Take a running jump?

[Daggers]

Personally, I think that Police Community Support Officers are a waste of time and a huge con on the public. They aren't coppers.

Link

Police chiefs have defended two community support officers (PCSOs) who stood by as a 10-year-old boy drowned in a pond.

Jordon Lyon leapt into the water in Wigan, Greater Manchester, after his eight-year-old stepsister Bethany got into difficulties on 3 May.

Two anglers jumped in and saved Bethany but Jordon became submerged.

The inquest into his death heard the PCSOs did not rescue him as they were not trained to deal with the incident.

Jordon was playing at the edge of the pond, known locally as John Pit, off Wigan Lower Road, in Standish Lower Ground, with his two brothers, stepbrother and stepsister on 3 May.

He was trying to support Bethany as she struggled in the six-feet-deep water before slipping from view.

Anglers managed to pull Bethany out but Jordon was out of sight before they could get to him.

The alarm was raised and the PCSOs arrived on the scene. Police said they could see no sign of Jordon in the water, so they radioed trained officers for help.

Greater Manchester Police said an officer was on the scene within five minutes.

Members of Jordon's family also rushed to the scene to join the search.

He was eventually pulled from the pond but despite attempts to resuscitate him he was later pronounced dead in hospital.

A verdict of accidental death was recorded.

His mother, Tracy Ganderton, and stepfather Anthony, of Bluebell Avenue, Wigan, are demanding to know why the PCSOs did not try to rescue Jordon and why they did not give evidence at the inquest held by deputy West Manchester coroner Alan Walsh.

Mr Ganderton told the inquest: "I don't know why they didn't go in. I can't understand it.

"If I had been walking along a canal and seen a child drowning I would have jumped in.

"You don't have to be trained to jump in after a drowning child."

Mrs Ganderton said on Friday that the PCSOs in question should be named.

"If you're walking down the street and you see a child drowning you automatically go in that water.

"You don't care if you're going to lose your job or not, you don't care do you?

"I want them to be named. I want to know why they didn't go in, I want to know why they weren't at the inquest when I had to turn up there, and go through the pain of it all.

"I want to know why they didn't have to be there as main witnesses.

"They should have to be there. They shouldn't have a job."

In a statement after the hearing, Det Ch Insp Phil Owen, of Wigan CID, who led the investigation into Jordon's death, said: "PCSOs are not trained to deal with major incidents such as this.

"Both ourselves and the fire brigade regularly warn the public of the dangers of going into unknown stretches of water so it would have been inappropriate for PCSOs, who are not trained in water rescue, to enter the pond.

"This was a tragic incident where a young boy lost his life and we would once again want to pass on our heartfelt condolences to Jordon's family."

'Life-saving skills'

Paul Kelly, chairman of the Police Federation in Manchester, said PCSOs do not have the same level of training as police officers to deal with life-saving situations.

He said: "The message is clear and unambiguous - it's the government, they are trying to fool the public.

"They take a person and dress him up as a police officer but they just don't have the same powers.

"Every single police officer I trained with left training school with a life-saving certificate of some sort."

He said the PCSOs might not have been able to swim and in that case they should not have risked their lives.

But he added: "People throw themselves into rivers and ponds to save people every day because it's the right thing to do.

"This is an accident waiting to happen again."

West Lancashire Coroner Jennifer Leeming said: "Neither myself or the Deputy Coroner can comment on individual cases but the statement put out by Greater Manchester Police reflects the evidence that was given in the courtroom."

[Kent Fox]

Personally, I think that Police Community Support Officers are a waste of time and a huge con on the public. They aren't coppers.

Link

PCSO's are coppers.

They are just cheap to run, useless, can't-get-in-to-the-police-proper coppers who aren't worth tax payers money.

Which makes them glorified traffic wardens - or little Hitlers, as they are more commonly known on Thracian's street.

It makes me happy I am not currently paying any tax.

[Alexikokopops]

If you're walking down the street and you see a child drowning you automatically go in that water.

The first thing I learnt when training to be a lifeguard is that your own safety's the most important, and getting in the water is the last resort.

Have some of that distraught parents, my pedanticness knows no bounds.

[Geo V]

That is a tragic incident but IMO, whatever extra help a PCSO can give to the Police in general is surely a good thing although maybe extra training can be given to them to assist in incidents like this.

In general, the whole Police system is a mess and full of red tape, bureaucracy and paperwork and those who want to take advantage of their ineptitude do and I unfortunately know some of the low-lifes who take the pi$$ and know they can get away with it.

BTW, do all Policemen/women have to know how to swim before they are hired or to they get training? I cant see this being a prerequisite for the job surely?

[Fez of Mahrez]

It's one of my biggest fears, feeling pressure to risk my own life attempting to save someone I know nothing about.

[Milky]

That is a tragic incident but IMO, whatever extra help a PCSO can give to the Police in general is surely a good thing although maybe extra training can be given to them to assist in incidents like this.

In general, the whole Police system is a mess and full of red tape, bureaucracy and paperwork and those who want to take advantage of their ineptitude do and I unfortunately know some of the low-lifes who take the pi$$ and know they can get away with it.

BTW, do all Policemen/women have to know how to swim before they are hired or to they get training? I cant see this being a prerequisite for the job surely?

With an able body how can it be possibly to not be able to swim?

[Webbo]

It's one of my biggest fears, feeling pressure to risk my own life attempting to save someone I know nothing about.

But your not a PCSO.

[Fez of Mahrez]

But your not a PCSO.

That is correct.

PCSOs aren't exactly lifeguards though.

[Geo V]

With an able body how can it be possibly to not be able to swim?

Just like driving a car, some people have never bothered to learn. On this occasion though the water was apparently 6 foot deep so I agree they should have at least tried as its not so deep but the water does hold fears for some people just like heights does for others. Im certainly not making excuses for peoples phobias nor am I trying to defend these people who didnt at least jump in and give it ago but we dont as yet know why they didnt even attempt to rescue the kids.

[Milky]

Sorry, but not jumping in to try and save the lad is pure cowardice in my eyes.

[Raj]

With an able body how can it be possibly to not be able to swim?

Sorry, but not jumping in to try and save the lad is pure cowardice in my eyes.

I can only swim about 6 feet!

I get scared when i see vasts amounts of water i.e River,sea etc...even a swimming pool

Would you expect me to jump in and try and save the kids,knowing full well i'd have probably drowned too?

[Fez of Mahrez]

I can only swim about 6 feet!

I get scared when i see vasts amounts of water i.e River,sea etc...even a swimming pool

Would you expect me to jump in and try and save the kids,knowing full well i'd have probably drowned too?

Well...

:D

[Kent Fox]

I can only swim about 6 feet!

I get scared when i see vasts amounts of water i.e River,sea etc...even a swimming pool

Would you expect me to jump in and try and save the kids,knowing full well i'd have probably drowned too?

Would you jump in to try and save your own kids??

A bit like Fezter, I have a fear of seeing something like this and not wanting to react. I have a daughter to consider and I wouldn't want to lose my life saving a stranger when the result is my daughter loses me.

And I'm dead!

[Milky]

I can only swim about 6 feet!

I get scared when i see vasts amounts of water i.e River,sea etc...even a swimming pool

Would you expect me to jump in and try and save the kids,knowing full well i'd have probably drowned too?

:laugh: That's pretty pathetic really. Sort yourself out man!

So, are we assuming that both of these officers have the same problem? How unlucky can the young lad get.

We're not asking them to jump into a choppy ocean here. It's just a pond!

[Raj]

I think unless you are in that situation you cant really say can you.

Having thought about it,if it was someone you loved and cared about you probably would still try and help no matter what the consequences.

If it was my Mrs in there i would jump in and save her.

But she is a better swimmer than me and would end up saving me!

[Webbo]

What if these PCSO's saw someone being beaten up by a bunch of thugs, should they avoid intervening then in case they got hurt?

If not what is the point of them? All they are , are glorified traffic wardens, called something else to try and con the public that the government is doing something about crime.

[Milky]

Why didn't those anglers go back in for the lad

[Daggers]

I question the motives of someone who wants to dress up like a cop but doesn't accept the responsibility that comes with it.

Not had the correct training my bloody arse.

[Thracian]

Personally, I think that Police Community Support Officers are a waste of time and a huge con on the public. They aren't coppers.

Link

I wonder how they'd have felt if it was their kid that PCSO's watched drowning...or any ordinary adults for that matter.

[Milky]

I've seen the "Pond", and it's massive! I'd call it a lake!

If they didn't know where the kid was when they arrived, it really would be like searching for a needle in a haystack.

I say blame the parents. What the hell were those two young kids doing out on their own! Stupid parents! Trying to shift the blame.

Community support officers (PCSOs) "did not stand by and watch" a 10-year-old boy drown, a police chief has said.

Asst Ch Con Dave Thompson defended the two PCSOs actions after the death of Jordon Lyon, who drowned in a pond in Wigan, Greater Manchester on 3 May.

He said officers were not expected to rescue people from water and they could not see where Jordon was in the lake.

[Joe.]

If you can swim, you would try and save that child for sure. I know I couldn't stand and watch a yound child die when I know it could potentially be stopped.

[Daggers]

From a serving WPC's blog...

I had written a superbly amusing post about the PCSOs who watched a boy drown while a "real" police officer and some fishermen jumped in to try and save him. Then I read this defence of them. I still think someone else might have dived in anyway, but have decided not to post my original attack as I wasn't there and don't know.

However it did get me thinking (now there's a surprise). We have a bit of an ongoing problem in Blandmore with PCSOs "interpreting" their job role differently to their police colleagues.

The role of the PCSO is best described by stating what they DON'T do, ie:

* Confrontation.

* Investigation of crime.

* First Aid.

* Capture of criminals.

* Assistance of police officers in trouble.

* Transport of prisoners.

* Checking out suspicious incidents.

* Dealing with "major incidents" (definition of which seems to have been redefined by Det Ch Insp Phil Owen of Wigan Police).

The problem with poor Jordon (above, drowned), seems to be that his parents think because PCSOs look and sound and cycle in the manner of police officers, that they possess the same powers and training AS police officers.

It never ceases to amaze me how naive Mops (Members of Public) can be. They need to understand that when you undergo the PCSO training, you not only learn exhaustively about waving your arms at cars, putting leaflets through doors and the fine art of Risk Assessment, but this information actually REPLACES basic human knowledge that you may have possessed before. Such as the instinct to jump into a pond to save a child.

In any event, half the time the problem with Blandshire's PCSOs is that they desperately WANT to be real police officers and get themselves in all kinds of sticky situations. Why on earth they don't just put in their applications I have no idea.

It might be something to do with real police having to have reached puberty.

[The Reverend]

From a serving WPC's blog...

So WTF do they do??

[Daggers]

So WTF do they do??

1. Earn between £17,000 and £20,000 p/a

2. Look like real police

3. Cycle about a bit

4. Errrr....

5. That's about it, really.

[stez]

I've seen the "Pond", and it's massive! I'd call it a lake!

If they didn't know where the kid was when they arrived, it really would be like searching for a needle in a haystack.

I say blame the parents. What the hell were those two young kids doing out on their own! Stupid parents! Trying to shift the blame.

Community support officers (PCSOs) "did not stand by and watch" a 10-year-old boy drown, a police chief has said.

Asst Ch Con Dave Thompson defended the two PCSOs actions after the death of Jordon Lyon, who drowned in a pond in Wigan, Greater Manchester on 3 May.

He said officers were not expected to rescue people from water and they could not see where Jordon was in the lake.

except the lads step dad came along 2 minutes later waded straight in and dragged him out!

i want to know why the fishermen didn't do anything either?

also i was always down the brook when i was a kid, if my mum knew she'd flipped, so i never told her, it's what kids do.

1. Earn between £17,000 and £20,000 p/a

2. Look like real police

3. Cycle about a bit

4. Errrr....

5. That's about it, really.

also, round here, they drive around like they have shit under their nose and have some sort of authority. had the misfortune to help one out a few weeks ago; ungrateful cow.