Disappearing players

[Thracian]

God knows how long it has been since Levi Porter and Chris O'Grady had anything to do with a Leicester City team.

I wonder when our local media are going to find out the reasons why, because they all seem pretty vague to me.

Again, Leicester City are wonderful at taking the fans money and being patronising about their custom but they don't seem to have the decency to keep them informed properly about what is going on...

We had a sketchy report of the Academy match last week, neglecting to mention a sending off, and no-one seems to have any idea why Levi's out of contention, though I've now heard two totally different theories.

The same goes with Chris O'Grady who, according to rumour, either has the most persistent injury or has also been disciplined once more and who knows which, if either is true?. Meanwhile, our team is looking shit, in fact its starting to look just the same as it looked when we started the season in such embarrassing style.

Why don't the media give us some answers?.

They surely have enough space to incorporate such facts among the general pre and post-match waffle.

If Kelly doesn't want to say whether they are ill, or perhaps that someone's been disciplined for some reason, then fair enough, although a bit hypocritical from a guy who wanted to be a journalist I'd say. But, the media can always say RK preferred not to answer in their columns.

Not that the fans seem especially bothered about either player.

[Master Fox]

God knows how long it has been since Levi Porter and Chris O'Grady had anything to do with a Leicester City team.

I wonder when our local media are going to find out the reasons why, because they all seem pretty vague to me.

Again, Leicester City are wonderful at taking the fans money and being patronising about their custom but they don't seem to have the decency to keep them informed properly about what is going on...

We had a sketchy report of the Academy match last week, neglecting to mention a sending off, and no-one seems to have any idea why Levi's out of contention, though I've now heard two totally different theories.

The same goes with Chris O'Grady who, according to rumour, either has the most persistent injury or has also been disciplined once more and who knows which, if either is true?. Meanwhile, our team is looking shit, in fact its starting to look just the same as it looked when we started the season in such embarrassing style.

Why don't the media give us some answers?.

They surely have enough space to incorporate such facts among the general pre and post-match waffle.

If Kelly doesn't want to say whether they are ill, or perhaps that someone's been disciplined for some reason, then fair enough, although a bit hypocritical from a guy who wanted to be a journalist I'd say. But, the media can always say RK preferred not to answer in their columns.

Not that the fans seem especially bothered about either player.

Got that right.

[Guest]

We've been on an unbeaten run without either featuring. Some might say Kelly' got it right?

[Fez of Mahrez]

We've been on an unbeaten run without either featuring. Some might say Kelly' got it right?

I agree about COG. Not good enough.

God knows what's happened to Porter. But we haven't missed him.

[Dr The Singh]

God knows how long it has been since Levi Porter and Chris O'Grady had anything to do with a Leicester City team.

I wonder when our local media are going to find out the reasons why, because they all seem pretty vague to me.

Again, Leicester City are wonderful at taking the fans money and being patronising about their custom but they don't seem to have the decency to keep them informed properly about what is going on...

We had a sketchy report of the Academy match last week, neglecting to mention a sending off, and no-one seems to have any idea why Levi's out of contention, though I've now heard two totally different theories.

The same goes with Chris O'Grady who, according to rumour, either has the most persistent injury or has also been disciplined once more and who knows which, if either is true?. Meanwhile, our team is looking shit, in fact its starting to look just the same as it looked when we started the season in such embarrassing style.

Why don't the media give us some answers?.

They surely have enough space to incorporate such facts among the general pre and post-match waffle.

If Kelly doesn't want to say whether they are ill, or perhaps that someone's been disciplined for some reason, then fair enough, although a bit hypocritical from a guy who wanted to be a journalist I'd say. But, the media can always say RK preferred not to answer in their columns.

Not that the fans seem especially bothered about either player.

I'm afraid fans are very fickle, and the current run has lead to alot of us (fans) just forgetting those players, you've meantioned. I for one am very curious as to where they fit into RK's plan, both Porter and COG have impressed on occasions and are still learning there trade!!

[Thracian]

We've been on an unbeaten run without either featuring. Some might say Kelly' got it right?

If you honestly believe that I just despair.

But it does emphasise the problem at Leicester - our limited expectations in the absence of some fairy Godfather who fans still nievely believe is going to give them lots and lots of money and not expect lots and lots more in return.

You might be satisfied but we've won three, yes just three of our last 11 League matches and lost to Villa as well when we could easily have drawn.

Lots of teams can build unbeaten runs on the back of banks of defenders but the trouble is that while it's easy to draw it is not very easy to win and bloody impossible to ever get anywhere.

I thought for a while you were starting to embrace the idea of attacking. Old habits die hard, I guess. Why anyone would want to go back to the dour defence-dominated teams of the start of the season, and so much of last I simply fail to understand.

Anyway, I shouldn't think either will be much use to us anytime soon. Like Doddsy and Sheehan before, they will both be so match-rusty they'd be best to stay out of things or go on loan because the fans won't understand if they come back and are off the pace. And Lord knows how they'd stay on it.

[davieG]

They surely have enough space to incorporate such facts among the general pre and post-match waffle.

I

Not when they choose to print the unsubstantiated:

Milan Mandaric's £25m bid

across nearly every football report/commentary they don't

[davieG]

But it does emphasise the problem at Leicester - our limited expectations in the absence of some fairy Godfather who fans still nievely believe is going to give them lots and lots of money and not expect lots and lots more in return.

Are you implyying that MM bat's for the other side it really shouldn't make a difference

[Guest]

If you honestly believe that I just despair.

But it does emphasise the problem at Leicester - our limited expectations in the absence of some fairy Godfather who fans still nievely believe is going to give them lots and lots of money and not expect lots and lots more in return.

You might be satisfied but we've won three, yes just three of our last 11 League matches and lost to Villa as well when we could easily have drawn.

Lots of teams can build unbeaten runs on the back of banks of defenders but the trouble is that while it's easy to draw it is not very easy to win and bloody impossible to ever get anywhere.

I thought for a while you were starting to embrace the idea of attacking. Old habits die hard, I guess. Why anyone would want to go back to the dour defence-dominated teams of the start of the season, and so much of last I simply fail to understand.

Anyway, I shouldn't think either will be much use to us anytime soon. Like Doddsy and Sheehan before, they will both be so match-rusty they'd be best to stay out of things or go on loan because the fans won't understand if they come back and are off the pace. And Lord knows how they'd stay on it.

You see, this is what I object to. You make so many assumptions, like with the highlighted section. I find it patronising, it's like you've failed in a mission.

How you can infer that I'm happy with the way this club's being run, and with the standard of football from one snippet is beyond me. I'm not.

I don't advocate any one style of football; as much as I would like us to embrace our own style and have others have to accommodate would be fantastic, but it's not practicable, certainly not with the squad we have. I have always believed the best form of defence is attack. I'm sure anyone who watches a game with me would agree! But we a) aren't good enough, and b) need a stronger base before we can move forward. That doesn't mean being negative. It means getting in the right players to do the right job, and I've seen little evidence of it here. Round pegs in round holes?

Seeing you post the same thing over and over again brings out the Devil's Advocate in me. We are going nowhere fast, and Porter and COG are not the answer, neither is all out attack. If I had the answer, I wouldn't be here now.

[BartonFox]

Neither are good enough for our first team, pure and simple. Just because they hail from our Academy system doesn't mean they have an automatic right to play in our first team.

O'Grady is howling and Porter is too small, slow and predictable to ever make a league player.

The last 2 decent players we produced were Campbell and Wilson who mixed it in the Premiership and now plying their trade further down the football pyramid. Neither Porter or O'Grady are fit to lace their boots so get over the fact they've gone missing.

If the rumours are true of ill-discipline and 'Billy Big-Timemanship' from the pair then they can get to f'ck because they have no right whatsoever to demand this and that.

[Tubes]

o'grady is now 4th choice as the hammond/hume pairing worked

and i always thought porter seemed to drift in and out of the game

[Hullfox]

You see, this is what I object to. You make so many assumptions, like with the highlighted section. I find it patronising, it's like you've failed in a mission.

How you can infer that I'm happy with the way this club's being run, and with the standard of football from one snippet is beyond me. I'm not.

I don't advocate any one style of football; as much as I would like us to embrace our own style and have others have to accommodate would be fantastic, but it's not practicable, certainly not with the squad we have. I have always believed the best form of defence is attack. I'm sure anyone who watches a game with me would agree! But we a) aren't good enough, and b) need a stronger base before we can move forward. That doesn't mean being negative. It means getting in the right players to do the right job, and I've seen little evidence of it here. Round pegs in round holes?

Seeing you post the same thing over and over again brings out the Devil's Advocate in me. We are going nowhere fast, and Porter and COG are not the answer, neither is all out attack. If I had the answer, I wouldn't be here now.

In a nutshell.

We are a mid table championship side at best at the minute and we will not become anything greater in a hurry even with Doddsy and Porter in the line up, not even with Steve Beaglebum in charge.

It doesn't make me happy for one minute to be where we are but it is a) The reality and b) Better than I expected after Levein was sacked.

Our last 11 results including Carling Cup shows a record of W4 D5 L2.

Convert this to league form across a season and we'd end up with approx 70 points, last season we got 54 points in total, 70 would have had us finishing just outside the play offs - to me that's a step in the right direction. I don't think anyone is saying it's where we want to end up and life's a bed of roses but it's a start.

[dandannieldanok]

Porter must be worth a place on Saturday if Kelly is going to refuse to start Welsh for no apparent reason. With Tiatto's ban, the odds get shorted that he will be involved.

As for O'Grady, we should send him out on loan again. In my opinion, I think he dives too much and rarely wins the headers he should.

[Thracian]

Neither are good enough for our first team, pure and simple. Just because they hail from our Academy system doesn't mean they have an automatic right to play in our first team.

O'Grady is howling and Porter is too small, slow and predictable to ever make a league player.

The last 2 decent players we produced were Campbell and Wilson who mixed it in the Premiership and now plying their trade further down the football pyramid. Neither Porter or O'Grady are fit to lace their boots so get over the fact they've gone missing.

If the rumours are true of ill-discipline and 'Billy Big-Timemanship' from the pair then they can get to f'ck because they have no right whatsoever to demand this and that.

Much as I love reading your comments, your player assessments are decidedly iffy to me.

I remember watching Campbell, and thought he offered a bit of something, but Campbell hadn't a fraction of what Porter has to offer.

As for judging these players, I don't know how you'd wish to judge any young attackers in our team right now- because we simply lack the team to go around them. The mixture right now is just horrible.

As for ill-discipline we're well used to that at Leicester and not just from kids and it's been touched on before in this forum.

I don't know if you've ever brought teenaged kids up as I have but testing boundaries is like a magnet to them. Sooner or later they have to do it - just as so many extremely worthy people have tested boundaries all their lives.

Even assuming Porter and COG were immature enough to act as Big-time Charlies what do you suggest - that they don't deserve a career because of it. Our culture surrounds us with Big Time-Charlies and values that have no depth or sincerity.

Look at our jaunting Prime Minister, two-Jags Prescott or Mark Thatcher as examples - our world is full of such people just the same as it's full of four-wheel drives that have never been off a tramac road.

Self-seeking and shallow minded footballers are nothing new but, with any luck the teens and early 20's do grow up to have a bit more wisdom as they get older.

I've probably failed miserably - and have certainly made my own mistakes - but I've tried never to impose morality on anyone but to try at least to set an example, unworthy though it is. If Kelly does that and the people around him fail to respond, that's their misfortune.

But judge them on their football I say. Sooner or later - perhaps when they're having a leg set or are seeing a child of their's being cured of something they are helpless to do anything about - they'll learn to appreciate others. You acquire wisdom from parents and experience. You are not born with it.

[Thracian]

You see, this is what I object to. You make so many assumptions, like with the highlighted section. I find it patronising, it's like you've failed in a mission.

How you can infer that I'm happy with the way this club's being run, and with the standard of football from one snippet is beyond me. I'm not.

I don't advocate any one style of football; as much as I would like us to embrace our own style and have others have to accommodate would be fantastic, but it's not practicable, certainly not with the squad we have. I have always believed the best form of defence is attack. I'm sure anyone who watches a game with me would agree! But we a) aren't good enough, and b) need a stronger base before we can move forward. That doesn't mean being negative. It means getting in the right players to do the right job, and I've seen little evidence of it here. Round pegs in round holes?

Seeing you post the same thing over and over again brings out the Devil's Advocate in me. We are going nowhere fast, and Porter and COG are not the answer, neither is all out attack. If I had the answer, I wouldn't be here now.

You've certainly touched on a truth there. I do feel it is a mission to see an end to return to the sort of football which once brought so much joy to Leicester City fans.

And that doesn't mean old fashioned football. Their are exponents around today and there have been in the years between.

And it's not all about money. City never had much money in the 60's, Cloughie didn't have much money when he headed for Europe and Ipswich didn't have much money in the days of Mariner and Beatty et al.

What's it's about is attitude, belief and a team of people each of whom can do something a little bit special.

Our team has one or two such people, but the rest need replacing with people who do have talent.

I prefer such people to be young because they've got a longer shelf life but Teddy Sheringham was an ageing example of what I mean. Do you really say Johnson, Low, Kenton and Sylla have special talents?

Not all round special talents, but just something they can do better than almost anyone else?. Even at our level?.

We cannot wait for a stronger base to move forward. We are always waiting for tomorrow at Leicester. We must move forward now, and then move forward again. It is time to embrace the beauty of the game again and we need leaders from our directors downwards who are all united in that aim. Not who pay lip service but who demand it.

It is a mission to me and you are not the only one who regularly emphasises how difficult it will be to succeed in that mission, because you don't seem to have a built-in belief that balancing industry with skill is a far better bet than the safeness of endless industry and too little skill. Why, because a dour 1-0 seems preferable to you, and others, than an exciting 4-3 defeat. Some have even said as much.

But industrial Leicester does get beaten. And yes, even Beaglehole gets beaten sometimes. Yet nothing seems to deflect him from his belief that you'll only ever win things by attacking the game and suporting those attacks from front to back whether you have brilliant players or not. And where's that left him?. Top of the League this year, runner-up last year. Where has undiluted "hard-to-beat industry left us?

I remember Tommy Tejan-Sie last season. So diminutive. Completely dwarfed by his opponents but he never stopped running and trying to support people. Did Beaglehole lose faith. Not at all. He simply showed faith and kept waving him forward. Tom was no ready made genius.

But Tommy grew. Now, a year later he is a vital cog in the engine room of the Academy team's midfield.

long with the recently nieve but now lethally evasive and clinical Odhiambo, the reactionary but swift and direct Gradel, the impishly accurate Billy McKay, the skilled and elegant Andy King... Notice my adjectives . People who do things to a man . Not everything. Just their thing - and whatever else they learn.

Whether old or young, all our players need to have something special. You won't believe me but they don't HAVE to be youth players. Just talented players and, of course, you don't buy many talented players with no money so you have to use some of what you've got even if a bit earlier than would be ideal. But they learn - but they learn quicker in tandem with others who play the same type of football.

The alternative is awful. In some ways I wish our husslers had taken us down because then we'd have had no alternative but to rethink. But we survived. And now Kelly's taken us right back to our old grey-black blueprint once again. It's scrapyard soccer really. And it's getting us nowhere.

[London_Fox]

lost to Villa as well when we could easily have drawn.

How can you say that? We had an injury ravaged team that gave an unbelievable performance against Villa (one of the best of the season). We could just easily have won or lost that match with a bit of luck either way but I don't think you can link the result to Porter not playing (COG was injured and maybe still is).

I agree that we should know what's going on with players though...not just these two but generally it would be nice if the local media provided some sort of insight into what was going on at our club (something they rarely do...I don't ever remember them being anything other then mouthpeices really).

"If the rumours are true of ill-discipline and 'Billy Big-Timemanship' from the pair then they can get to f'ck because they have no right whatsoever to demand this and that."

Where are these rumours from?

[Thracian]

In a nutshell.

We are a mid table championship side at best at the minute and we will not become anything greater in a hurry even with Doddsy and Porter in the line up, not even with Steve Beaglebum in charge.

It doesn't make me happy for one minute to be where we are but it is a) The reality and b) Better than I expected after Levein was sacked.

Our last 11 results including Carling Cup shows a record of W4 D5 L2.

Convert this to league form across a season and we'd end up with approx 70 points, last season we got 54 points in total, 70 would have had us finishing just outside the play offs - to me that's a step in the right direction. I don't think anyone is saying it's where we want to end up and life's a bed of roses but it's a start.

Fourteen points from our last 10 League matches - and it is the League form you're talking about - would equate to 60 points compared to 54 last season not the 70 you'd like it to represent and our 21 points from 18 League games so far compares with 20 points from 18 last year so how you liken that to progress I don't know.

[De Vries The King]

When those two were dropped it strangely co-incides (hyphon or not??? ) with our unbeaten run starting, IMO they're both not really good enough as of yet to start in the team but they should both be on the bench and brought on in the last 2o minutes or so.

[Manwell Pablo]

You've certainly touched on a truth there. I do feel it is a mission to see an end to return to the sort of football which once brought so much joy to Leicester City fans.

And that doesn't mean old fashioned football. Their are exponents around today and there have been in the years between.

And it's not all about money. City never had much money in the 60's, Cloughie didn't have much money when he headed for Europe and Ipswich didn't have much money in the days of Mariner and Beatty et al.

What's it's about is attitude, belief and a team of people each of whom can do something a little bit special.

Our team has one or two such people, but the rest need replacing with people who do have talent.

I prefer such people to be young because they've got a longer shelf life but Tedddy Sherington was an ageing example of what I mean. Do you really say Johnson, Low, Kenton and Sylla have special talents?

Not all round special talents, but just something they can do better than almost anyone else?. Even at our level?.

We cannot wait for a stronger base to move forward. We are always waiting for tomorrow at Leicester. We must move forward now, and then move forward again. It is time to embrace the beauty of the game again and we need leaders from our directors downwards who are all united in that aim. Not who pay lip service but who demand it.

It is a mission to me and you are not the only one who regularly emphasises how difficult it will be to succeed in that mission, because you don't seem to have a built-in belief that balancing industry with skill is a far better bet than the safeness of endless industry and too little skill. Why, because a dour 1-0 seems preferable to you, and others, than an exciting 4-3 defeat. Some have even said as much.

But industrial Leicester does get beaten. And yes, even Beaglehole gets beaten sometimes. Yet nothing seems to deflect him from his belief that you'll only ever win things by attacking the game and suporting those attacks from front to back whether you have brilliant players or not. And where's that left him?. Top of the League this year, runner-up last year. Where has undiluted "hard-to-beat industry left us?

I remember Tommy Tejan-Sie last season. So diminutive. Completely dwarfed by his opponents but he never stopped running and trying to support people. Did Beaglehole lose faith. Not at all. He simply showed faith and kept waving him forward. Tom was no ready made genius.

But Tommy grew. Now, a year later he is a vital cog in the engine room of the Academy team's midfield.

long with the recently nieve but now lethally evasive and clinical Odhiambo, the reactionary but swift and direct Gradel, the impishly accurate Billy McKay, the skilled and elegant Andy King... Notice my adjectives . People who do things to a man . Not everything. Just their thing - and whatever else they learn.

Whether old or young, all our players need to have something special. You won't believe me but they don't HAVE to be youth players. Just talented players and, of course, you don't buy many talented players with no money so you have to use some of what you've got even if a bit earlier than would be ideal. But they learn - but they learn quicker in tandem with others who play the same type of football.

The alternative is awful. In some ways I wish our husslers had taken us down because then we'd have had no alternative but to rethink. But we survived. And now Kelly's taken us right back to our old grey-black blueprint once again. It's scrapyard soccer really. And it's getting us nowhere.

Getting on at Sylla when he's showing some improvement, typical.

And Unfortuantely, money is alot more important in this modern era than in the 90's never mind the 60's. Billionaire owners become the new PLC's as clubs look for new ways to be able to afford the best players.

I've read the rest about a hundred times before.

[Thracian]

Getting on at Sylla when he's showing some improvement, typical.

And Unfortuantely, money is alot more important in this modern era than in the 90's never mind the 60's. Billionaire owners become the new PLC's as clubs look for new ways to be able to afford the best players.

I've read the rest about a hundred times before.

If every team in the League had a billionaire owner one of them would finish as champions and one would be bottom. Nothing will ever negate the value of signing good but contrasting footballers, getting them really fit. playing to their indivdidual strengths, developing a good spirit and making sure you deal with any weaknesses promptly.

[PAULCFC]

Levi porter i'd give a few more games,but o'grady,every time i've seen him can't win headers,falls over too much and basically isn't good enough.

[Hullfox]

Fourteen points from our last 10 League matches - and it is the League form you're talking about - would equate to 60 points compared to 54 last season not the 70 you'd like it to represent and our 21 points from 18 League games so far compares with 20 points from 18 last year so how you liken that to progress I don't know.

It was you who quoted our last 11 games and I quite clearly said that our form including Carling Cup results transferred to league points would see us achieving circa 70 points.

If you do not think we've progressed from the Levein days I'm sorry.

[Leonisco]

I agree with alot of what you say Thracian, I see absolutely no reason why they should be frozen out (if that is the case, which to be fair we don't know whether it is or not). Even though they've not exactly set the world alight, they've done no worse than players like Hammond and Welsh.

I prefer such people to be young because they've got a longer shelf life but Tedddy Sherington was an ageing example of what I mean. Do you really say Johnson, Low, Kenton and Sylla have special talents?

Thrac I know old people are meant to be bad with names, but that's pretty bad!

[Thracian]

When those two were dropped it strangely co-incides (hyphon or not??? ) with our unbeaten run starting, IMO they're both not really good enough as of yet to start in the team but they should both be on the bench and brought on in the last 2o minutes or so.

It did, did it?

Well while you're looking with such jaundiced eyes at a record which included four draws in our eight game unbeaten run and which, incidentally Porter, contributed to perhaps you'll consider this.

Apart from all the pre-season victories he was involved in, Porter's first team record this season has resulted in four wins, three draws and two defeats. And if you look down his player ratings I think you'll find they compare, on average with the best rather than our worst performers on average.

In what way does that suggest he's not ready?. I think he did pretty well in what is, after all, his secondary position. I've not noticed the likes of Stearman (right wing), Hughes (right wing), Maybury (left back), doing very well at all in a secondary position.

And a few others haven't done very well in their primary position.

[Manwell Pablo]

It did, did it?

Well while you're looking with such jaundiced eyes at a record which included four draws in our eight game unbeaten run and which, incidentally Porter, contributed to perhaps you'll consider this.

Apart from all the pre-season victories he was involved in, Porter's first team record this season has resulted in four wins, three draws and two defeats. And if you look down his player ratings I think you'll find they compare, on average with the best rather than our worst performers on average.

In what way does that suggest he's not ready?. I think he did pretty well in what is, after all, his secondary position. I've not noticed the likes of Stearman (right wing), Hughes (right wing), Maybury (left back), doing very well at all in a secondary position.

And a few others haven't done very well in their primary position.

Yes Thrcain but his four wins are 45 mins against Ipswitch when we were winning when he came on, 45 minutes against Southend when we were winning when he came on, the worst team in the football league by a absloute mile and a newly promoted Conference team