Scow Posted 9 January 2005 Posted 9 January 2005 I've noticed that ever since Levein took over, he's introduced a form of zonal marking at set pieces. However, it seemingly doesn't work as we've conceded quite a few from corners and free kicks recently. When a free kick or corner is an inswinger, we can't handle them. Because players are being asked to mark an area, the opposition have an advantage already as they have a running start to attack the ball. And another thing - Why does Connolly come back for corners? If we clear the ball, we have no outlet then, hence why we create pressure upon ourself as the opposition can stay in our half. Bloody annoying.
TrickyTrev Posted 9 January 2005 Posted 9 January 2005 The theory of zonal marking is that it allows you to put your best headerers where youw nat them to be, and thus not letting them be dragged away by dummy runners, ala sol campbell Arsenal V Chelsea. Man marking is also open to individual error and high concentration, soemthing forwards are not always capable of. Zonal amrking is a alot more simple, stand here and if the ball comes near you head it, but perosnally at the top level I think you need a man marking system with 2 spare men who do not have the distraction of a man to mark.
Hullfox Posted 9 January 2005 Posted 9 January 2005 The thing about it is it is based upon responsibility of individuals. Man to man marking can be used by the attacking team to draw players away from key positions when strikers spin off defenders. They can also block key defenders. The key to zonal marking when I played was that the defenders needed to be agressive which is where we are lacking at the moment in set pieces. You really have to attack the ball if it falls within your territory. It is suited to more agressive, strong defenders in my experience. Maybe this answers why Stearman is not yet involved greatly and certainly why Maybury has been purchased. It however does not work if like our three yesterday you just remain rooted to the spot when the ball is crossed.
Mark Posted 9 January 2005 Posted 9 January 2005 Even if we do clear it, it's just giving the opposion a chance to attack immediately again because everyone is back defending - a great example of this is the QPR mayhem in the second half. Levein's tactics are so defensive.
Anish Posted 9 January 2005 Posted 9 January 2005 And another thing - Why does Connolly come back for corners? If we clear the ball, we have no outlet then, hence why we create pressure upon ourself as the opposition can stay in our half.Bloody annoying. 53231[/snapback] Even if we do clear it, it's just giving the opposion a chance to attack immediately again because everyone is back defending - a great example of this is the QPR mayhem in the second half. Levein's tactics are so defensive. 53261[/snapback] This is pissed off off so much since Levein took over. Every single player back for set pieces is crazy. So if we clear the ball then it will simply come straight back at us. Where's the sense in that Levein??
Babylon Posted 9 January 2005 Posted 9 January 2005 Levein's tactics are so defensive. 53261[/snapback] Sack him...
chambo_9 Posted 9 January 2005 Posted 9 January 2005 we dont zonal mark (academy teams) we have ppl in zonal position eg on the six yard box in the middle of the goal to clear n e thing that goes there but we have 4 main markers normally but yesterday wen we played reading they were gd at set peices and one of them they had 2 dummy runners and then one was the one who the ball got aimed at and sometimes we had one of our poorer headers/markers with him so zonal marking is gd and bad
Hullfox Posted 9 January 2005 Posted 9 January 2005 Levein's tactics are so defensive. 53261[/snapback] Sack him... 53274[/snapback] I agree Levein quite obviously does not know what he's doing ffs.
Mark Posted 9 January 2005 Posted 9 January 2005 Levein's tactics are so defensive. 53261[/snapback] Sack him... 53274[/snapback] I agree Levein quite obviously does not know what he's doing ffs. 53280[/snapback] Can't express my opinion? I don't want him sacked i just us to be a bit more adventurous.
Hullfox Posted 9 January 2005 Posted 9 January 2005 Levein's tactics are so defensive. 53261[/snapback] Sack him... 53274[/snapback] I agree Levein quite obviously does not know what he's doing ffs. 53280[/snapback] Can't express my opinion? I don't want him sacked i just us to be a bit more adventurous. 53283[/snapback] Of course you can express your opinion, even when you're wrong! I just think initially, the best way to stop losing games is to defend well. I'd rather not lose playing defensively at the minute as opposed to losing whilst being adventurous. Whether we have the right personnel to play as Levein wants us to is debatable seeing the marking etc yesterday but people (not you) need to give him a chance without criticising his and the club's every move.
Mark Posted 9 January 2005 Posted 9 January 2005 Levein got his team at Hearts playing this way after putting his own squad together over 3 years, that's why i brought it up.
Hullfox Posted 9 January 2005 Posted 9 January 2005 Levein got his team at Hearts playing this way after putting his own squad together over 3 years, that's why i brought it up. 53290[/snapback] Fair point but having taken over a team with our record of results and behaviour towards the end of matches, is it surprising that he altered our method of defending?
Mark Posted 9 January 2005 Posted 9 January 2005 Levein got his team at Hearts playing this way after putting his own squad together over 3 years, that's why i brought it up. 53290[/snapback] Fair point but having taken over a team with our record of results and behaviour towards the end of matches, is it surprising that he altered our method of defending? 53291[/snapback] We have one of the best defensive records in the league. It's the goals for that worries me more. It's just the nervousness that has to be overcome. Getting forward, attacking and scoring goals would be more effective to overcome this, than sitting back under pressure for the majority of the game. I think that anyway.
Guest Posted 9 January 2005 Posted 9 January 2005 To be fair to Levein, we've been defending with every man behind the ball all season.
Babylon Posted 9 January 2005 Posted 9 January 2005 Of course you can express your opinion, even when you're wrong!
Anish Posted 9 January 2005 Posted 9 January 2005 Just because some of us are questioning Levein's tactics and set piece routines it doesn't mean we're not going to support the lads on the pitch. We all want the team to do well, but we can see that bringing back all 11 players at set pieces isn't the solution to our defensive problems. In fact, it invites the opposition further forward.
davieG Posted 9 January 2005 Posted 9 January 2005 I guess it all depends how things develop, for instance you could argue that if we left one man, say connolly up the pitch we would probably hoof it to him and lose it anyway. Where as, and CL has said it often enough that he wants us to attack with great force and in numbers that if everyone is back we could actually have the whole team taking the ball out enmass, if you know what I mean. The trouble is this current lot are so used to hoofing they have no confidence in each other and their own ability to bring the ball out of defence, neither do we have enough pacy players. In the same way that we have 3 centre backs who seem hell bent on hoofing it even though the midfield are calling for it. It's all about changing mindsets as well as team members.
Jonbluefox9 Posted 9 January 2005 Posted 9 January 2005 As one Liverpool said after watching his team concede numerous goals from zonal marking at the beginning of the season, 'I've never known a zone to score a goal but I've known a man to so mark the man and not the zone.' What annoys me most is the fact we bring everyone back for corners and there's still three of their men loitering outside the area who have a free run into the area. The first goal we conceded against Reading showed this up as we were all in the area but no-one had picked up the players outside the box. the way we defend corners reminds me of how you can mark in basketball wher you all stay in the area and force your opposition to shoot from long range. I don't really like it but I'm fully behind Levein as I know numerous things happen down at the training ground which very few of us have been to see. I've only been to see one training session since he took over and it was only a week after he'd took over and already you could tell new things were being done and they'll take time to work.
shen Posted 9 January 2005 Posted 9 January 2005 we dont zonal mark (academy teams) we have ppl in zonal position eg on the six yard box in the middle of the goal to clear n e thing that goes there but we have 4 main markers normally but yesterday wen we played reading they were gd at set peices and one of them they had 2 dummy runners and then one was the one who the ball got aimed at and sometimes we had one of our poorer headers/markers with him so zonal marking is gd and bad 53275[/snapback] Interesting, but very hard to read/understand... tip: use punctuation
Cobbo Posted 9 January 2005 Posted 9 January 2005 we dont zonal mark (academy teams) we have ppl in zonal position eg on the six yard box in the middle of the goal to clear n e thing that goes there but we have 4 main markers normally but yesterday wen we played reading they were gd at set peices and one of them they had 2 dummy runners and then one was the one who the ball got aimed at and sometimes we had one of our poorer headers/markers with him so zonal marking is gd and bad 53275[/snapback] Interesting, but very hard to read/understand... tip: use punctuation 53333[/snapback] He's a footballer Punctuation? What's that? Just messing with you Chambo chap
Hullfox Posted 9 January 2005 Posted 9 January 2005 It's all about changing mindsets as well as team members. 53319[/snapback] There in lies the problem methinks. We all witness on here how hard it is to change someone's mindset.
Hullfox Posted 9 January 2005 Posted 9 January 2005 Just because some of us are questioning Levein's tactics and set piece routines it doesn't mean we're not going to support the lads on the pitch.We all want the team to do well, but we can see that bringing back all 11 players at set pieces isn't the solution to our defensive problems. In fact, it invites the opposition further forward. 53315[/snapback] But there's being open minded and not. By saying that "we can see.......isn't the solution" surely you are saying consciously or subconsciously that he's wrong and I don't see how that cannot have an effect upon your support at the games.
Ric Flair Posted 10 January 2005 Posted 10 January 2005 Apparently Levein did this at Hearts, especially the 11 men in the box at corners. I know this initially sounds like a problem as there aren't any players upfront when we clear from a corner, but even having Connolly stuck up front isn't going to do alot. The chances of the clearance reaching Connolly are remote, so therefore the clearance will only be pumped back in to the box anyway. The only critisicm I have of this is that when we do clear from a corner and all break forward there's nobody ahead of the breaking pack for the ball to be played up to and that's where you can make a quick counter attack and possibly score. I think at the minute Levein is finding it increasingly hard to make progress with this team as they don't seem to be capable of responding to change. Now whether that makes Levein a bad manager for not being able to get the best out of this shower of shite or whether he's doing the best he can i'm not sure. I rate Levein, he talks a good game and I like his ideas I just hope he gets it right as it's painful at the minute. Not scoring that much at the minute and conceding sloppy goals i.e Dion fecking Dublin against Blackpool, Taylor against Rovrum, etc. I'm clueless as to what needs to be done, the one thing I do know is it's time to make an example out of Dublin, Makin, Gemmill, Dabizas and boot the ****ers out of here.
chambo_9 Posted 10 January 2005 Posted 10 January 2005 we dont zonal mark (academy teams) we have ppl in zonal position eg on the six yard box in the middle of the goal to clear n e thing that goes there but we have 4 main markers normally but yesterday wen we played reading they were gd at set peices and one of them they had 2 dummy runners and then one was the one who the ball got aimed at and sometimes we had one of our poorer headers/markers with him so zonal marking is gd and bad 53275[/snapback] Interesting, but very hard to read/understand... tip: use punctuation 53333[/snapback] He's a footballer Punctuation? What's that? Just messing with you Chambo chap 53346[/snapback] Are leave it out! am only here to play the football
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