Dodds

[MBK]

JenAllen - author of 'how to make as much sense as JoeB using less words'.

[Ric Flair]

JenAllen - author of 'how to make as much sense as JoeB using less words'.

Stunning.

[Thracian]

Ok then Jon.

You and Thracian are right. Several consecutive Leicester managers and coaching teams are wrong.

It's a wonder you're not being paid a fortune within the beautiful game.

I wouldn't go down that tack.

Our last three managers have proved themselves wrong about an embarrassing number of things far too often and our position in the League table has been a constant testimony to that, as have been the constant references on sites like these, and from innumerable people.

If you take just one example and consider how many signings Kelly has made and how many of those have shown themselves to be good footballers, I think you'll get the picture.

[Manwell Pablo]

I wouldn't go down that tack.

Our last three managers have proved themselves wrong about an embarrassing number of things far too often and our position in the League table has been a constant testimony to that, as have been the constant references on sites like these, and from innumerable people.

If you take just one example and consider how many signings Kelly has made and how many of those have shown themselves to be good footballers, I think you'll get the picture.

But Ultimately people will pay four figures a week to manage football teams, and Kelly aside they've e had good records in certain divisions. Admittedly all three have their faults but three professional football managers backed by youth team staff and coaches who see Dodds every week in training, as well as a host of Rochdale fans (who have seen something you haven't Louis Dodds playing at a first team professional level) vs one Thracian who has seen him at a poor level, I know which one I'm inclined to believe even if I didn't have my own opinion of him. The fact he hadn't at least got a chance did confuse me but it's starting to become a little clearer.

In fact, I don't know why this even being debated, The evidence is there they've Dodds has been passed up by three managers who have given Leicester City first team appearances to Wright, Odiahmbo, Chambers, Weslowski, Stearman, Porter, Logan as well as Sheehan and he's had chances with the first team and down at Mansfield. At the time of writing Dodds and Sheehan have both looked average at League Two, which is not Championship level football. Josh Low made the League two team of the season yet he's Cleary not good enough to play in this division.

Louis Dodds is going to be leaving this club, he's on loan at He's deal is up in three months and he has one chance to prove that he can cut it at this level by scoring a bucket full in the remaining months of the season. How long has he had on the pitch, upwards of 250 minutes? and he scored one goal? As well this Rochdale fans have reservations about his game, it's all very good you saying you know Louis Dodds game and he often does little else but score, so that’s why he's not getting the good write ups, but when he's not scoring regularly like he isn't now what exactly makes him a good footballer?

It just amazes me that the amount of excuses that are rolled out for him, "I know he's good enough, I don't need to see him score goals, I know he can cut it, I know he can score vast amount of goals" Wheres the evidence of this a first team level, even at the poor first team level he's playing at now, why isn't this said about Matty Fryatt who has proven this at League one and to a extent Championship level as well as outscoring Louis Dodds at youth Level? "He's not fit, he's only had cameo apperances" He's not fit? whos fault is that? if a senior player on loan here isn't fit you come down on them like a ton of bricks! Why is Dodds allowed to not be fit? Oh and the Classic "The team have been winning since he arrived there" Erm yes that might also have something to do with the new manager they appointed a couple of months ago and the goals provided by the other signings he's bought in since arriving there. And If I remember rightly did we not lose for about 6 games when Geoff Horsfield first came here, it means nothing!

Ultimatley when you strip you rubbish stats away which are true when you use them and false when anyone else does your left with "I know this, I know that" and I'm sorry Thracian, you don't know as you think you do.

[Thracian]

But Ultimately people will pay four figures a week to manage football teams, and Kelly aside they've e had good records in certain divisions. Admittedly all three have their faults but three professional football managers backed by youth team staff and coaches who see Dodds every week in training, as well as a host of Rochdale fans (who have seen something you haven't Louis Dodds playing at a first team professional level) vs one Thracian who has seen him at a poor level, I know which one I'm inclined to believe even if I didn't have my own opinion of him. The fact he hadn't at least got a chance did confuse me but it's starting to become a little clearer.

In fact, I don't know why this even being debated, The evidence is there they've Dodds has been passed up by three managers who have given Leicester City first team appearances to Wright, Odiahmbo, Chambers, Weslowski, Stearman, Porter, Logan as well as Sheehan and he's had chances with the first team and down at Mansfield. At the time of writing Dodds and Sheehan have both looked average at League Two, which is not Championship level football. Josh Low made the League two team of the season yet he's Cleary not good enough to play in this division.

Louis Dodds is going to be leaving this club, he's on loan at He's deal is up in three months and he has one chance to prove that he can cut it at this level by scoring a bucket full in the remaining months of the season. How long has he had on the pitch, upwards of 250 minutes? and he scored one goal? As well this Rochdale fans have reservations about his game, it's all very good you saying you know Louis Dodds game and he often does little else but score, so that’s why he's not getting the good write ups, but when he's not scoring regularly like he isn't now what exactly makes him a good footballer?

It just amazes me that the amount of excuses that are rolled out for him, "I know he's good enough, I don't need to see him score goals, I know he can cut it, I know he can score vast amount of goals" Wheres the evidence of this a first team level, even at the poor first team level he's playing at now, why isn't this said about Matty Fryatt who has proven this at League one and to a extent Championship level as well as outscoring Louis Dodds at youth Level? "He's not fit, he's only had cameo apperances" He's not fit? whos fault is that? if a senior player on loan here isn't fit you come down on them like a ton of bricks! Why is Dodds allowed to not be fit? Oh and the Classic "The team have been winning since he arrived there" Erm yes that might also have something to do with the new manager they appointed a couple of months ago and the goals provided by the other signings he's bought in since arriving there. And If I remember rightly did we not lose for about 6 games when Geoff Horsfield first came here, it means nothing!

Ultimatley when you strip you rubbish stats away which are true when you use them and false when anyone else does your left with "I know this, I know that" and I'm sorry Thracian, you don't know as you think you do.

There is the world of difference between a player being generally fit and being match fit as is demonstrated in our team week on week.

And which three managers have rejected Dodds?

He's only really been in contention this season.

Sheehan looked a perfectly decent player in first team and reserve team matches for much of the time in the first quarter of last season and would seem to have barely been clear of injuries since.

Dodds has not been in the Rochdale side long enough for fans to judge him properly.

Players take time to acclimatise - not just to a new pace of football but to new team-mates. If you're not prepared to acknowledge that it's your choice. If Rochdale's fans want to ignore that it's their choice. He's already made a reasonable contribution and that's a fact.

And if you have a little patience he'll contribute some more.

PS: I didn't ever take anything away from the Rochdale manager you rightly single out for praise. Didn't he sign and pick Dodds?.

And my point about the managerial decision stands four square. We're not talking about what people might have done at a different level - lots of us can point to past glories and records we're proud of at a lower level - we're talking about decisions made at Championshp level and some of those made at Leicester have been lamentable.

[Babylon]

Any idea what has happened to Sheehan? How can a player be cast aside like that?

He's not as good as people made out.... that's why he got cast aside.

[Thracian]

He's not as good as people made out.... that's why he got cast aside.

I'm not sure he's ever been cast aside as such - though I did think it once. I think JBF's right that he's been plagued by niggling injuries. Certainly a groin strain took him out for weeks last season and I said at the time that they never healed easily. Professional football is not just about skills and suitability- it is also about durability. Sheehan, Wesolowski, Fryatt will know all about that and we've had others in previous seasons.

[Manwell Pablo]

There is the world of difference between a player being generally fit and being match fit as is demonstrated in our team week on week.

And which three managers have rejected Dodds?

He's only really been in contention this season.

Sheehan looked a perfectly decent player in first team and reserve team matches for much of the time in the first quarter of last season and would seem to have barely been clear of injuries since.Dodds has not been in the Rochdale side long enough for fans to judge him properly.

Players take time to acclimatise - not just to a new pace of football but to new team-mates. If you're not prepared to acknowledge that it's your choice. If Rochdale's fans want to ignore that it's their choice. He's already made a reasonable contribution and that's a fact.

And if you have a little patience he'll contribute some more.

PS: I didn't ever take anything away from the Rochdale manager you rightly single out for praise. Didn't he sign and pick Dodds?.

And my point about the managerial decision stands four square. We're not talking about what people might have done at a different level - lots of us can point to past glories and records we're proud of at a lower level - we're talking about decisions made at Championshp level and some of those made at Leicester have been lamentable.

He was fine at Mansfield and didn't excell.

There you go again contridicting yourself, Dodds has been their no longer than Jarret here and much less time than Newton and you have already hung both out to dry!!!!!

[Thracian]

He was fine at Mansfield and didn't excell.

There you go again contridicting yourself, Dodds has been their no longer than Jarret here and much less time than Newton and you have already hung both out to dry!!!!!

I've never questioned Jarrett's fitness. Just his lack of effect and genuine creativity.

Newton too looked a great early passer of the ball when I first saw him, but as so often with old timers, it's a blast from the past. He just can't sustain it.

If he does better in the games to come I'll give him credit for it cos, my life, do we need a right winger.

But, like Horsfield, he generally looks way past his best and I imagine he'll just occasionally give little reminders that he could once play.

[Manwell Pablo]

I've never questioned Jarrett's fitness. Just his lack of effect and genuine creativity.

Newton too looked a great early passer of the ball when I first saw him, but as so often with old timers, it's a blast from the past. He just can't sustain it.

If he does better in the games to come I'll give him credit for it cos, my life, do we need a right winger.

But, like Horsfield, he generally looks way past his best and I imagine he'll just occasionally give little reminders that he could once play.

Jarrets fitness cleary has a bearing on how he plays, he has hardly kicked a ball this season he will be no more fit than the great Louis Dodds and will have to adjust to the pace his team mates, and all the other bullshit excuses you rolled out for golden boy apply to him as well.

And Sean Newton as I say ssame situation written off after 3 games, I didn't ask you to repeat your opinions on the players I simply pointed out that you can talk about Rochdale fans having not seen much of the great one when you formed your own opinions about players we've had on loan based on less time!

Back to a earlier point you made about Keith Hill signing Dodds, yes he was a good signing for a League Two club, can't fault him on that, he has the potential to be a distant striker down at that level

[Thracian]

Jarrets fitness cleary has a bearing on how he plays, he has hardly kicked a ball this season he will be no more fit than the great Louis Dodds and will have to adjust to the pace his team mates, and all the other bullshit excuses you rolled out for golden boy apply to him as well.

And Sean Newton as I say ssame situation written off after 3 games, I didn't ask you to repeat your opinions on the players I simply pointed out that you can talk about Rochdale fans having not seen much of the great one when you formed your own opinions about players we've had on loan based on less time!

Back to a earlier point you made about Keith Hill signing Dodds, yes he was a good signing for a League Two club, can't fault him on that, he has the potential to be a distant striker down at that level

Jarrett's played eight games as I recall - a lot more than Dodds and if he'd made one and scored one I'd be a lot happier but he hasn't. As for Newton I haven't formed a final opinion at all - but it's not looking good so far and if he's just going to be average I can't see the point in having him at his age.

[Geo V]

I'm genuinely pleased to hear that and would emphasise that my "clamouring" on behalf of Dodds is more a reflection on the fact that I believe he is a better striker than Horsfield anyway, a more natural striker than Hammond and should be involved regularly from the bench at the very least in view of our lack of an effective second striker.

If, as might be argued with Stearman this season, he is found wanting and ineffective, I will be quite happy to join others in saying so.

But he needs to be judged on strike-rate/assist rate not on artistic appearance. I likened him to a fledgling Allen Clarke (in style not ability) because he has a languid look about him rather than the all-action style of Hume which is always so much appreciated but not necessarily more effective.

Another thing I like is players who seem to win. Dodds was always part of a successful Academy team, we won with him in pre-season friendlies, Northwich's result improved when he was there and Rochdale's have been excellent too.

My point here is that sometimes players have more effect than is always apparent. I don't know if that' the case with Dodds but would sure like him to be given proper opportunity to provide the answer.

That is all, nothing more. I don't think he's the greatest striker on earth. I just think he shows signs of being a natural finisher and see no reason why that ability would desert him at Championship level because he doesn't depend on speed or strength or dribbling skills. It's his eye for the goal that is his strength - and his accuracy when he sees a chance.

You were calling for Dodds even before the Horse was signed fella! Have you forgotten that you wanted him in when Fryatt and Hume were misfiring??

Anyway its still very early days for Dodds. Ideally he would go to a lower league club and hit it off straight away scoring hat-tricks galore but that wont happen. Hopefully once he gets used to playing in front of crowds (although 3000 of them at that level ) he may get better but at this stage of his career its obvious that he is nowhere near ready to be leading our front line and knee-jerk reactions to get him in months ago would have resulted in failure and maybe have an impact on the lads career?

[davieG]

You were calling for Dodds even before the Horse was signed fella! Have you forgotten that you wanted him in when Fryatt and Hume were misfiring??

Anyway its still very early days for Dodds. Ideally he would go to a lower league club and hit it off straight away scoring hat-tricks galore but that wont happen. Hopefully once he gets used to playing in front of crowds (although 3000 of them at that level ) he may get better but at this stage of his career its obvious that he is nowhere near ready to be leading our front line and knee-jerk reactions to get him in months ago would have resulted in failure and maybe have an impact on the lads career?

Not if it had been 15 minutes off the bench.

[Manwell Pablo]

Jarrett's played eight games as I recall - a lot more than Dodds and if he'd made one and scored one I'd be a lot happier but he hasn't. As for Newton I haven't formed a final opinion at all - but it's not looking good so far and if he's just going to be average I can't see the point in having him at his age.

There you go again insuating that Dodds has a assist at Rochdale when he doesn't it! Don't think I wont spot these things Thracian!!

Anyway, the boy looks average in League Two and thats where he's heading, argue if you will but you know I'm right.

[The People's Hero]

Not if it had been 15 minutes off the bench.

You don't know Davie G.

It can be a pretty hostile atmosphere at the Walkers at times. 20odd thousand people baying for blood is a bit different to being watched by a few hardcore fans/parents at the Academy games.

[Geo V]

Not if it had been 15 minutes off the bench.

Sending players out on loan is the best way to see an improvement in them. It will help them play initially in front of small crowds but they will still get the abuse from the away fans and the love from the home fans if they do well. That Beckford dude is a good example at Leeds. He has featured about ten times for them and is yet to score. The punt him out on loan and all of a sudden he is finding his feat at Scunny and is scoring for fun. Surely that will make him a more confident player when he returns? It will no doubt improve his game and make him better for it. Coming off the bench to perform miracles for us is totally unfair, especially when he doesnt seem to have the ability to do so and the fact that our midfield wont be creating that many chances for him in the first place.

[Manwell Pablo]

I do love this 15 minutes off the bench thing, that happened twice, the third time he got about half an hour and he's started four games.

In any case if he's on the bench that tells you something as well, I could kind of understand him having a hard time getting in the team while La Fondre was there as he's proven at that level, but look at the players who are getting infront of him or replacing him now, Glen Murray, shit, Chris Dagnall ,shit, Danny Reet (another one with a excellent scoreing record at a Championship reserve team) Absloute shit. These are players that score one in 3/4 games in League Two!!

[davieG]

I do love this 15 minutes off the bench thing, that happened twice, the third time he got about half an hour and he's started four games.

In any case if he's on the bench that tells you something as well, I could kind of understand him having a hard time getting in the team while La Fondre was there as he's proven at that level, but look at the players who are getting infront of him or replacing him now, Glen Murray, shit, Chris Dagnall ,shit, Danny Reet (another one with a excellent scoreing record at a Championship reserve team) Absloute shit. These are players that score one in 3/4 games in League Two!!

I meant if Kelly had given him 15 minutes off the bench or is it me missing the point.

TPH, I don't think he would get a hostile reaction even if the teams is was as shite as it has been. In fact there has been very little hostile reaction at all. Besides it's not as if we've had any strikers, apart from Hume even looking bothered never mind scoring, the chances of him being worse in 15 minute cameos is quite long I would think

[davieG]

Sending players out on loan is the best way to see an improvement in them. It will help them play initially in front of small crowds but they will still get the abuse from the away fans and the love from the home fans if they do well. That Beckford dude is a good example at Leeds. He has featured about ten times for them and is yet to score. The punt him out on loan and all of a sudden he is finding his feat at Scunny and is scoring for fun. Surely that will make him a more confident player when he returns? It will no doubt improve his game and make him better for it. Coming off the bench to perform miracles for us is totally unfair, especially when he doesnt seem to have the ability to do so and the fact that our midfield wont be creating that many chances for him in the first place.

I can't say I fully agree with that, sending players out on loan is a relatively recent idea, in the past players where successfully introduced and that's when you didn't have the luxury of 5 substitutes. I'm not saying its not a useful tool but it's definitely not the only one.

I get really pissed off with this 'we can't introduce youngsters because we are in a potential relegation/promotion situation' Of course we are apart from the last 3/4 games that applies to virtually every team for every game of the season and is a piss poor excuse from piss poor managers.

Thing with the Kelly situation is quite simple, the vast majority of the current squad, which in Kelly's own words is small has left him with two choices keep playing under performing, unmotivated players or drip feed in some youngsters.

This season he has steadfastly and almost exclusively chosen the first despite it's continuing failure. There is absolutely no excuse for him therefore in not trying out some of the younger players.

In that scenario the loan situation is a red herring, the only way it could have any relevance is if he'd sent them out on loan at the beginning of the season ready for when we went tits up, he didn't because he's a piss poor manager with no vision or ability to plan in contingencies.

[Fez of Mahrez]

I'd have given him a hostile reaction if he'd been as shit as O'Grady.

[The People's Hero]

I'd have given him a hostile reaction if he'd been as shit as O'Grady.

I would anyway. I'm just that kind of man. If he can't take a few boos, he won't make a footballer.

[davieG]

I'd have given him a hostile reaction if he'd been as shit as O'Grady.

Only proves my point as COG didn't really get a hostile reaction, as I also said there is very little if any hostile reaction going on and when you consider how shit we've been and for how long it really is unbelievable. I suspect it has a lot to do with the demographics of the crowd as many of the 'old school' no longer go and there are very few 20 to 30 year old fans, traditionally the most vociferous ones there now.

[Fez of Mahrez]

Only proves my point as COG didn't really get a hostile reaction, as I also said there is very little if any hostile reaction going on and when you consider how shit we've been and for how long it really is unbelievable. I suspect it has a lot to do with the demographics of the crowd as many of the 'old school' no longer go and there are very few 20 to 30 year old fans, traditionally the most vociferous ones there now.

Sadly you are right. The number of guffbunnies we've let get away with playing for us without getting a dog's abuse is depressing.

[Geo V]

I can't say I fully agree with that, sending players out on loan is a relatively recent idea, in the past players where successfully introduced and that's when you didn't have the luxury of 5 substitutes. I'm not saying its not a useful tool but it's definitely not the only one.

I get really pissed off with this 'we can't introduce youngsters because we are in a potential relegation/promotion situation' Of course we are apart from the last 3/4 games that applies to virtually every team for every game of the season and is a piss poor excuse from piss poor managers.

Thing with the Kelly situation is quite simple, the vast majority of the current squad, which in Kelly's own words is small has left him with two choices keep playing under performing, unmotivated players or drip feed in some youngsters.

This season he has steadfastly and almost exclusively chosen the first despite it's continuing failure. There is absolutely no excuse for him therefore in not trying out some of the younger players.

In that scenario the loan situation is a red herring, the only way it could have any relevance is if he'd sent them out on loan at the beginning of the season ready for when we went tits up, he didn't because he's a piss poor manager with no vision or ability to plan in contingencies.

Squads are much bigger than they used to be generally. You only have to look at Leeds squad and there strikers to know that Beckford hasnt a hope of getting by Blake, Healy, Moore, Cresswell and Flo amongst others. Thats why loaning a player out is the best way of a players progression although training amongst a first team squad of quality is another way to go, especially if you have a reserve team and some of the kids can play in competitive matches with senior players. Unfortunately thats a luxury we havent got.

Our squad has seen the likes of Tommy Wright and COG breakthrough in recent times but amonut to not much. Some other kids have come up and done well like Stearman, Weso, Levi and Logan but none seem to have the kind of ability to be able to command a place in a top 8 side in this division. I agree that we should try some of the kids if they are upto this level but RK is shi**ing himself and wants instant results so he doesnt get sacked. I`d put money on the fact that RK would have risked a kid or three if he had a 4 year contract and he had nothing to lose.

Maybe our acdemy kids arent ready for first team football?

[The People's Hero]

Only proves my point as COG didn't really get a hostile reaction, as I also said there is very little if any hostile reaction going on and when you consider how shit we've been and for how long it really is unbelievable. I suspect it has a lot to do with the demographics of the crowd as many of the 'old school' no longer go and there are very few 20 to 30 year old fans, traditionally the most vociferous ones there now.

He did from me.

As does Elvis Hammond.

It's our duty as paying customers to kick up a fuss when the product isn't good enough. To do otherwise is to fail yourself and the club.

Kelly Out and he can take his shi tters with him.