Disappearing players

[Daggers]

I can't be arsed to read the essays in this thread...unless they have something to do with alien abduction or Paul Daniels. Someone let me know either way...

[Thracian]

Yes Thrcain but his four wins are 45 mins against Ipswitch when we were winning when he came on, 45 minutes against Southend when we were winning when he came on, the worst team in the football league by a absloute mile and a newly promoted Conference team

Bloody hell, Manwell we could go on like that about any list of statistics - didn't we draw at Birmingham after he came on and so forth. Or would we have beaten Leeds but for a vital goalline clearance near the end?.

The statistics cover nine games in which we were beaten twice. I'd be much more happy if all our players had that sort of record and all I am saying anyway is that he's got a decent decent record that doesn't suggest for one moment that he couldn't cope or was letting us down.

Something which his match-by-match ratings generally confirm, cue no doubt some lousy ratings next time he plays, assuming of course that he ever plays for us again!.

[Fez of Mahrez]

Bloody hell, Manwell we could go on like that about any list of statistics - didn't we draw at Birmingham after he came on and so forth. Or would we have beaten Leeds but for a vital goalline clearance near the end?.

The statistics cover nine games in which we were beaten twice. I'd be much more happy if all our players had that sort of record and all I am saying anyway is that he's got a decent decent record that doesn't suggest for one moment that he couldn't cope or was letting us down.

Something which his match-by-match ratings generally confirm, cue no doubt some lousy ratings next time he plays, assuming of course that he ever plays for us again!.

Apart from our recent unbeaten run, which you have belittled on numerous occasions.

I don't even know why I'm getting involved.

[Manwell Pablo]

Bloody hell, Manwell we could go on like that about any list of statistics - didn't we draw at Birmingham after he came on and so forth. Or would we have beaten Leeds but for a vital goalline clearance near the end?.

The statistics cover nine games in which we were beaten twice. I'd be much more happy if all our players had that sort of record and all I am saying anyway is that he's got a decent decent record that doesn't suggest for one moment that he couldn't cope or was letting us down.

Something which his match-by-match ratings generally confirm, cue no doubt some lousy ratings next time he plays, assuming of course that he ever plays for us again!.

His ratings have been average from what I can see, I for one think he should be involved in the first team it's just the way you seem to think he is one of the best players at the club annoys me as he isn't even close.

[Thracian]

His ratings have been average from what I can see, I for one think he should be involved in the first team it's just the way you seem to think he is one of the best players at the club annoys me as he isn't even close.

Depends what you mean by best players. I'd probably rate Kisnorbo our best player right now but I'd much rather have Levi making 100 x 10 metre passes into an empty bucket than Kisnorbo if my life depended on it.

[blue blood]

All,

First of all may I declare the pleasure I have had in reading this thread today.

I think we are touching on a number of deep things here, and if we are going that way why not…..

I strongly believe the one thing that makes a footballer, a good footballer, and a good footballer, a great footballer is not in the physical nature of their character but in their mental values.

It has been discussed in detail the impact mentors/tutors/role models can have on young impressionable teenagers. COG, Porter (and each and every member of the youth teams)...the thing these people have in common is that they have been with Leicester City from a young age (probably before their teens). If the correct impression is not made upon them during their young teens then the rest of the process is down to luck.

If one does not have a sense of Mental selfness how can they prove their worth? As we have the people within a collective environment, of a similar age and have a common goal (to be footballers) it is imperative they are nurtured into knowing how to mentally conceptualise the desire to improve and strive to exceed perfection, and nothing less. This must become second nature to each and every youngster which passes through our books before they prove their worth on the football field

It must be within the duties of the Academy to refine the mental abilities of the young to perfection.

I must admit Leicester City even under MON + Peter Taylor who you would have thought would instil a youth team blue print for the future have not (for many reasons I am sure).

We have a youth system like every other club around us does.

But it is not better than the next teams. If we look at the Forest team of the 80's the Ipswich team that won Euro cups, the Man U team of the 90's, the Ajax team of the 90's need i go on? These teams achieved greatness without really spending £10m on a single player or £100m on a team. they instead invested in finding and nurturing 5 or 6 players around the same age to be the heart beat of a team and squad. once you have 5 or 6 top drawer characters then you can add a sprinkling of experience etc.

Until we invest today and continually for the next 5-10 years – financially, networked on a global level - and with only the best personnel we will never have a 'Blue print' youth factory churning, hungry, thirsty, Blue blooded, die for the colleague and cause champions that can raise their physical game through mental pride and will, we will only hit on a Heskey every 5 years or so (as it will be down to luck).

Please note i am not in anyway having a go at the team at the moment as you can only do what your manager and directors want of you. If the message and support comes from the top all the way through to the bottom with unprecedented support, we will only ever have Stewarts, COG's Porters, Dodds etc.

This is the matter of the fact.

The alternative to this is being what we have been about for the past 120 years – mainly a second tier team.

Even a sugar daddy will only bring a blip of success without investing today for the fruits of the next 120 years.

[lookwhaticando]

What's this discipline rumour I've seen mentioned?

And what's the other rumour - some kind of serious injury nobody wants to talk about?

Details, details, details please.

[BartonFox]

Much as I love reading your comments, your player assessments are decidedly iffy to me.

I remember watching Campbell, and thought he offered a bit of something, but Campbell hadn't a fraction of what Porter has to offer.

Mine may seem iffy to you, but they are usually spot on, whereas your assessment of mediocre (at best) youth teamers is almost laughable. I wonder if you are their agent or on a wind up.

Campbell played in the Premiership, Porter will never hit those heights.

As for judging these players, I don't know how you'd wish to judge any young attackers in our team right now- because we simply lack the team to go around them. The mixture right now is just horrible.

Well their overall football ability is there for all to see and it is so far off the mark. Despite the poor season and displays of some of those senior players you dislike so much, you can see they have a first touch and ability. Those 2 are not even close to that standard and if they can't match them during this season then seriously they have no hope whatsoever. They should be firmly established by now but they are not even on the bench.

But judge them on their football I say. Sooner or later - perhaps when they're having a leg set or are seeing a child of their's being cured of something they are helpless to do anything about - they'll learn to appreciate others. You acquire wisdom from parents and experience. You are not born with it.

I have judged them on football and they are not good enough to be Leicester City first team players.

[MBK]

We've been on an unbeaten run without either featuring. Some might say Kelly' got it right?

Fired potatoes with mashed pepperoni.

Yeah mind you, with porter in fold we would have someone along weso and tiatto who wants to play.

And he did play much better than Welsh

[MBK]

God knows what's happened to Porter. But we haven't missed him.

We haven't!!! Then why does Kelly field everyone in RW who is cack. Lets Sylla s want to play though

[Ric Flair]

Stuart Campbell looked a very bright prospect when he first came though, as did Wilson. Both never reached the same heights again once they were moved on. I feel that will happen with a lot of our youngsters but that doesn't mean they can't help us out.

Porter impressed me this season, I can't see how anyone could be un-impressed with him. I know all of his trickery and attacking didn't lead to many assists but having said that he was playing in a team that wasn't winning much or scoring much. I still think he deserves another chance if he knuckles down, not to say that he isn't already doing that. It's frustrating that the reserve fixtures are no more as it's always good to see how the fringe players are getting on in the ressies.

O'Grady, i'm not sure on. Last season he helped us out a lot. He really did. He came on in the closing stages of matches and took the pressure off our defence as he pushed the opposition back. That's what i'm trying to say, these youngsters can help us. Whether they go on to ever play at our level for a great length of time is hard to predict but they can help out. This season he's not improved, he's been given a fair few starts and didn't impress me. I didn't go up to Sunderland where he had his best match for us, but in the games i saw him he was poor. Again, he was playing when we weren't winning and scoring. But he has to take some of the blame for that.

Don't write them off just yet, still both barely out of their teens.

[Thracian]

Stuart Campbell looked a very bright prospect when he first came though, as did Wilson. Both never reached the same heights again once they were moved on. I feel that will happen with a lot of our youngsters but that doesn't mean they can't help us out.

Porter impressed me this season, I can't see how anyone could be un-impressed with him. I know all of his trickery and attacking didn't lead to many assists but having said that he was playing in a team that wasn't winning much or scoring much. I still think he deserves another chance if he knuckles down, not to say that he isn't already doing that. It's frustrating that the reserve fixtures are no more as it's always good to see how the fringe players are getting on in the ressies.

O'Grady, i'm not sure on. Last season he helped us out a lot. He really did. He came on in the closing stages of matches and took the pressure off our defence as he pushed the opposition back. That's what i'm trying to say, these youngsters can help us. Whether they go on to ever play at our level for a great length of time is hard to predict but they can help out. This season he's not improved, he's been given a fair few starts and didn't impress me. I didn't go up to Sunderland where he had his best match for us, but in the games i saw him he was poor. Again, he was playing when we weren't winning and scoring. But he has to take some of the blame for that.

Don't write them off just yet, still both barely out of their teens.

Porter would have had a lot more assists if people like Hughes, Fryatt and even Hume (though I'll forgive him) had been sharp enough and composed enough to take em.

[Milky]

Things can change very quickly with young players. lennon and agbonlahor have come on a great deal since a couple of years back.

[The People's Hero]

Neither are good enough for our first team, pure and simple. Just because they hail from our Academy system doesn't mean they have an automatic right to play in our first team.

O'Grady is howling and Porter is too small, slow and predictable to ever make a league player.

The last 2 decent players we produced were Campbell and Wilson who mixed it in the Premiership and now plying their trade further down the football pyramid. Neither Porter or O'Grady are fit to lace their boots so get over the fact they've gone missing.

If the rumours are true of ill-discipline and 'Billy Big-Timemanship' from the pair then they can get to f'ck because they have no right whatsoever to demand this and that.

[Thracian]

Mine may seem iffy to you, but they are usually spot on, whereas your assessment of mediocre (at best) youth teamers is almost laughable. I wonder if you are their agent or on a wind up.

Campbell played in the Premiership, Porter will never hit those heights.

Well their overall football ability is there for all to see and it is so far off the mark. Despite the poor season and displays of some of those senior players you dislike so much, you can see they have a first touch and ability. Those 2 are not even close to that standard and if they can't match them during this season then seriously they have no hope whatsoever. They should be firmly established by now but they are not even on the bench.

I have judged them on football and they are not good enough to be Leicester City first team players.

You're not spot on about Campbell - his problem was what I've touched on before - he was steady but never outstanding at anything.

Porter is an excellent passer, long or short, who can retain possession in any team and possession is vital in modern football - always has been really.

I seem to recall you rooting for Sylla in the team the other day?. Sorry but I'll stick to my own judgement where players are concerned cos that lad, nice a guy as he is, will never make an effective right winger.

[eaststandtom]

Neither are good enough for our first team, pure and simple. Just because they hail from our Academy system doesn't mean they have an automatic right to play in our first team.

O'Grady is howling and Porter is too small, slow and predictable to ever make a league player.

The last 2 decent players we produced were Campbell and Wilson who mixed it in the Premiership and now plying their trade further down the football pyramid. Neither Porter or O'Grady are fit to lace their boots so get over the fact they've gone missing.

If the rumours are true of ill-discipline and 'Billy Big-Timemanship' from the pair then they can get to f'ck because they have no right whatsoever to demand this and that.

O'Grady needs to score a goal or two.

he can be a good player. strong, good touch, can turn. what you want out of a target man.

give him a chance

as for porter he has played about 5/6 games dont write him off just yet

[Guest]

And it's not all about money. City never had much money in the 60's, Cloughie didn't have much money when he headed for Europe and Ipswich didn't have much money in the days of Mariner and Beatty et al.

Nobody had money in those days. Players weren't in it for the money as much. If you've read anything I've written, surely you'd realise that I believe money has killed the game.

Do you really say Johnson, Low, Kenton and Sylla have special talents?

I've never said anything of the sort. Kenton apart (he's a capable player at this level), the other three would not be missed if they were to go. Not by me anyway.

We cannot wait for a stronger base to move forward. We are always waiting for tomorrow at Leicester. We must move forward now, and then move forward again. It is time to embrace the beauty of the game again and we need leaders from our directors downwards who are all united in that aim. Not who pay lip service but who demand it.

We don't have the capability to change; we don't have the right balance of players. I've had the benefit of listening to the top and what they want. They want the same as us. They want to come to games and to be excited. But they do not know how to go about it, apart from seeing the pot of gold at the end of the PL rainbow. So they scrape around for what's been lost behind the sofa, give it to Kelly and say "get us up". And so on. I'm not saying things are going the right way, or that Kelly is doing a grand job under the circumstances. But I can see the limitations in our way. Defeatist? Realist, I'd say.

It is a mission to me and you are not the only one who regularly emphasises how difficult it will be to succeed in that mission, because you don't seem to have a built-in belief that balancing industry with skill is a far better bet than the safeness of endless industry and too little skill. Why, because a dour 1-0 seems preferable to you, and others, than an exciting 4-3 defeat. Some have even said as much.

What do you base that assumption on? Did you not register my previous post? I get the feeling you have made up your mind regarding my personality, and you only read what you want to read.

But industrial Leicester does get beaten. And yes, even Beaglehole gets beaten sometimes. Yet nothing seems to deflect him from his belief that you'll only ever win things by attacking the game and suporting those attacks from front to back whether you have brilliant players or not. And where's that left him?. Top of the League this year, runner-up last year. Where has undiluted "hard-to-beat industry left us?

Balance is the way forwards. Teams like Manure advocate that theory.

I remember Tommy Tejan-Sie last season. So diminutive. Completely dwarfed by his opponents but he never stopped running and trying to support people. Did Beaglehole lose faith. Not at all. He simply showed faith and kept waving him forward. Tom was no ready made genius.

But Tommy grew. Now, a year later he is a vital cog in the engine room of the Academy team's midfield.

long with the recently nieve but now lethally evasive and clinical Odhiambo, the reactionary but swift and direct Gradel, the impishly accurate Billy McKay, the skilled and elegant Andy King... Notice my adjectives . People who do things to a man . Not everything. Just their thing - and whatever else they learn.

They are up against boys, not men, of a similar age, build and experience. Maybe we've struck lucky, or maybe they are simply good for their age. They've 10 years or so before reaching their prime. I would love that to happen, and I would love them to be playing for us when it does happen. But how many lads in say academies from the top two divisions are still playing at that level as adults? The number of foreign players in this country suggest not many. I'm not pinning my hopes on it. You perhaps see pessimism, I again prefer to call it realism.

Whether old or young, all our players need to have something special. You won't believe me but they don't HAVE to be youth players. Just talented players and, of course, you don't buy many talented players with no money so you have to use some of what you've got even if a bit earlier than would be ideal. But they learn - but they learn quicker in tandem with others who play the same type of football.

The top teams in the country don't gamble with their kids like that. Again, it's balance. Rather than taking an objective view, I would be more subjective. Without a reserve team to bring kids through, I can't comment anymore on individual players, but that situation will make blooding them less likely to happen, if you ask me. But that's another matter.

The alternative is awful. In some ways I wish our husslers had taken us down because then we'd have had no alternative but to rethink. But we survived. And now Kelly's taken us right back to our old grey-black blueprint once again. It's scrapyard soccer really. And it's getting us nowhere.

Like I say, you only read what you want to read as far as I am concerned. And I am concerned.

[DanTheFoxBhoy]

We probably just have better options atm. Maybury disappeared for a while and everyone just expected him to be shipped off to Sunderland.

[lookwhaticando]

We probably just have better options atm. Maybury disappeared for a while and everyone just expected him to be shipped off to Sunderland.

Blame the board for urinating on that particular option.

[Thracian]

Nobody had money in those days. Players weren't in it for the money as much. If you've read anything I've written, surely you'd realise that I believe money has killed the game.

I've never said anything of the sort. Kenton apart (he's a capable player at this level), the other three would not be missed if they were to go. Not by me anyway.

We don't have the capability to change; we don't have the right balance of players. I've had the benefit of listening to the top and what they want. They want the same as us. They want to come to games and to be excited. But they do not know how to go about it, apart from seeing the pot of gold at the end of the PL rainbow. So they scrape around for what's been lost behind the sofa, give it to Kelly and say "get us up". And so on. I'm not saying things are going the right way, or that Kelly is doing a grand job under the circumstances. But I can see the limitations in our way. Defeatist? Realist, I'd say.

What do you base that assumption on? Did you not register my previous post? I get the feeling you have made up your mind regarding my personality, and you only read what you want to read.

Balance is the way forwards. Teams like Manure advocate that theory.

They are up against boys, not men, of a similar age, build and experience. Maybe we've struck lucky, or maybe they are simply good for their age. They've 10 years or so before reaching their prime. I would love that to happen, and I would love them to be playing for us when it does happen. But how many lads in say academies from the top two divisions are still playing at that level as adults? The number of foreign players in this country suggest not many. I'm not pinning my hopes on it. You perhaps see pessimism, I again prefer to call it realism.

The top teams in the country don't gamble with their kids like that. Again, it's balance. Rather than taking an objective view, I would be more subjective. Without a reserve team to bring kids through, I can't comment anymore on individual players, but that situation will make blooding them less likely to happen, if you ask me. But that's another matter.

Like I say, you only read what you want to read as far as I am concerned. And I am concerned.

I did compile a reply but a) it'll never make us see eye to eye and b) Hullfox will only come riding to your defence with some iffy statistics, whatever I say ...

PS: Only joking with that last bit before anyone takes me seriously.

[Guest]

I did compile a reply but a) it'll never make us see eye to eye and b) Hullfox will only come riding to your defence with some iffy statistics, whatever I say ...

PS: Only joking with that last bit before anyone takes me seriously.

I think we both want the same thing, but we both look at different ways of getting there. Perhaps if you bear that in mind, you might see that I'm not the defensive-minded footballing heathen you have painted me out to be.

PS. I couldn't ask for a better knight in shining armour!

[Thracian]

I think we both want the same thing, but we both look at different ways of getting there. Perhaps if you bear that in mind, you might see that I'm not the defensive-minded footballing heathen you have painted me out to be.

PS. I couldn't ask for a better knight in shining armour!

Okay, I'm convinced.

And, perhaps I'm just jealous of Hullfox!.

[cisono]

God knows how long it has been since Levi Porter and Chris O'Grady had anything to do with a Leicester City team.

I wonder when our local media are going to find out the reasons why, because they all seem pretty vague to me.

Again, Leicester City are wonderful at taking the fans money and being patronising about their custom but they don't seem to have the decency to keep them informed properly about what is going on...

We had a sketchy report of the Academy match last week, neglecting to mention a sending off, and no-one seems to have any idea why Levi's out of contention, though I've now heard two totally different theories.

The same goes with Chris O'Grady who, according to rumour, either has the most persistent injury or has also been disciplined once more and who knows which, if either is true?. Meanwhile, our team is looking shit, in fact its starting to look just the same as it looked when we started the season in such embarrassing style.

[/b]Why don't the media give us some answers?.[/b]

They surely have enough space to incorporate such facts among the general pre and post-match waffle.

If Kelly doesn't want to say whether they are ill, or perhaps that someone's been disciplined for some reason, then fair enough, although a bit hypocritical from a guy who wanted to be a journalist I'd say. But, the media can always say RK preferred not to answer in their columns.

Not that the fans seem especially bothered about either player.

The media are not there to give us answers or even accurate, factual info.

They are just there to draw attention to some things, and disguise/minimise others.

In general, they are there to manipulate public opinion.

Hence, it does not surprise me at all that we have had no answers on this one (or many other things).

I suggest we set up our own PI firm and find out by ourselves

[Thracian]

The media are not there to give us answers or even accurate, factual info.

They are just there to draw attention to some things, and disguise/minimise others.

In general, they are there to manipulate public opinion.

Hence, it does not surprise me at all that we have had no answers on this one (or many other things).

I suggest we set up our own PI firm and find out by ourselves

You're right but we're a long, long way from the days of the late Lawrie Simpkin when, if a player farted, the City fans got wind of it so to speak.

I certainly think it's a pity the Leicester Evening Mail ever closed and the Mercury was left without any proper competition on our streets.

But it's not just the Mercury is it. The club has an Official Site which guards its status jealously and yet fails to keep us quickly and fully informed on various issues (and I'm not talking private and confidential either).

Then there's Radio Leicester.

I rarely listen to it now, but the impression I get from these columns is that they drop more factual clangers on matchdays than a team of bellringers engage on a night's practice.

It's not good enough but it's damned hard to imagine anything being done about it.

[De Vries The King]

It did, did it?

Well while you're looking with such jaundiced eyes at a record which included four draws in our eight game unbeaten run and which, incidentally Porter, contributed to perhaps you'll consider this.

Apart from all the pre-season victories he was involved in, Porter's first team record this season has resulted in four wins, three draws and two defeats. And if you look down his player ratings I think you'll find they compare, on average with the best rather than our worst performers on average.

In what way does that suggest he's not ready?. I think he did pretty well in what is, after all, his secondary position. I've not noticed the likes of Stearman (right wing), Hughes (right wing), Maybury (left back), doing very well at all in a secondary position.

And a few others haven't done very well in their primary position.

I aplogise, I didn't do my research before replying I felt that my opinion was enough but I can understand why you are feeling slightly agrieved at that. If I ever become a newspaper journalist I realise now that I will only ever be one for The Sun or Star. Facts and figures clearly mean everything when stating an opinion and in future I will search thoroughly for statistics for an average youngster of league one or two quality. My dearest Thracian I hope my apology is fully accepted. :pinch: