tiatto moving to the middle. Looked like 4-4-2 changed to 4-2-4.It didn't work but it nearly did.

[teblin]

When all are fit it has to be williams and weso in the middle.

[dandannieldanok]

When all are fit it has to be williams and weso in the middle.

Definitely, Weso to win the ball and play the simple, effective pass and Williams to spread the play and create chances.

[dandannieldanok]

I fear one problem major problem might come out of saturday's terrible performance in midfield. Josh Low may be back in favour.

[OriginalRobboFOX]

At the mo our midfield is square pegs in round holes. I'd give my left teste to get Joey G back. Apparently hes not gettin much action at AZ.

I think we can all agree that our best four midfileders are Hughes, Williams, Weso and erm er.... We need players that can play in the positions we need them to. We just need two wingers. You can sack off Tiatto, Johnson, Low, Sylla and Welsh cos its not happenin. Also dont think Porter will make it either.

Hughes is not a right winger so dont play him there. We have 3 good central midfielders who when fit and available are good enough for CCC. We also have Ricky Stears who could mature into a defensive midfielder if needed.

I dont even know what Im tryin to say anymore...

I suppose just that we need two wingers....

Come on Pipes get fit kid.....

[l444ry]

The main problem with this, Fez, is that it would be asking Rob Kelly to do what is against his nature. The midfield is constantly being slagged off whoever it consists of. Rob Kelly likes the team to sit deep and try to break in support of the long pass to the strikers. Usually the strikers can't hold the ball or the ball forward does not have enough quality to allow any midfielders to join in. In general this has worked for him. The day a manager of a professional football league club panders to the latest criticism is the day he should resign. And there's no certainty that playing a different style would succeed anyway. We have to assume that Kelly knows better than us what the strengths and weaknesses of his squad are.

[Fez of Mahrez]

The main problem with this, Fez, is that it would be asking Rob Kelly to do what is against his nature. The midfield is constantly being slagged off whoever it consists of. Rob Kelly likes the team to sit deep and try to break in support of the long pass to the strikers. Usually the strikers can't hold the ball or the ball forward does not have enough quality to allow any midfielders to join in. In general this has worked for him. The day a manager of a professional football league club panders to the latest criticism is the day he should resign. And there's no certainty that playing a different style would succeed anyway. We have to assume that Kelly knows better than us what the strengths and weaknesses of his squad are.

I agree entirely. You describe his style perfectly, but it is an awful way to set up a football team. My main point is that he's quite happy to use pace on the flanks but that doesn't really suit us, we'd be better off employing it through the middle and playing through the middle as much as possible. At the moment we simply can't, because as you say he likes to use deep-lying central midfielders who don't support the attack.

Another point I'd make is that while everyone seems to think we will be sorted with Weso and Williams in central midfield, with their injury record it's pie in the sky. We need to find a more reliable plan. Although I've pencilled in Weso, you could stick Maybury there to do a similar job to lesser effect.

Of course Kelly is in the best place to pick his team and should stick to what he thinks is best but my fear is that this defensive mindset will only take us so far and eventually he will be out of a job through his caution. The days of someone like Keith Weller are way before my time but to think that we were known in the 70s under Bloomfield for our attacking football, to go from that to the spoiling tactics we now employ with either at least three essentially defensive midfielders in any one line-up or sub-standard wingers with no-one to cross the ball to, it's too depressing not to try and put across how I think we should be playing.

That's not to say I think we need to play gung-ho, there's plenty of caution in the midfield I've suggested - but if you're going to play someone like Johnson, he has to make up for his lack of attacking impetus by controlling games, putting in some tough tackling and stamping his authority on the opposition midfield. I'm surprised I was able to type out that sentence without falling about laughing.

[Thracian]

The main problem with this, Fez, is that it would be asking Rob Kelly to do what is against his nature. The midfield is constantly being slagged off whoever it consists of. Rob Kelly likes the team to sit deep and try to break in support of the long pass to the strikers. Usually the strikers can't hold the ball or the ball forward does not have enough quality to allow any midfielders to join in. In general this has worked for him. The day a manager of a professional football league club panders to the latest criticism is the day he should resign. And there's no certainty that playing a different style would succeed anyway. We have to assume that Kelly knows better than us what the strengths and weaknesses of his squad are.

Well he won't win anything playing in the current manner and it's not worked really either. We've never been above halfway and have constantly drawn too many games, last season and this.

The strikers rarely get a handful of decent passes in a month let alone a game. Macclesfield was the last match I remember when there was some attempt at sustained close passing and moving.

Kelly certainly ought to know our strengths and weaknesses best (depends anyway on the way you want to play) but football is littered with far more managerial failures than successes so the idea they always no best is highly questionable.

And in any case there are problems facing every manager that are nothing to do with their preferred choices but more to do with the seniority of people, the amount those people are being paid, pressure from agents, the need to put underperforming players in the shop window, aspects of diplomacy and harmony, injuries etc.

We have probably never played our best team in over 15 months now but this is not really about what Kelly thinks is our best team it is about how he wants to play.

I thought there were signs beginning to show of an attacking commitment but no and I'm afraid that if he wants to play as you've described we're in for more and more of the same broadly negative supposedly hard-to-beat football which has never threatened to take us to any great heights. And that's what concerns me.

Not whether Kelly is capable of grinding out enough points to keep us in the division. He seems to have established that. The question now is can he develop our team so that it can win things?. He's a long way off that and he won't do it in the manner you've described. It's far too easy to counter.

Teams like Hull, Colchester and Burnley have regularly demonstrated that.