Prison System is wrong

[Lineker's Left Foot]

I totally feel that the prison system is a joke and that prisons should be made harsher to ensure that people are afraid of the consequences of committing crime.

I used to work in a prison and they aren't intimidating places for prisoners at all. Psychologists all agree on the concept that if an act is committed and you are rewarded for it, then you're more likely to commit the act in comparison to if you were punished. So if prisons were to become rough and intimidating places - possibly more barbaric - then it may stand to reason that less crime would be committed due to 'fear'.

It is true that homeless people commit crimes just to go to prison so that they have a roof over their heads and three meals a day. This is ridiculous and completely dumbfounds the criminal justice system. The problem now is that the only party that is willing to bring harsh punishment into the prisons is the BNP and they are gaining more and more votes.

For homeless people etc. more should be done to help them, not using prison as an option so they can receive warmth, a roof over their head and meals a day.

The prison system isn't working and people who say harsh punishment doesn't work. Well where's the evidence.

Right got that out of my system, let's hope City win today at Colchester.

[Hullfox]

Bring back;

Capital Punishment

Chain Gangs

Public Humiliation

[Lemon Harpic]

The prison system isn't working and people who say harsh punishment doesn't work. Well where's the evidence.

Where?

I was thinking about this issue when I was sitting in a police cell on Friday having been arrested for attempted burglary (seriously).

Ultimately, treating people like scum only makes them behave like scum (psychologists agree). The emphasis should be on rehabilitation.

There are a number of reasons why harsh punishment never works out as an effective deterrent. A lot of people who commit crimes are not in a rational state of mind to weigh up the consequences of their actions, and there are always the criminals who believe that they will never be caught.

I think it's right that prisoners should be given a decent standard of living. They still have to face bullying, rape and abuse, so prison is hardly The Hilton.

[Leicfox]

On that note....wheres leroy, im due a dry bumming.

[Lineker's Left Foot]

Where?

I was thinking about this issue when I was sitting in a police cell on Friday having been arrested for attempted burglary (seriously).

Ultimately, treating people like scum only makes them behave like scum (psychologists agree). The emphasis should be on rehabilitation.

There are a number of reasons why harsh punishment never works out as an effective deterrent. A lot of people who commit crimes are not in a rational state of mind to weigh up the consequences of their actions, and there are always the criminals who believe that they will never be caught.

I think it's right that prisoners should be given a decent standard of living. They still have to face bullying, rape and abuse, so prison is hardly The Hilton.

WTF, think you would change your mind if something happens to you !!! The main reason of the argument, and yes I account for what you say to some extent in the last sentence, but prison needs to be used as a deterrent and not rehab. How many offenders re-offend after rehab ? Quite a lot.

Offenders may not be in a rational state when they commit a crime e.g. drugs/alcohol, but that works in favour of their defence. It SHOULD be part of the prosecution as it was their decision to be intoxicated !!!

I'll put it to you this way. With your argument on rehab. the act of a criminal offence needs to have already occurred (i.e. you can't rehab. somebody who hasn't committed the act), but with a harsh prison system, it is used in a place as a deterrent so the criminal act doesn't occur.

Afraid you're in the minority mate and you'd soon change your tune if your kid got abused by a paedo for example. Are you going to wish him rehab? Are you **** - same if your house gets burgled. Your current idea on a prison system ain't really working mate is it?

[Lemon Harpic]

How many offenders re-offend after rehab ? Quite a lot.

Recidivism rate for the USA, where the focus is on punishment and deterrence: 60%

Recidivism rate for the UK, where the focus is on rehabilitation and education of prisoners: 50%.

Sorry LLF, but the statistics don't back you up on this.

Offenders may not be in a rational state when they commit a crime e.g. drugs/alcohol, but that works in favour of their defence.

Not only this, but many people are driven to crime by the desperation of their situation. They feel under such pressure to commit the criminal act that the consequences of being caught don't factor in. A junkie looking to pay for his next fix is only going to think about the car stereo he's about to steal, no matter how unpleasant prison may be. The pressure to conform on kids in young inner-city gangs can also be huge enough to outweigh the possibility of harsh punishment. Add to that the sociopaths and the arrogant criminals who believe that they won't be caught and it's apparent that the deterrent element of harsh punishment is not all that effective.

you'd soon change your tune if your kid got abused by a paedo for example.

When I was last in Birmingham, I was mugged by a crackhead who punched me in the face, bursting open my nose, when I couldn't give him a quid.

On the train home, I was seething. The best way of dealing with him, I thought, was to just shoot him through the head. No trial, no imprisonment, just take him somewhere, kill him and have done with it. What good, after all, is a fυcking crackhead to society? Why waste a penny of taxpayer's money on this worthless piece of shit whose existance only brings misery to the people he mugs?

Which is precisely why we shouldn't listen to the victims.

Victims are not rational. It's understandable that they want to overreact but it would be madness to let society get carried away by their emotions.

[Rincewind]

A scenario for you. Two teenage friends Dave and Luke grow up tin the same area. Its a rough area, job prospects are low. One night they decide to break in a local shop. They are caught and Dave is sentenced to 5 years in one of the toughest prisons where there are strict rules in place. Food is basic and the prisoners are given mailbags to sew during the day. Luke on the other hand is sent to an open prison where he has access to an extensive library given 3 meals a day and is given an option of taking up an apprentiship and learn a trade.

Question. Which of these young men is likely to reoffend and which one is more likely to go straight?

[Daggers]

A scenario for you. Two teenage friends Dave and Luke grow up tin the same area. Its a rough area, job prospects are low. One night they decide to break in a local shop. They are caught and Dave is sentenced to 5 years in one of the toughest prisons where there are strict rules in place. Food is basic and the prisoners are given mailbags to sew during the day. Luke on the other hand is sent to an open prison where he has access to an extensive library given 3 meals a day and is given an option of taking up an apprentiship and learn a trade.

Question. Which of these young men is likely to reoffend and which one is more likely to go straight?

Is this one of these stories where one of the men 'draws' from his experience...and draws a horse to gallop away on? I was never any good at those, sorry.

[Steven]

A scenario for you. Two teenage friends Dave and Luke grow up tin the same area. Its a rough area, job prospects are low. One night they decide to break in a local shop. They are caught and Dave is sentenced to 5 years in one of the toughest prisons where there are strict rules in place. Food is basic and the prisoners are given mailbags to sew during the day. Luke on the other hand is sent to an open prison where he has access to an extensive library given 3 meals a day and is given an option of taking up an apprentiship and learn a trade.

Question. Which of these young men is likely to reoffend and which one is more likely to go straight?

Dave will reoffend and Luke will lead an exemplary life.

[Daggers]

Dave will reoffend and Luke will lead an exemplary life.

Hey! I take offense at that.

[lcfcalan]

Hey! I take offense at that.

I see Steven was correct. Dave has already admitted taking a fence.

(just getting me coat now )

[Dr The Singh]

Like the moajority I believe everyone should be givn another chance and 'rehab' is an good option, but for reoffenders 'rehab' is a great buzz word, in the real world where crime does pay for some and is easier then earning a living, a greater deterrant should be given.

[Lineker's Left Foot]

Like the moajority I believe everyone should be givn another chance and 'rehab' is an good option, but for reoffenders 'rehab' is a great buzz word, in the real world where crime does pay for some and is easier then earning a living, a greater deterrant should be given.

Yeah you've possibly hit the nail on the head there. I just feel that more should be done for victims !!!

[davieG]

The problem as I see it, and this applies to practically everything in life is, that no two people are the same, at one extreme some 'criminals' could be classed as victims themselves, whilst at the other extreme you have criminals that are patently sticking two fingers up to society.

What we need is a wider range of sentences, ranging from rehabilitation and quality training to out and out punishment.

We spend millions of pounds getting psychiatric reports on why someone committed an offence in order to determine the level of gulit, well these reports should be used to determine/recommend, if found guilty the most appropriate type of sentence. Good or bad behaviour could be rewarded/punished with a different type of sentence.

There also needs to be a specific statement from the court that certain offences removes the access to certain civil rights depending on the type of crime/guilt committed.

I'm sure it will occasionally go wrong, as does finding guilt or not in the first place, but as a developed society we need to be smarter.

[Steven]

The problem as I see it, and this applies to practically everything in life is, that no two people are the same, at one extreme some 'criminals' could be classed as victims themselves, whilst at the other extreme you have criminals that are patently sticking two fingers up to society.

What we need is a wider range of sentences, ranging from rehabilitation and quality training to out and out punishment.

We spend millions of pounds getting psychiatric reports on why someone committed an offence in order to determine the level of gulit, well these reports should be used to determine/recommend, if found guilty the most appropriate type of sentence. Good or bad behaviour could be rewarded/punished with a different type of sentence.

There also needs to be a specific statement from the court that certain offences removes the access to certain civil rights depending on the type of crime/guilt committed.

I'm sure it will occasionally go wrong, as does finding guilt or not in the first place, but as a developed society we need to be smarter.

Wise words from the sage of Foxestalk.

[James.]

Wise words from the sage of Foxestalk.

wise but in an already over complicated judicial system possibly a little idealistic as well?

[Rincewind]

There is already something like this in place. There are psychiatric reports and recommendations read out to the court and it is up to the jury to become experts on psychiatry in a short time. It is up to the judge to act on the findings and give a sentence according to a set of guidelines. Joe Public does not know what these are normally (sometimes the judge too) so often sentences appear too light or severe

There are the habitual criminals and to them it is a job. They know the risks and are prepared to take them. But as the saying goes its no good shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. We need prevention not cure. Ex-cons may re-offend but they don't do it so they can be put back inside, they do it because many know of nothing else. If they have a family and are unable/unwilling to get work and an opportunity arises to make easy money they will take it.

There may be a time in the distant future where criminals are removed from society but until then it is just sci-fi and I prefer the civilised method of dealing with criminals.

[Lineker's Left Foot]

There is already something like this in place. There are psychiatric reports and recommendations read out to the court and it is up to the jury to become experts on psychiatry in a short time. It is up to the judge to act on the findings and give a sentence according to a set of guidelines. Joe Public does not know what these are normally (sometimes the judge too) so often sentences appear too light or severe

There are the habitual criminals and to them it is a job. They know the risks and are prepared to take them. But as the saying goes its no good shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. We need prevention not cure. Ex-cons may re-offend but they don't do it so they can be put back inside, they do it because many know of nothing else. If they have a family and are unable/unwilling to get work and an opportunity arises to make easy money they will take it.

There may be a time in the distant future where criminals are removed from society but until then it is just sci-fi and I prefer the civilised method of dealing with criminals.

So what if something personally happens to you?? What are your views on the victims of crime ?? Many would love to see the perpetrator who hurt them in a particular way come to some rough justice. I for one most definitely would. As I say heaven forbid if I caught a burglar in my house - put it like this, one of us would end up in prison !!

[davieG]

wise but in an already over complicated judicial system possibly a little idealistic as well?

There is already something like this in place. There are psychiatric reports and recommendations read out to the court and it is up to the jury to become experts on psychiatry in a short time. It is up to the judge to act on the findings and give a sentence according to a set of guidelines. Joe Public does not know what these are normally (sometimes the judge too) so often sentences appear too light or severe

There are the habitual criminals and to them it is a job. They know the risks and are prepared to take them. But as the saying goes its no good shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. We need prevention not cure. Ex-cons may re-offend but they don't do it so they can be put back inside, they do it because many know of nothing else. If they have a family and are unable/unwilling to get work and an opportunity arises to make easy money they will take it.

There may be a time in the distant future where criminals are removed from society but until then it is just sci-fi and I prefer the civilised method of dealing with criminals.

Not idealistic at all as Ken say's most of it's already in place. What is missing is a suitable range of alternative sentences/facilities. All that's lacking is the will and the money, money that would be returned if the system was complete and managed properly.

If we, Great Britain that is spent less time and money trying to prove to the world that we're still an Empire and that we can solve all the world's problems and concentrated on putting our own house in order then timeand money wouldn't be a problem anyway. But then I guess you would say that was idealistic, well with the self seeking politicians we seem to breed today it probably is.

[Rincewind]

Something did happen to me. Not injury to myself or a great loss but the feeling of anger towards the person was still there initially. After a few days I took a different viewpoint. The person who nicked my phones was fairly young. I should imagine if he doesn't reform he will spend the next 30 or 40 years in and out of prison always on the lookout for the law and basically having poor future to look forward to. His victims will still have a future despite the trauma suffered. I try to believe that my quality of life will be better than his. I have aquired new phones, one a better model than before so I will just salute this petty thief with two fingers.

[Lineker's Left Foot]

Something did happen to me. Not injury to myself or a great loss but the feeling of anger towards the person was still there initially. After a few days I took a different viewpoint. The person who nicked my phones was fairly young. I should imagine if he doesn't reform he will spend the next 30 or 40 years in and out of prison always on the lookout for the law and basically having poor future to look forward to. His victims will still have a future despite the trauma suffered. I try to believe that my quality of life will be better than his. I have aquired new phones, one a better model than before so I will just salute this petty thief with two fingers.

Good way of looking at I suppose. Suppose we'll have to agree to disagree cos at the end of the day we're both City fans through and through. I suppose let's bury this argument under the ground !!

[davieG]

TO THOSE OF YOU NOT FAMILIAR WITH JOE ARPAIO, HE IS THE MARICOPA

COUNTY SHERIFF( ARIZONA )AND HE KEEPS GETTING ELECTED OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

These are some of the reasons why:

Sheriff Joe Arpaio created the "tent city jail" to save Arizona from spending tens of million of dollars on another expensive prison complex.

He has jail meals down to 40 cents a serving and charges the inmates for them.

He banned smoking and porno magazines in the jails, and took away their weightlifting equipment and cut off all but "G" movies. He says:"they're in jail to pay a debt to society not to build muscles so they can assault innocent people when they leave."

He started chain gangs to use the inmates to do free work on county and city projects and save taxpayer's money.

Then he started chain gangs for women so he wouldn't get sued for discrimination.

He took away cable TV until he found out there was a federal court order that required cable TV for jails. So he hooked up the cable TV again but only allows the Disney channel and the weather channel.

When asked why the weather channel he replied: "so these morons will know how hot it's gonna be while they are working on my chain gangs."

He cut off coffee because it has zero nutritional value and is

therefore a waste of taxpayer money. When the inmates complained, he told them, "This isn't the Ritz/Carlton. If you don't like it, don't come back."

He also bought the Newt Gingrich lecture series on US history that he pipes into the jails. When asked by a reporter if he had any lecture series by a Democrat, he replied that a democratic lecture series that actually tells the truth for a change would be welcome and that it might even explain why 95% of the inmates were in his jails in the first place.

With temperatures being even hotter than usual in Phoenix (116 degrees just set a new record for June 2nd), the Associated Press reports:About 2,000 inmates living in a barbed- wire-surrounded tent encampment at the Maricopa County Jail have been given permission to strip down to their government-issued pink boxer shorts.

On Wednesday, hundreds of men wearing pink boxer shorts were chatting in the tents, where temperatures reached 128 degrees. "This is hell. It feels like we live in a furnace," said Ernesto Gonzales, an inmate for 2 years with 10 more to go. "It's inhumane."

Joe Arpaio, who makes his prisoners wear pink, and eat bologna

sandwiches, is not one bit sympathetic. "Criminals should be punished for their crimes - not live in luxury until it's time for parole, only to go out and commit more crimes so they can come back in to live on taxpayers money and enjoy things many taxpayers can't afford to have for themselves."

Wednesday he told all the inmates who were complaining of the heat in the tents: "It's between 120 to 130 degrees in Iraq and our soldiers are living in tents too, and they have to walk all day in the sun, wearing full battle gear and get shot at, and they have not committed any crimes, so shut your damned mouths!"

[Dr The Singh]

TO THOSE OF YOU NOT FAMILIAR WITH JOE ARPAIO, HE IS THE MARICOPA

COUNTY SHERIFF( ARIZONA )AND HE KEEPS GETTING ELECTED OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

These are some of the reasons why:

Sheriff Joe Arpaio created the "tent city jail" to save Arizona from spending tens of million of dollars on another expensive prison complex.

He has jail meals down to 40 cents a serving and charges the inmates for them.

He banned smoking and porno magazines in the jails, and took away their weightlifting equipment and cut off all but "G" movies. He says:"they're in jail to pay a debt to society not to build muscles so they can assault innocent people when they leave."

He started chain gangs to use the inmates to do free work on county and city projects and save taxpayer's money.

Then he started chain gangs for women so he wouldn't get sued for discrimination.

He took away cable TV until he found out there was a federal court order that required cable TV for jails. So he hooked up the cable TV again but only allows the Disney channel and the weather channel.

When asked why the weather channel he replied: "so these morons will know how hot it's gonna be while they are working on my chain gangs."

He cut off coffee because it has zero nutritional value and is

therefore a waste of taxpayer money. When the inmates complained, he told them, "This isn't the Ritz/Carlton. If you don't like it, don't come back."

He also bought the Newt Gingrich lecture series on US history that he pipes into the jails. When asked by a reporter if he had any lecture series by a Democrat, he replied that a democratic lecture series that actually tells the truth for a change would be welcome and that it might even explain why 95% of the inmates were in his jails in the first place.

With temperatures being even hotter than usual in Phoenix (116 degrees just set a new record for June 2nd), the Associated Press reports:About 2,000 inmates living in a barbed- wire-surrounded tent encampment at the Maricopa County Jail have been given permission to strip down to their government-issued pink boxer shorts.

On Wednesday, hundreds of men wearing pink boxer shorts were chatting in the tents, where temperatures reached 128 degrees. "This is hell. It feels like we live in a furnace," said Ernesto Gonzales, an inmate for 2 years with 10 more to go. "It's inhumane."

Joe Arpaio, who makes his prisoners wear pink, and eat bologna

sandwiches, is not one bit sympathetic. "Criminals should be punished for their crimes - not live in luxury until it's time for parole, only to go out and commit more crimes so they can come back in to live on taxpayers money and enjoy things many taxpayers can't afford to have for themselves."

Wednesday he told all the inmates who were complaining of the heat in the tents: "It's between 120 to 130 degrees in Iraq and our soldiers are living in tents too, and they have to walk all day in the sun, wearing full battle gear and get shot at, and they have not committed any crimes, so shut your damned mouths!"

I like his style!!! Although abit harsh he has shown some common sense IMO!!

[Steven]

TO THOSE OF YOU NOT FAMILIAR WITH JOE ARPAIO, HE IS THE MARICOPA

COUNTY SHERIFF( ARIZONA )AND HE KEEPS GETTING ELECTED OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

These are some of the reasons why:

Sheriff Joe Arpaio created the "tent city jail" to save Arizona from spending tens of million of dollars on another expensive prison complex.

He has jail meals down to 40 cents a serving and charges the inmates for them.

He banned smoking and porno magazines in the jails, and took away their weightlifting equipment and cut off all but "G" movies. He says:"they're in jail to pay a debt to society not to build muscles so they can assault innocent people when they leave."

He started chain gangs to use the inmates to do free work on county and city projects and save taxpayer's money.

Then he started chain gangs for women so he wouldn't get sued for discrimination.

He took away cable TV until he found out there was a federal court order that required cable TV for jails. So he hooked up the cable TV again but only allows the Disney channel and the weather channel.

When asked why the weather channel he replied: "so these morons will know how hot it's gonna be while they are working on my chain gangs."

He cut off coffee because it has zero nutritional value and is

therefore a waste of taxpayer money. When the inmates complained, he told them, "This isn't the Ritz/Carlton. If you don't like it, don't come back."

He also bought the Newt Gingrich lecture series on US history that he pipes into the jails. When asked by a reporter if he had any lecture series by a Democrat, he replied that a democratic lecture series that actually tells the truth for a change would be welcome and that it might even explain why 95% of the inmates were in his jails in the first place.

With temperatures being even hotter than usual in Phoenix (116 degrees just set a new record for June 2nd), the Associated Press reports:About 2,000 inmates living in a barbed- wire-surrounded tent encampment at the Maricopa County Jail have been given permission to strip down to their government-issued pink boxer shorts.

On Wednesday, hundreds of men wearing pink boxer shorts were chatting in the tents, where temperatures reached 128 degrees. "This is hell. It feels like we live in a furnace," said Ernesto Gonzales, an inmate for 2 years with 10 more to go. "It's inhumane."

Joe Arpaio, who makes his prisoners wear pink, and eat bologna

sandwiches, is not one bit sympathetic. "Criminals should be punished for their crimes - not live in luxury until it's time for parole, only to go out and commit more crimes so they can come back in to live on taxpayers money and enjoy things many taxpayers can't afford to have for themselves."

Wednesday he told all the inmates who were complaining of the heat in the tents: "It's between 120 to 130 degrees in Iraq and our soldiers are living in tents too, and they have to walk all day in the sun, wearing full battle gear and get shot at, and they have not committed any crimes, so shut your damned mouths!"

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff17348.htm

The key fact here is this

Rebuttal Consumer Comment

Submitted: 11/20/2006 2:50:34 PM Modified: 11/20/2006 7:10:30 PM

For John.

OK John,

If Sheriff Joe is doing such a wiz-bang job, then how come the crime rate in Maricopa County is WORSE than the national average in EVERY SINGLE CATEGORY? Care to explain that one?

If Joe's detention centers are so bad, why does the crime rate continue to rise, when there is a nationwide decline in crime overall?

I'll be glad to move back to Florida in a few years. I'll take Jeb over Joe any day of the week, and twice on Sunday!

Patrick - Mesa, Arizona

U.S.A.