road safety in general

[Thracian]

I drove that way everyday for just over 2 years up until July 2007 to go to Melton College. I saw the occassional car left at the side of a road after a small accident but thankfully never witnessed anything along those lines. Those roads leading to Melton can be quite dangerous, especially in wet weather. Horrible to hear about incidents like this, especially when its so close to home.

Awful but you couldn't be surprised by anything that happens on the roads approaching Melton.

They're not suitable for stage coaches never mind modern cars.

It often takes as long to get to the far side of Melton from West Leicestershire as it does to get to the outskirts of London.

What with buses, heavy lorries and farm machinery, the roads in and out are one long bind and totally inadequate.

[Thracian]

Ah that's awful

Every time we go to Leicester we have to use this road, it's shite to drive on sometimes. They have already reduced the speed limit after a number of fatalities on this stretch, I don't know how many times they can reduce it without causing more accidents.

If the can pay millions to people who'd like to see this country destroyed they could build a proper road. It's been a death trap for decades and it is a pity those responsible for persevering with such a sub-standard road aren't made to be personally responsible. It would sure focus their sodding attention.

If an individual built anything that dangerous they would be held accountable, no question.

[stez]

If the can pay millions to people who'd like to see this country destroyed they could build a proper road. It's been a death trap for decades and it is a pity those responsible for persevering with such a sub-standard road aren't made to be personally responsible. It would sure focus their sodding attention.

If an individual built anything that dangerous they would be held accountable, no question.

never heard of driving to the conditions?

[Thracian]

never heard of driving to the conditions?

You can just as easily say anyone who gets killed or injured as a result of a mistake or misjudgement is a fecking idiot.

But if I owned a factory or ran a building site I'd be expected and even obliged to make it as idiot proof as possible.

A point that doesn't seem to apply to whoever's responsible for roads around Melton. And hasn't applied for as long as I can remember.

Are you telling me that those six people would have been killed if the road had been a dual carriageway or a road with ample opportunity to overtake?

Six young people have died. Doubtless your kids will be different but in my experience young people do make mistakes. Especially groups of young people in the same car at the same time.

But proper roads just might help to protect them from themselves.

And so might wiser laws and a properly structured driving test come to that.

[stez]

You can just as easily say anyone who gets killed or injured as a result of a mistake or misjudgement is a fooking idiot.

But if I owned a factory or ran a building site I'd be expected and even obliged to make it as idiot proof as possible.

A point that doesn't seem to apply to whoever's responsible for roads around Melton. And hasn't applied for as long as I can remember.

Are you telling me that those six people would have been killed if the road had been a dual carriageway or a road with ample opportunity to overtake?

i'm not saying anything about the mondeos occupants, because, like you, i don't know what happened. bad driving, his brakes could've failed, his steering could've locked, anything.

are you telling me no one has ever died on a dual carriage way?

i drive the roads of melton every week, and the roads of lincolnshire (which are a damn sight worse) every day and you drive to the conditions....winding road = slow down a bit. if you're stuck behind someone = don't get wound up, wait, overtake when safe, i mean all this was covered when i was learning to drive.

[stez]

Six young people have died. Doubtless your kids will be different but in my experience young people do make mistakes. Especially groups of young people in the same car at the same time.

But proper roads just might help to protect them from themselves.

And so might wiser laws and a properly structured driving test come to that.

(for the edit)

do you have any idea how much it would cost to turn every B road into an A road?

again i'm not saying anything about the drivers driving, as i don't know what happened.

and to bring my child into this wasn't called for thank you.

[Thracian]

i'm not saying anything about the mondeos occupants, because, like you, i don't know what happened. bad driving, his brakes could've failed, his steering could've locked, anything.

are you telling me no one has ever died on a dual carriage way?

i drive the roads of melton every week, and the roads of lincolnshire (which are a damn sight worse) every day and you drive to the conditions....winding road = slow down a bit. if you're stuck behind someone = don't get wound up, wait, overtake when safe, i mean all this was covered when i was learning to drive.

No I'm not saying people don't get killed on a dual carriageway or a supposedly safe building site or factory. But that's no exucse for the authorities not doing what factory owners would be expected to do in trying to provide a reasonably safe environment.

And I've driven that Melton road stacks of times. The whole road is totally inadequate for modern motoring and will doubtless remain so while there are people who make light of its inadequacies.

Your theories on driving are well founded. But the reality doesn't work like that. People do get wound up being behind slow-moving tractors or lorries for mile upon endless mile. And in the end some will take risks.

And seeing as everyone knows that then it's just like owning a gravel pit. Seeing as you know that people will try swim there, you put a fence around it and post warning notices. No it doesn't stop the determined but it does mean you've done as much as you reasonably can to protect the adventurous or foolhardy from themselves.

With roads I would say a minimum requirement is to make proper and regular overtaking opportunities so that traffic is not obliged to pile up behind seriously slow moving vehicles as you have all the time on the Melton road mentioned.

[Hullfox]

How the fukk does yet another thread get hijacked by the same individual deflecting attention from the real tragedy?

All of a sudden he's campaigning for road safety literally weeks after refusing to condemn drink driving.

Many families have been ripped apart by this tragedy and that has to be more important than any individual's rants on here.

[stez]

No I'm not saying people don't get killed on a dual carriageway or a supposedly safe building site or factory. But that's no exucse for the authorities not doing what factory owners would be expected to do in trying to provide a reasonably safe environment.

And I've driven that Melton road stacks of times. The whole road is totally inadequate for modern motoring and will doubtless remain so while there are people who make light of its inadequacies.

Your theories on driving are well founded. But the reality doesn't work like that. People do get wound up being behind slow-moving tractors or lorries for mile upon endless mile. And in the end some will take risks.

And seeing as everyone knows that then it's just like owning a gravel pit. Seeing as you know that people will try swim there, you put a fence around it and post warning notices. No it doesn't stop the determined but it does mean you've done as much as you reasonably can to protect the adventurous or foolhardy from themselves.

With roads I would say a minimum requirement is to make proper and regular overtaking opportunities so that traffic is not obliged to pile up behind seriously slow moving vehicles as you have all the time on the Melton road mentioned.

thanks for patronising me there.

however, i wouldn't disagree about roads being as safe as possible, but so must the drivers be, i'm no angel, especially in the past, but as the traffic levels have increased, in the 16 years i've been driving, i have slowed down and to blame the 'authorities' for someone driving badly,(again i'm not saying this is what happened with the driver of the mondeo, as i don't know what happened) well it doesn't work for me i'm afraid; if i were to drive like a tit, because i was stuck behind a tractor, and ended up injuring or killing myself, or somebody else, it would be no ones fault but mine. to not accept the blame would be cowardly.

again, do you know what it would cost to improve the road from the end of the rearsby by-pass to melton? and then every single other road, deemed 'sub-standard'?

anyhow, like has been said, no one knows what happened to these poor kids, and why the accident occurred.

[Thracian]

thanks for patronising me there.

however, i wouldn't disagree about roads being as safe as possible, but so must the drivers be, i'm no angel, especially in the past, but as the traffic levels have increased, in the 16 years i've been driving, i have slowed down and to blame the 'authorities' for someone driving badly,(again i'm not saying this is what happened with the driver of the mondeo, as i don't know what happened) well it doesn't work for me i'm afraid; if i were to drive like a tit, because i was stuck behind a tractor, and ended up injuring or killing myself, or somebody else, it would be no ones fault but mine. to not accept the blame would be cowardly.

again, do you know what it would cost to improve the road from the end of the rearsby by-pass to melton? and then every single other road, deemed 'sub-standard'?

anyhow, like has been said, no one knows what happened to these poor kids, and why the accident occurred.

Where did I blame the authorities for someone driving badly? I haven't commented on the accident itself - only observed that bad accidents are inevitable on that road because it is totally inadequate for a main road.

As for the cost of improving any road, and especially a road as bad as that Melton road it would be a fraction of the money wasted on any number of things that I certainly don't approve of.

Indeed it would probably be less than we spend on any one day sustaining the Iraq/Afghanistan conflicts.

[Head Honcho]

thanks for patronising me there.

however, i wouldn't disagree about roads being as safe as possible, but so must the drivers be, i'm no angel, especially in the past, but as the traffic levels have increased, in the 16 years i've been driving, i have slowed down and to blame the 'authorities' for someone driving badly,(again i'm not saying this is what happened with the driver of the mondeo, as i don't know what happened) well it doesn't work for me i'm afraid; if i were to drive like a tit, because i was stuck behind a tractor, and ended up injuring or killing myself, or somebody else, it would be no ones fault but mine. to not accept the blame would be cowardly.

again, do you know what it would cost to improve the road from the end of the rearsby by-pass to melton? and then every single other road, deemed 'sub-standard'?

anyhow, like has been said, no one knows what happened to these poor kids, and why the accident occurred.

I agree with you.

I'm just back in Newport from Sheffield and the driving I witnessed o the way home was dreadful not to mention the amount of people on their phones.

I was in the back and everytime we slowed down there'd be some huge juggernaut banging on the brakes I was for the first time a bit shakey thinking that before long they'll be joining me in the back.

It not surprising though because on a 9 hours round trip I probably saw half a dozen cops-ridiculous!

[stez]

Where did I blame the authorities for someone driving badly? I haven't commented on the accident itself - only observed that bad accidents are inevitable on that road because it is totally inadequate for a main road.

As for the cost of improving any road, and especially a road as bad as that Melton road it would be a fraction of the money wasted on any number of things that I certainly don't approve of.

Indeed it would probably be less than we spend on any one day sustaining the Iraq/Afghanistan conflicts.

i know you enjoy condescending people.

if somebody isn't driving to the conditions, they are driving badly and you state the roads are in a bad state because of the authorities not upgrading them.

i also haven't commented on the accident(well the cause) as i don't know, you don't know, i doubt the lorry driver knows. all i know is 6 families are mourning.

[Thracian]

How the fukk does yet another thread get hijacked by the same individual deflecting attention from the real tragedy?

All of a sudden he's campaigning for road safety literally weeks after refusing to condemn drink driving.

Many families have been ripped apart by this tragedy and that has to be more important than any individual's rants on here.

Yes, and why it takes yet another group of families to be ripped apart before something is done about such a lousy road is beyond comprehension. Cos a little research would show there's been stacks of accidents on the road in question.

And what the hell a sub-standard road has to do with drink driving God only knows.

Furthermore, and as you well know, what I "condemn" is people automatically thinking of a drink driver as being principally responsible for an accident when the accident might well have been caused by a perfectly sober driver.

As is perfectly obvious to anyone who drives and takes even a passing interest in what goes on around him even on a daily basis.

[Katy]

How the fukk does yet another thread get hijacked by the same individual deflecting attention from the real tragedy?

All of a sudden he's campaigning for road safety literally weeks after refusing to condemn drink driving.

Many families have been ripped apart by this tragedy and that has to be more important than any individual's rants on here.

Quite!

And it's the same old same old whenever a thread like this starts.

Not so long ago I received a patronising PM telling me not to judge Luke McCormick (even though I wasn't) and now the very same sender of the PM is doing the same thing here. Nobody knows what happened and as Stez said, it could've been anything that caused it - we don't know, it's not for us to say. Just getting a tad sick of the holier than thou shit that some people chat on here and the fact they use that holier than thou shit whenever terrible things like this happen.

[Flynny]

Furthermore, and as you well know, what I "condemn" is people automatically thinking of a drink driver as being principally responsible for an accident when the accident might well have been caused by a perfectly sober driver.

Probably because its much more likely? It's the same as unqualified drivers, if they cause a crash everyone will automatically blame them because thats probably who it is - they shouldn't have been on the fucking road.

I shouldn't have replied to this here. Lets keep this out of here actually in respect of those no longer among us. I don't care how hokey that might sound.

[Thracian]

Quite!

And it's the same old same old whenever a thread like this starts.

Not so long ago I received a patronising PM telling me not to judge Luke McCormick (even though I wasn't) and now the very same sender of the PM is doing the same thing here. Nobody knows what happened and as Stez said, it could've been anything that caused it - we don't know, it's not for us to say. Just getting a tad sick of the holier than thou shit that some people chat on here and the fact they use that holier than thou shit whenever terrible things like this happen.

What's this, a Swan Lestas collective reply?

No-one is judging what happened or even offering the slightest hint of judgement.

But in case it's still not got through to you I'll make the point again - accidents have happened and can continue to be expected on that road because it is so dangerous and so inadequate.

As for Luke McCormick the fact remains that while he may yet be shown to have been over the drink-driving limit and may yet be shown to have been speeding he still might not have been the principal cause of the accident.

For instance the other driver might have moved out into his path without looking.

And bearing that possibility in mind I thought it might be nice to hear the evidence of the trial before McCormick became a victim of the FoxesTalk kangeroo court.

[Katy]

What's this, a Swan Lestas collective reply?

No-one is judging what happened or even offering the slightest hint of judgement.

But in case it's still not got through to you I'll make the point again - accidents have happened and can continue to be expected on that road because it is so dangerous and so inadequate.

As for Luke McCormick the fact remains that while he may yet be shown to have been over the drink-driving limit and may yet be shown to have been speeding he still might not have been the principal cause of the accident.

For instance the other driver might have moved out into his path without looking.

And bearing that possibility in mind I thought it might be nice to hear the evidence of the trial before McCormick became a victim of the FoxesTalk kangeroo court.

Don't have a clue what you're on about chum.

We've already been asked to shift this sort of chat out of the Melton thread so why are you posting in it again?

I have my own opinions, I don't need lumping into this imaginary supergroup you seem to think exists.

I don't need things 'getting through to me' thanks, particularly by you. I'm fully aware of how cars and roads work.

Next!

[Thracian]

Probably because its much more likely? It's the same as unqualified drivers, if they cause a crash everyone will automatically blame them because thats probably who it is - they shouldn't have been on the fucking road.

I shouldn't have replied to this here. Lets keep this out of here actually in respect of those no longer among us. I don't care how hokey that might sound.

There are lots of people shouldn't be on the road - and a good many of them are sober, have licences and insurance.

[Flynny]

There are lots of people shouldn't be on the road - and a good many of them are sober, have licences and insurance.

Brown people?

(I don't actually think you're racist or owt but I couldn't resist at least pretending to be controversial . Clarify though please.)

[Thracian]

Brown people?

(I don't actually think you're racist or owt but I couldn't resist at least pretending to be controversial . Clarify though please.)

Just recently:

========

a) The bus driver on the Melton road who pulled out from a lay-by-type bus-stop straight into the path of a lorry causing the truck driver to slam on his brakes and swerve violently onto the offside of the road.

b) The artic driver who pulled across two lanes into the fast lane of of motorway without either looking or signalling, so nearly causing an accident.

c) Three people - all women - I've seen today using their mobile phones while driving including one who was negotiating a traffic island in the rush hour with one hand and no sodding idea at all.

d) The artic driver who parked on a main road outside a garage totally obscuring the view of everyone leaving the garage to join the main flow of traffic seemingly because he couldn't be bothered to walk 50 yards back from a lay-by.

And that really is merely a sample.

[Thracian]

(for the edit)

do you have any idea how much it would cost to turn every B road into an A road?

again i'm not saying anything about the drivers driving, as i don't know what happened.

and to bring my child into this wasn't called for thank you.

I don't remember mentioning every road at all. The Melton road is a main road and a notoriously bad one.

[Alexikokopops]

I don't remember mentioning every road at all. The Melton road is a main road and a notoriously bad one.

But there are so many roads that're worst than the Melton road (the 12 "Red Routes" in Lincolnshire for a start, a county which has about 1 dual carriageway). By raging about how the authorities haven't sorted out the Melton road even though it's dangerous there is the implication that all roads that're as dangerous as it should be sorted out too. Hence Stez's point.

[purpleronnie]

I think those hot spots should have something done to stop further accidents and a lot of them already have. Britain has one of the lowest accidents rates in europe, have to say I cant stand driving in england, they have recently put up sleeping policemen near my old house and they are so big you almost have to stop the car to drive over them, and then theres cameras every 100 yards. The roads around my old house were perfectly safe, I'm all for making roads safer but there should be more thought about where these safety measures are applied.

[MikeyT]

Obviously any road in general is dangerous and quite clearly judging on recent events some more than others. For the most part i see people driving around safely, but then again obviously there are a small minority who drive around like complete idiots, its those ones that we have to worry about. Personally i think the age for driving should be raised, as for me personally, i always see the younger ones driving around like idiots thinking they are bad ass in ther Vauxhall Nova's and such like. What they dont seem to grasp is, is that they arent impressing anyone, they just look like total irresponsible morons, and i cant believe they were give licences in the first place. Its shocking how some of them drive around and im suprised there arent more accidents than there are already. Im not saying they are all like that as im positive they arent. If people learned to slow down and take driving more responsibly, i dare say the number of accidents and fatalities would decrease. Oh and why cant people learn to indicate!!!!!Anyhoo rant over!

[Jon the Hat]

Do I hear the Daily Mail "Something must be done!" immediate reposnse to an accident? We want to pay less tax but have better roads, drive faster cars and expect not to have to drive with patience, and demand populist action whenever a tragic accident occurs. Running a council budget let alone a country as response to single events and the public outcry to them is nonsense, as it the cuase of many a regretable policy or action.

Thracian, your argument that drinking may not have been the primary cause of Luke McCormick's accident applies just as well here. Many people get home safely on this road every day, as evidenced anecodotally on here... does this not point to another deciding factor being in play? Speculation as to what that might have been is not helpful or appropriate now, but clearly the it is entirely possible to safely drive down this road.