Trouble in Italy ... again ...

[Jordan]

Just heard Inter-Lazio is postponed due to a fan's death and all Serie A matches are to be delayed for 10 minutes

[Alexikokopops]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7089485.stm

[Koke]

So it was a clash between Juve fans and Lazio fans, when Lazio were travelling to Inter Milan and Juve at the same time were travelling to an away game at Parma.

Sad news really.

[Jordan]

News of the violence apparently sparked clashes between fans and police in Bergamo, where Atalanta were playing Juventus.

Some people really don't have much in their skulls...

[Durnerz]

Yet they still claim its us who has the problem whenever Hooliganism gets a mention.

Italy needs to sort itself out, however when its as corrupt as it is it will take a long time if anything is ever done.

RIP to the Lazio fan.

[Floating Fox]

Plain stupid, they had fantastic atmospheres and a decent system, but idiots like them ruin it all and it won't be long before they end up the same as here

[purpleronnie]

The police are so ill prepared over there that I cant see things getting better its been going on for so long and nothing has changed.

Apparantly the fan killed was sitting in his car when he was shot by police by mistake.

[Alexikokopops]

The police are so ill prepared over there that I cant see things getting better its been going on for so long and nothing has changed.

Apparantly the fan killed was sitting in his car when he was shot by police by mistake.

It mentions the police doing the shooting here

http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/nov11g.html

[David O'Leary]

Jesus Christ seems like there's a death every week at a footy match over there

[kev_lcfc4life]

Jesus Christ seems like there's a death every week at a footy match over there

eveything happens over there

[lcfc_jme]

Said state of affairs over there, one which shows no sign of being controlled any time soon. Yet when we go away, we're the ones treated like animals.

[Darkzzz_]

My girlfriend is italian... her family are massive followers of Italian football obviously, and i am too.... She is a massive juve fan, and obviously leicester......

anyway... just to follow up on some comments here... the football is the thing i feel sorry for there as it is great, prob the best in europe at the moment but its fans let it down.... not all.... but most....

Yes it is true they are so behind over there on the organisation of the policing at these games.... they really need to get to grips with that.... Its like here... if we didnt have such tight laws then we would still be in the same situation....

I hate to see people using the Italian past of there " corruptions" in times like this.... Remember, we have problems here too.... but the FA are good at sweeping it under the carpet.... Thats why it doesnt come out much!!

My condolances to the family of the fan killed whom by the way wasnt involved in hooliganism.... just caught up in it!!!

[Milky]

"The fan may have been killed by a warning shot"

bullshit, he's popped him square in the face.

[Ultra]

The cop may be charged with manslaughter.

And all lower league games in Italy next weekend have been cancelled.

All it needs now is for Scotland to knock Italy out of Euro 2008 and they will have a crisis which will make England's look like a tea party!

[Floating Fox]

A member on StandUpSitDown Posted this, awesome read:

" I had the pleasure of being in Rome over the weekend and was due to go to the Roma - Cagliari match on Sunday night. I was to meet a friend at the stadium at 19:30, an hour before kick off. Whilst in a street near Piazza del Popolo at 17:55, shortly before I was going to get the tram to the stadium I received a phone call. 'Have you heard what has happened? The police have killed a Lazio supporter and the game has been suspended. I'm very sorry'. I still have my unused match ticket in my wallet. It's the symbol I now carry of everything that is wrong with this situation.

Having been able to see the reports of both the Italian and English media it has been interesting to compare and contrast the two. The English media seem to have sensationalised the entire event, reporting only part of the facts of what happened at stadiums across the country that day. When I returned on Monday night and saw the reaction in this country it became quickly apparent that if you have only seen the reaction of the British press to the events then you have very little understanding of what happened. Sadly, there also seems to be an arrogant element in the British media who are almost gloating about the problems in Italy compared to the peaceful stadiums we see in this country. The press are very quick in this country to publish stories of violence yet neglect every other aspect of the Ultra lifestyle. There are never pictures of the choreographies displayed in the stadiums or the social events that are organised by the groups. When you read about Ultras you read about violence and nothing else, not the money raised by Sampdoria Ultras for local charities, nor the Brescia Ultras visiting local schools and colleges to give lectures on the mentality of what it means to be an Ultra. But we all know this wouldn't sell newspapers

On Sunday evening there were multiple TV channels covering the event, with every football pundit offering his or her opinions on the events and the possible solutions. The next days newspapers carried pages and pages on Gabriele and the circumstances that led to his brutal death. Il Romanista, a daily paper dedicated to AS Roma cried 'BASTA' across its front page, ENOUGH. On the back page there are messages of condolence from Roma supporters to a follower of their arch rivals.

One of the saddest elements of Sunday is that the games in the afternoon were allowed to take place. All games should have been suspended as a mark of respect and to give people a chance to reflect on exactly what has and still is happening, not play on like it hadn't happened. After the death of Raciti, the police officer killed in Catania in February, the fixtures were suspended immediately and this has led to many accusations that a supporters life is not worth that of a police officers. It is this that has angered many people.

The actions of the Atalanta Ultras inside the stadium in Bergamo, in my opinion, were correct and in proportion to the days events. The game should never have started, so when it did, as the authorities clearly weren't going to take the decision to mark the death of an innocent supporter with respect, the Ultras stepped in. The violence inside the stadium wasn't, as reported in some elements of the press, violence for violence sake but the reaction of a group of people dismayed that football could continue as normal only hours after the death. It was an attempt to put a stop to a farcical match and when the supporters were able to talk to the players they agreed to walk off the pitch and stop playing. As they did, many in the stadium applauded their actions. These actions take on even greater significance when you take into account the deep hatred between the Ultras of Atalanta and Lazio. Outside the stadium, there were again confrontations between supporters and police. Outside the away sector police charged at the Milan supporters, indiscriminately beating the unfortunate ones who crossed their paths. Italian TV showed one supporter, grey haired and in his 50's with a large bruise down one side of his face. He hardly carried the look of a trouble maker and it proves yet again that the police there haven't learnt from the mistakes of the past.

Earlier this year the authorities in Italy brought in a whole host of new regulations, most of which were ridiculous and targeted not the root of the problem, but the positive side of the Ultra support that should be encouraged. The new laws saw bans on supporters bringing flags to the stadiums unless they faxed a photo of them to the police 48 hours before a game. You can no longer take a flag with colours of teams who aren't playing into the stadium, meaning fans can no longer show off friendships betweeen groups as in the past. More fences are now seen in stadiums at a time when more and more of the problems are being caused away from the arenas, not in them.

To solve the problem in Italy everyone has to be involved. The supporters won't respect new draconian measures if they are simply forced upon them, and this runs the risk of making an extremely delicate situation even worse. The authorities, the clubs and the supporters have to be involved together to be part of the change. Everyone must have their say and their opinion heard before action is taken to implement regulations. The English model is talked about a lot in Italy but simply wouldn't work for a number of reasons. It has taken away the soul of football in this country and it would be tragic if that spread elsewhere. The German model of incorporating supporters into the clubs yet at the same time letting them have their independence and freedom is a far more realistic and sustainable option, and is one that should be the aim for footballing countries all over the world if we're to ressurect a diseased sport. "

[leedslad]

Firstly, my deepest sympathy's on the death of a fellow supporter.

That's a good read and I agree that the British media has it's own agenda which creates hyperbole, but I don't agree that stadium regulations are/have tak(ing/en) the soul out of English football. I think it's more the commercialisation. Elland Road certainly isn't lacking in 'soul', I don't think any stadiums are in the lower leagues- where the influx of money into the game has the least affect.

[Ultra]

The press are very quick in this country to publish stories of violence yet neglect every other aspect of the Ultra lifestyle. There are never pictures of the choreographies displayed in the stadiums or the social events that are organised by the groups. When you read about Ultras you read about violence and nothing else, not the money raised by Sampdoria Ultras for local charities, nor the Brescia Ultras visiting local schools and colleges to give lectures on the mentality of what it means to be an Ultra

Couldn't agree more..

I met the Brescia Ultras in the 80s, at a Serie B relegation playoff. The game was almost insufferably dire, worse even than the City games of that era (David Pleat was at the helm) or now, yet the Ultras never stopped singing throughout the game. Their support was rewarded with a victory in the penalty shootout.

They're a top bunch whose influence extends way beyond Italy..

[Simi]

Yeah that is a really great read.

One day I hope the media will actually let 'the other side' of football raise their opinions and be heard. Quite frankly I'm sick of everything that is wrong in football being blamed on the fans. I understand that they are far from perfect, but reading that article it makes me so mad that such a simple situation was not dealt with.

Football continues to carry on having it's heart ripped out. England is Fifas bitch more and more everyday. People like Stuart Pearce coming out and saying we're massive force in football is a complete farce. We are not. Our country is a joke. Health and Saftey everywhere we go, all to look after the big money spinners of the football clubs and peoples investments.

Sounds like the Italian Ultras are going to be clamped down on big style sooner or later, which will be a great shame. When the powers that be start to actually listen to the safe standing debate and not continuously knock it back with the Hillsbrough disaster. I'd love to hear the reasons they come out with rejecting it. We only need to take one look at the Germans to see that this can be a success, a country that know has a great repuation for looking after it's hardcore fans. Whereas the English clubs continue to shit on the hardcore fans that have apparently being 'the heart of the club'.

What a load of shit.

I know I've gone down a side track but it really pisses me off.

RIP to the fan, absolutely tragic.

[Manwell Pablo]

A member on StandUpSitDown Posted this, awesome read:

That is actually a cracking read and I agree with every word. Espeically what was said about that Atalanta supporters.

[Floating Fox]

That is actually a cracking read and I agree with every word. Espeically what was said about that Atalanta supporters.

Glad you liked it!

[purpleronnie]

Firstly, my deepest sympathy's on the death of a fellow supporter.

That's a good read and I agree that the British media has it's own agenda which creates hyperbole, but I don't agree that stadium regulations are/have tak(ing/en) the soul out of English football. I think it's more the commercialisation. Elland Road certainly isn't lacking in 'soul', I don't think any stadiums are in the lower leagues- where the influx of money into the game has the least affect.

You don't think making fans to sit down makes a difference?